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FZ50GTR Suspension Frequency
(62 posts, started )
Quote from MagicMarker27 :In your opinon, if Im running Blackwood Gp in the FZR with a lsd set at 40/60, what am I expecting? When I had it at 50/80 I could not turn easy, such as the end of the back straight. Also in that corner under braking, the car would not turn. I have run many many laps there, and have had it set at 50/80 and can turn 1:08.xx laps pretty regularly. All things being equal, including my driving, what would say 20/40 lead to? Or 70/30? Having to modulate the throttle more while exiting or accel. away from the apex? I have seen what the hotlap sets are, and can not get a handle on the locks. I know Bob always says run what makes it comfortable to drive, and I have, even understanding what subtle changes in the rebound and bumps have done for cornering grip. Is it really just a lack of experience that I cant run 1:06.xx on that track, or is it more along setups still? I also run about 9/18 on downforce. Hot laps sets are lower, but when you reduce downforce you also have to make susp changes to compensate for the reductions. Not sure what Im actually looking for for an answer, maybe more or less Im just looking to get some feedback from others that have been where Im at now, and to see where to turn to next.

Well there's a lot of factors there so I just can't suggest what diff settings you may want. Thing about the downforce cars is that it just adds a whole lot of complication to the setup.

I always feel there are no simple answers and no shortcuts. So your best bet is to work on being able to drive consistently (within a couple of tenths each lap) then when you make you diff and downforce changes you should be able to see any improvement in time.

I can say that increasing the brake locking on a diff will make the car harder to turn in though.

I'd say get the car nice and stable with the diff settings - not too much power locking and a fair bit of brake locking, then return to your downforce and suspension settings and work through it as an iterative process. It takes time though.

TBH I've never had huge success setting up the FZR so probably not the best person to ask.
There was a quote from Carroll Smith on Richard Nunnini's GPL Foolishness site (now defunct unfortunately)... I can't remember it exactly, but it was along the lines that he couldn't understand why you'd want anything but an open diff on the coast side. It lets the car auto-rotate and correct with the wheel... don't steer the car around the corner.

It's something I tried and instantly disliked in GPL... I was slower and kept falling off the track. That was back when I'd jump on any pedal I needed. It took a while, but perservering with a loose coast taught me smoothness and how to come off the brake. And I got faster.

Since then, in any sim that supports separate coast/power diffs, the first thing I do is set them at extremes... coast as open as possible, power as locked as possible, and work from there. Only once I'm happy with the coast and turn-in do I start looking at tweaking the power side.

Each to their own!
Doesn't locking on the coast side give you a form of psuedo anti-lock on the driven wheels, as the rotating wheel will try and cause the less loaded (and more prone to locking wheel) to turn also.

Obviously too much is a bad thing (except in LFS where locked diffs rule supreme ), but as little as possible might also be shooting yourself in your foot.

Edit much later: Just another little shout about preloading on the diff for Scawen. Pretty please. And whilst your at it don't allow locked diffs on the cars that shouldn't have them, just like you're gonna disallow h-shifters on the single seaters. If we can get everyone using clutch pack diffs with preload then the world will be a better place. Incompatible patch stuff I suspect however.
Agreed, I was just highlighting where I set my starting point. As it has such an obvious affect on the handling, I find it worthwhile working through the ranges... I just prefer to start from a loose aspect and tighten it up as needed.

It's pretty rare for me to run around with coast > power though.
Quote from tristancliffe :except in LFS where locked diffs rule supreme

im sure the only reason why theyre all that popular is the lack of preload ... that revs dropping off/wheels locking under braking and shifting behaviour can send you into a spin in no time
locked diffs are a much safer albeit a lot more understeery option most racers go for

oh and while were asking for preaload ... please dont take away the option to drive without preload on the diff
A little coast lock is useful, as it will help stability with little or no detrement to cornering speed. Too much basically adds understeer which will just slow you down - but if you can't keep the car in a straight line, it is necessary. Although, that's mainly because some other part of the setup is borked.

Wasn't this thread to do with suspension? Oh well...
Quote from Bob Smith :A little coast lock is useful, as it will help stability with little or no detrement to cornering speed. Too much basically adds understeer which will just slow you down - but if you can't keep the car in a straight line, it is necessary. Although, that's mainly because some other part of the setup is borked.

Wasn't this thread to do with suspension? Oh well...

Yes, I do believe it was . But why start another thread?
Quote from MagicMarker27 :Yes, I do believe it was . But why start another thread?

