Ill start off formally. .

Juan Pablo Montoya is well known in Formula 1. He is the Raging Bull, the "Monsta" of Formula 1. We could say he was but what about now? In his early stages of Formula 1, he was a quick, fast, consistant and a championship contender without a doubt. He made Schumy look like a complete joke with his fast gusty passes and his consistant poles.

That all started to end at 2005 when he first joined Mclaren. For the last year and a half he has been strugling from the car, pressure and himself. What is going on? Championship contenders dont just vanish into thin air over 1 year! Is it him that needs to get back into rythem? Is it the fact that the Mclaren was really created for Kimis driving style (excuses or not, it is.. check the deep facts/news) or is it the complete pressure that he gets because Kimi seems quicker and he needs to pick up the pace.

Personally, from information gathered, i think that its all of it. He complains about understeering problems which is true, but its not an excuse for crashing. The car has been set up for Kimis driving style and has been since 2002. I think that MABYE he doesnt want to drive hard for a team that publicly told that they perfer Kimi then himself. Face it, whats the point in changing a driving style when your own boss said he doesnt want you more then Kimi.

Seems that he may not race in 2007. But that would be his last year to shape up! If he leaves Mclaren which is the best option IMO, he has to show what he can really do in his own car with everything working well. If he cant, there wont be any 2008 Monsta!

So whats your personal opinion? Is he finnished? Does he still have it in him? Am i wrong?

The car is crap and Montoya doesnt know how to drive it. Maybe Montoya's speed is the real speed of the car, and Kimi drives it much faster with skill? But its sure Montoya wont be driving at MacLaren next year, because Alonso is doing the first mistake on his career...ok it seemed the best option when the deal was done last year when the McLaren was the fastest car, but now or next year...dunno . I think the car isnt done for neither for the drivers, but Kimi is the number 1 driver in McLaren, and he deserves it. He is faster and hasn't done bad mistakes or spinned on warm-up lap. Or collied with backmarkers like Montoya did twice last year. The guy is an idiot and full of himself, I dont like him and I would be surprised if people on MacLaren do.

Quote from Blackout :

The car is crap and Montoya doesnt know how to drive it.

my words

Montoya is a fantastic natural talent and on his day i believe he can beat any of them.
I agree with the 1st post i think his head is done in by all the Kimi favouritism.
I dont think it is the end of Montoya, as long as he gets a good seat next year.
I've followed his progression since F3000 and he's one of the best racers i've ever seen. I'm not a Montoya fan, but i believe he is one of the best in F1. Just not very consistant, and at the moment he doesn't seem to give 100%.

Montoya shows incredible speed at corner entry on occasions and is fast but in my view he has never been a consistent racer and will therefore never challenge for the title.

Just my view.

I just think he's lost that spark. What I liked about the old Montoya was that he tried to be different, tried to get the most out of the car, even if that wasn't necessarily by driving like the car was on train tracks. I think he's been told by both Williams and McLaren that he has to be more consistent and by doing so he's lost those few tenths.

If you look at the way that certain drivers respond to the way the team treat them Prost at Ferrari, Hill at Williams, DC at McLaren, they have a marked difference to when the team is being built around them, Prost at McLaren (until Senna joined), Button at BAR, DC at Red Bull. I think that the button down rigure of the McLaren team has somewhat deflated JPM. I can only imagine that if given a car that was as quick and reliable as Fernando Alonso then he would be as quick, if not quicker. The problem stems from the fact that if you are not bum chums with Ron Dennis then you don't get listened to or appreciated at McLaren. How many times did we here about Mika this or Mika that in a race where DC outperformed Mika (it did happen). The same thing happened when Kimi joined, if DC had an excellent race but Kimi was hampered by something then Ron would say DC was solid and then go on to apologise about Kimi. I think looking at McLaren history if Alonso and Montoya team up I think the Monsta will stay away and quickly vanish. What Monty needs is the support of a team for a year or so to rebuild his confidence, he really is an excellent driver but if you are not cinvinced the team is behind you and your car keeps failing it would be easy (especially for the more emotional drivers) to get disheartend. Lets not forget that during the F3 days of DC v Barichello DC could win from anywhere on the grid and regulalry beat Rubens. In the second half of the season a friend of Rubens (i can't remember if it was Senna or not) had a chat and boosted his confidence. After that, Rubens was untouchable and took the championship. The bigger questionmark in my mind is Button, what the hell is happening?

Quote from yegadoyai :

The bigger questionmark in my mind is Button, what the hell is happening?

Really bad car, combined with a total lack of confidence as a result of going from being at the top of the grid at Race 1 to battling for low points in the last few races.

If it had been me in his position, I'd be slightly pissed off.

Yeah, that is what I think, but he didn't look happy, at all, in the car on Sat. Out of all the cars coming round Club his car looked worst, not slowest just more on edge. Maybe it was for show, in which case I applaued him for trying but it just looked like the car was a b1tch to drive. I was hoping to see the smooth and clean style of Button and what I saw was him struggling and sawing at the wheel like the historics!

I just don't think he's anything special. He makes so many silly errors, isn't especially quick 99.9% of the time, and has an IQ of 4, which is even less than most other F1 drivers.