So people don't read through a thread trying to find more posts on suspension but only find stuff on diffs, I would say
Quote from MagicMarker27 :In your opinon, if Im running Blackwood Gp in the FZR with a lsd set at 40/60, what am I expecting? When I had it at 50/80 I could not turn easy, such as the end of the back straight. Also in that corner under braking, the car would not turn. I have run many many laps there, and have had it set at 50/80 and can turn 1:08.xx laps pretty regularly. All things being equal, including my driving, what would say 20/40 lead to? Or 70/30? Having to modulate the throttle more while exiting or accel. away from the apex? I have seen what the hotlap sets are, and can not get a handle on the locks. I know Bob always says run what makes it comfortable to drive, and I have, even understanding what subtle changes in the rebound and bumps have done for cornering grip. Is it really just a lack of experience that I cant run 1:06.xx on that track, or is it more along setups still? I also run about 9/18 on downforce. Hot laps sets are lower, but when you reduce downforce you also have to make susp changes to compensate for the reductions. Not sure what Im actually looking for for an answer, maybe more or less Im just looking to get some feedback from others that have been where Im at now, and to see where to turn to next.

Looking at that the first thing I would have said was your front downforce was a bit on the high side. Although not by much for Blackwood. I was not a huge fan of blackwood and my times there reflect that 1.08.something. What I did notice about BW GP was that first corner and chicane section before the straight. My best times always came from getting that section right, although I was always a good half second to a second of the fastest pace through there but I made up a hell of a lot of time through the back section. With the FZR and high Coast lock (Like I have mentioned before I ran coast nearly at maximum, it worked for me.) You could ram that baby into second on the approach to the first corner and it would stop on a dime and allow you great turn in whilst still engine braking, but I could never get a good exit from that because I could never get the power down well enough, I sloved that by early change to third on the exit and using thrid through the chicane. The revs would be a bit low on entry on T1 exit but they would on song just as you came out of the chicane, this meant I could keep the back end fairly tight but with the detriment of loosing a few tenths by not having second gear. But like I said, BW was not my favourite so I handn't donw a huge amount of testing there.

-A note on the second gear slammer-

I don't know if anyone one else uses it or can use it or whether it was just my driving style and setup but the second gear slammer was a great tool for a mouser to use. I could out break many pedal usersby using the technique. Maybe from the discussion here it might be an effect of the high Coast lock. For a mouser a high coast lock helps tremendously in fast braking zones by keeping the rear end controllable (At least in the FZR anyway) as does a low power on lock helps to soften the 'digital' input of the mouse somewhat. But the second gear slammer was something else entirely. It needs practice to get the timing right, but once you have it its a very useful tool. It is a classic out braking technique, not one I use for speed laps or general racing. But if you are racing someone then it's a beauty. Normally a pedal user can out brake a mouser by sheer dint of controlled pressure, but I found that softening my front suspension, letting the bounce have some play and a relativly low front tyre pressure I could get my brake force back up to normal parameters. Combine those with a high coast lock therefore relying heavily on engine braking I could quick change from 6 to 4, let the engine take the strain untill I judged I was slowing enough and then at the right point (To early you'll lock up the rear and you ruin everyones race, to late and you'll over shoot and make all the effort wasted) slam it into second, the car stops so quick that I thought it must be a handling bug. Which it could well be and with the new tyres it's even more pronounced. But it not only allowed you stop quickly but it still gave you enough control to make the bend with both a good line and good speed due to the fact that you are effectily trail braking with the engine so the front wheels are just concentrating on steering. Like I said, I'm sure this is not unususal and with the talk about the coast lock I think that might explain the behaviour, but it worked for me.
I read in the advanced setup guide that there will be a suspension analyser that takes downforce into account by the end of the year .
Any news ?
Quote from Turbo Dad :I read in the advanced setup guide that there will be a suspension analyser that takes downforce into account by the end of the year .
Any news ?

If I remember rightly Bob's suspension analysers allow you to add load and see the effect. All downforce does is create more load so I reckon the current analysers will work just fine.
Quote from Gentlefoot :If I remember rightly Bob's suspension analysers allow you to add load and see the effect. All downforce does is create more load so I reckon the current analysers will work just fine.

Please, credit where it is due, the suspension analysers are Colcob's creation. I merely populated them with S2 data and removed some "unnecessaries".

To the original poster, I am working on something that should hopefully replace the Excel spreadsheets once and for all. A few months away until it's complete though.

FZ50GTR Suspension Frequency
(62 posts, started )
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