Didn't like him on day 1. Hasn't impressed me, bar two overtaking moves, since then. But has provided plenty of laughs (like spinning in Melbourne in the easiest F1 cars ever, whilst going slowly, with a big Traction Control button in front of him)...

I disagree. Button is fast, smooth and consistent. Brundle agrees with me and he should know. But I think Button may be letting himself down in other ways. One of the things that made Michael 7 time world champion was his ability to work with the team to develop the car. He won the championship with Benneton for Christ's sake!

I don't think Button is helping develop the Honda in the same way Michael helped developed the Ferrari. And I think one of the reasons Renault are so strong is because Fernando has the same abilities as Michael.

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Montoya is a fantastic natural talent and on his day i believe he can beat any of them.

The thing is: that's enough to win an occasional race. To win championships you need to beat all of them any day not just "that day". He ain't got that. When JPM gets to the track on Friday and takes the first couple of laps is when his weekend is decided: If the car is good, he's prone to be up there. If he doesn't feel like it's good he stops working, he just cruises around.

He also doesn't really know how to develop a setup which became obvious when RSC was injured in 2004. Ralf isn't the greatest racer but when he was in the cockpit, JPM put in good results. For the time RSC was out with the broken back JPM faded and came back up to the top when RSC got back. Shows you who did the developing with Williams in 04.

Yeah I was talking about Montoya (funnily enough). But I agree with you on Button. I support Button, and I think he's more than capable of winning races given an winning car. But I also agree that he's not a Schumi, Alonso or Raikkonen, and he'll almost certainly never win a championship.

At this point I'll expect Becky will mention again that she thinks he was a spoilt brat who could drive when he was 8, but then he's in F1 and she's in karts still, so it's hardly a fair comparison

I saw an interview with Montoya for Dutch television, I believe it was last season. The interviewer asked him about the process of setting up the car and about the feedback he gives to the team in order to develop the car further.

He just said that he did nothing about that, and that he doesn't see it as his job to help develop the car. He said that's the job of the engineers, aerodynamic specialists, the engine builder... While ofcourse that is their job, it would seem to me that the drivers play a role in the process also. He said he just wants a car that's fast and suited to his driving style, and then he will get good results.

To me, that passive attitude makes Montoya an incomplete driver and not worth a place in Formula 1.

I thought that Kimi's and Montoya's driving styles were pretty similar, both being aggressive with the car (like me, but in the good way ), maybe Montoya even more...

Montoya just makes stupid mistakes and suffers from them. Kimi just has bad bad luck. And Maclaren is just slow and unreliable. Mclaren is with reliability similar like the Toyota is with speed. They just don't have it

Interesting season

I do sort of agree with you joen, but too an extent that might be more of a McLaren thing, they have a gazzillion test drivers for exactly that purpose.

Montoya struck me as a very impressive driver when he started out in F1, although I dont think at any time he's been complete enough to take a championship title I have been a little dissapointed with his results.

I think in the last few years he is demotivated somehow, I think he showed more talent before than he shows these days.

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At this point I'll expect Becky will mention again that she thinks he was a spoilt brat who could drive when he was 8, but then he's in F1 and she's in karts still, so it's hardly a fair comparison

Progress on the motor racing ladder is related to money and not talent, Button is evidence of that. Don't be fooled by his claims that he was the financial underdog. He wasn't one of the super-rich competitors but there was never any doubt he was going all the way when I raced him.

All i've ever said on Button in F1 is that it would be nice to see if he's turned into a good driver because he was unimpressive back then, i'm still open - but I think Barrichello's recent dominance (now he's got to grips with the car) is starting too suggest his place in F1 does not match the hype. Previously Button has not had a team mate to compare him too, he always had a "demo racer" beside him.

Quote from joen :

I saw an interview with Montoya for Dutch television, I believe it was last season. The interviewer asked him about the process of setting up the car and about the feedback he gives to the team in order to develop the car further.

He just said that he did nothing about that, and that he doesn't see it as his job to help develop the car. He said that's the job of the engineers, aerodynamic specialists, the engine builder... While ofcourse that is their job, it would seem to me that the drivers play a role in the process also. He said he just wants a car that's fast and suited to his driving style, and then he will get good results.

To me, that passive attitude makes Montoya an incomplete driver and not worth a place in Formula 1.

He obviously plays some part in the development of the car since he has a few different parts to Kimi like his front wing is designed differently to suit his driving style.

I very much like Montoya but I'm disappointed with him this season and most of the last.

On the topic of Button I'm not to sure on his ability in the car or with the PR He seems to be coming out with "I'll be win this race" etc and then ends up falling flat on his face. Becky has hit the nail on the head; he has never had a team mate who you can compare him with. Now Rubens is up to speed he has so far put Button on his back foot.

Hell that car in 2004 could have been driven to a championship victory in the hands of Kimi for all we know. Button may be smooth behind the wheel but I've seen plenty of people drive smoothly and hit the corners right lap after lap but where they lost out to everyone else was there ability to push the kart hard

Keiran

666 posts

I'm still undecided on the Barrichello Button thing. Lots of people, even 'admired' journalists started writing that Button was clearly the better driver after 3 races, but now Jenson's getting all the bad luck in the team and it's reversed. I don't think both drivers have yet had a good race and qualifying in the same weekend, so in my opinion any comparisons are pointless at the moment. No doubt (actually, a bit of doubt) Honda will get there act together in the next few races and we can start the inevitable comparison.

Personally my money is on Button, but Barrichello won't be far behind. Both are good drivers, and both are/can be race winners, but neither has the talent or the single-mindedness to challenge for a championship. And I say that with my Honda/Button supporting hat on.

Same with Fisi and Montoya - both are totally humbled beside their team-mates, but the picture wasn't totally clear for a few races when they first became teammates. And I say that preferring Fisi to Alonso! I don't think it's possible to not like Kimi though - nice guy (though very quiet, but he's a Finn ), great driver, fighter etc. But I think he's trying too hard to overcome the McLaren, and it's occasionally denting his market value. Hope he goes to Ferrari

Edit: Keiran - whilst Kimi/Alonso/Schumi might have made the '04 BAR a winner, it's equally possibly that Button did a better job than the car allowed, rather than being the limiting factor. It's something you'll never know. For all we know the McLaren is actually the best car this year and Kimi is a dunce. Unlikely, but it's something you can never actually know. You only know when they pull something out of the bag like Schumi has done (Spain 1994 for example). So far Kimi, Alonso, Button, Barrichello, Montoya etc haven't actually done anything that was obviously genius, although I admit that Alonso, despite the fact I despise him, is by far the closest to becoming a 'great'.

Quote from nikimere :

Just not very consistant, and at the moment he doesn't seem to give 100%.

I think he is just a very hot tempered driver, and if he makes a mistake or he gets frustrated from something or at someone else... he starts to suck and cannot stay focused.

I remember reading that for almost the entire race he does not stop yelling in the radio when he doesn't get his way I dunno... I liked watching him in CART days, but now it's just the end of F1 for him imo.

I agree, Tristan, that we've not yet seen enough of the Barrichello/Button comparison to get a good guage yet. It is looking to go Barrichello's way, but we do need more time.

In a way we're getting to see how good Barrichello really is too after all those years under contractual obligation. Before the season I thought this would be one of the more interesting aspects to this year ... with the absence of on track action this year it's fast becoming the only reason to tune in... !

Too inconsistant to get anywhere, far too agressive and hard on the car. I think given a decent car Kimi would be faster than Alonso but would still struggle with reliability because he is so hard on the car.

I dont get this again. WTF are those brittish F1 commentatorss brainwashing you or something? The Nurburing thing was a mistake/accident, the tire got cubic and it couldnt been replaced. And how in the hell driver can brake a drivesaft or engine. One or two mistakes and he is said to be hard to the car and braking the car down all the time because being too aggressive, thats what you want to see in F1 actually, aggression!

With regards the Jenson Rubens thing, all I can say is lets wait and see who ends up with the most points at the end of the season. If Rubens is close to Jenson (bearing in mind the 1st driver advantage) then that pretty much puts paid to any dreams Button has of being something special.

Lets be honest, we all know who the best three drivers are in F1 at the moment but I'm looking forward to next year with the likes of Heiki, Lewis and the rest coming through. Also I think Monteiro and Rosberg have impressed along with certain test drivers. There's a few driverws approachimg retirement.

I just hope Kimi achieves all he's cpaable of however he does it. And Alonso is still underated (I know it sounds stupid). I think we can all look forward to those two battling it out for years to come.

Tyre could have been replaced, they chose not to. I think it was the right decision, but it backfired. That's motor racing, and McLaren always take the riskier more exciting approach :up:

Driver can break a driveshaft by being agrressive on the throttle - repeatedly hitting the throttle for example. Or driving over the kerbs and launching the rear tyre(s) into the air. This causes massive load reversals which are a killer in any form of structural/load bearing engineering.

Same with the engine. Hitting kerbs or being overly agressive on the throttle can put huge loads into the transmission and engine, which can lead to failures. Remember that F1 engines are built to tolerences that you can't imagine in a road car, and if mistreated they are exceptionally easy to damage.

Kimi can be very aggressive, but he has to be to make up the shortcomings of the car. He's making it go MUCH quicker than it has any right to go, but the car isn't over-engineered enough to cope with being forced to go that fast. I think once/if Kimi gets a sorted, quick car under his bum he'll turn out to be a sublime driver, easily matching Alonso for pace and consistency.

P.S. I don't like Hamilton. His pass at Silverstone was the move of a headstrong idiot. If he forced his way though in F1 like that they'd revoke his superlicence. It was dangerous and foolish, and luckily for him the others jumped out of the way (Piquet Junior had to drive though an Agip sign to get out of the way). He'll get into F1 because he's obviously gifted, and partly because it'll be a coup for McLaren (or whoever) to sign not only a fast brit but the first 'black' guy in F1. Whether or not F1 tempers him is a different matter, but I don't think he'll be an overnight sensation like Schumi or Senna were (in the recentish past).