Ye LFS is a movie
Ye LFS is a movie
Thank you Gutholz, beautifully put. I have 1000 words to help illustrate points 1, 2 and 4 in particular
Alot of mod cars are probably inaccurate / not great. But it only takes a few good mods for it to be worth it imo.
I for sure think there are people with the talent to make good cars.
If you for example take the time to measure suspension geometry from a real counter part: Say for example a mac-pherson suspension: Crossmember width, strut tower width, kingpin inclination, scrub radius and caster.
That mod would be very interesting. Of course things like the cars moment of inertia is harder to nail down, and would often be approximated. With that being said, LFS mostly use fictional cars currently. So inaccuracy isn't really a huge concern.
Another thing to point out is that there are certain things about certain standard LFS cars which are "unrealistic". The XR which use a macpherson suspension in the rear is something I haven't seen in a real car.
I don't want to discredit Scawen or Eric, but I don't think the skill of making cars given the right tools is unattainable.
My take on mod support in general is that LFS ever since 2007 or whatever have the most sophisticated physics simulation to date. It's unrivaled. Even the hyped up Assetto Corsa doesn't come close when you really examine it up close. There simply isn't another game which mimics real driving as good as LFS. Whether you use it for racing, drifting or cruising, LFS have the most potential. The thing Assetto Corsa have which LFS doesn't (or didn't) is modding support and graphics. But I think with the graphics update (maybe even further improved later on with normal maps, UV map support and maybe later full PBR support) and also track mod support. LFS can take back the flag from Assetto and become the market favorite go-to sim.
Thanks for your post.
I just wanted to answer on this point about a fairly similar car, whose suspension seems to be described in various ways.
Mentioned here as "MacPherson Strut": https://www.encycarpedia.com/mitsubishi/85-starion-2000-turbo-eci-coupe
And a drawing here: https://projectzerog.com/archives/ZeroGversion1/suspension.html
So... maybe unusual but not unprecedented?
Well. Now I feel stupid
VW funcup use MacPherson Strut too Make a good mod is hard, try it yourself
Make a good mod is hard, try it yourself I'm not saying it's not hard
And yea, I've tried the LFS editor briefly. And at some point I'm gonna try to learn it properly. I've done a bit of modding for BeamNG where a similar mindset of getting good suspension geometry and stuff is also important. The thing I find most difficult with LFS is the texture mapping since it doesn't use UV maps which is what I'm used to. But I'm gonna give it a good shot.
Eric cars, real cars, mod cars it's all same to me as i don't park it in the garage to admire it and can't see it while in it, and yes i see cars i'm racing but how it looks is last thing on my mind, stick wheels on a cardboard box on a made up track as long as it promotes good clean close racing then it's all good.
I understand and respect your wrong point of view. Personally, I prefer to have a variety of cars and be able to qualify according to the level, than not having any cars, nor the possibility of creating them.
This post is a bit off topic and I apologize. I asked myself the question of modding differently.
I was wondering what kind of modding LFS needs?
This seems more constructive to me than judging the work of modders.
The LFS needs to attract more players. This is the real reason why modding is possible today. So how could modding attract new players, especially online?
Answering this question is easy for me because I haven't played online since... 2007 (And I know why. The reasons would take too long to explain here and there is not the question).
The thing that might get me racing online again would be to find races with cars that aren't configurable. Everyone with the same car, same configuration and may the best win.
Discussions on this subject are old. I understand that experienced players prefer their setups. It is also more logical and more realistic for a simulation to have advanced parameterization possibilities. I have no problem with that.
But if the project is to attract new players with modding, I think modding should bring something new to the game. Increasing the number of vehicles does not ultimately bring much. Everyone can already find something enjoyable to drive in LFS.
I think modding could help (for example) by offering non-tunable car categories, if the modding tools allow it of course.
I was wondering what kind of modding LFS needs?
This seems more constructive to me than judging the work of modders.
The LFS needs to attract more players. This is the real reason why modding is possible today. So how could modding attract new players, especially online?
Answering this question is easy for me because I haven't played online since... 2007 (And I know why. The reasons would take too long to explain here and there is not the question).
The thing that might get me racing online again would be to find races with cars that aren't configurable. Everyone with the same car, same configuration and may the best win.
Discussions on this subject are old. I understand that experienced players prefer their setups. It is also more logical and more realistic for a simulation to have advanced parameterization possibilities. I have no problem with that.
But if the project is to attract new players with modding, I think modding should bring something new to the game. Increasing the number of vehicles does not ultimately bring much. Everyone can already find something enjoyable to drive in LFS.
I think modding could help (for example) by offering non-tunable car categories, if the modding tools allow it of course.
Fixed car setups can configured already, i cannot remember if its only from within Airio or the server cfg though.
I'm glad to hear that it's possible to have fixed setups, thank you.
Are there online events with fixed setups?
But the idea here was to have new cars whose particularity is to have a fixed setup.
The same as in real life, car setup changes for different tracks, different suspension setup ect. What may feel good for one track could be a total fail on another, rendering it only useful for a number of tracks.
I also think that having a fixed setup is a pretty bad idea. Different controllers require different setups and after all, every driver has different preferences when it comes to how a car should handle and feel. Those do not necessarily mean that car is faster or slower.
What mod creators can do for example is to limit the number of available values for setting a particular car setup item. It's nothing new and it has been mentioned before. The first example is gear ratios, instead of a continuously variable gear ratio for each gear, one could limit it to 5-6. The same goes for differential, suspension - spring stiffness, ride height, shock settings, and so on. Some parameters like tire pressure or steering can stay the way they are.
The hard part is agreeing on what needs to be limited and by how much, for every car. Given the number of mods, good luck with that
edit. there is no way to force fixed setups with airio, one can only force certain tires, and input help like auto clutch, auto gears, cockpit view, and so on.
What mod creators can do for example is to limit the number of available values for setting a particular car setup item. It's nothing new and it has been mentioned before. The first example is gear ratios, instead of a continuously variable gear ratio for each gear, one could limit it to 5-6. The same goes for differential, suspension - spring stiffness, ride height, shock settings, and so on. Some parameters like tire pressure or steering can stay the way they are.
The hard part is agreeing on what needs to be limited and by how much, for every car. Given the number of mods, good luck with that
edit. there is no way to force fixed setups with airio, one can only force certain tires, and input help like auto clutch, auto gears, cockpit view, and so on.
Fixed setups are common in other sims and there's nothing wrong with them. Having the ability for the server to force a given setup for a car would be fine.
mods are good
Mods are cool, I was limited before. Now I'm not, I can drive DTM car or a tank or a cozy coupe and even if it's not completely 100% accurate who am I to judge, I'm never going to drive like 99% of the cars in the mod catalogue anyway just do what makes you happy.
Thank you for your answers.
@ Bishtop & Rane_nbg
You are right. But this is not incompatible with the idea that all drivers all have the same setup.
The setup could be adapted to each track. One could also have 3 or 4 standard setups for each type of tracks. Or have a setup type "factory output" as the current default setups.
The idea is not to have the most configured car for the track but create a new type of online challenge.
The best drivers always win. But the novices could tell "what's wrong with me? Same car, same setup, 2 seconds difference?"
@ Gu3st
I find this idea funny, friendly and "educational" (sorry I do not find the right word). I'm not saying that all races must be like that. It would be just a new option for new challenges.
@ Bishtop & Rane_nbg
You are right. But this is not incompatible with the idea that all drivers all have the same setup.
The setup could be adapted to each track. One could also have 3 or 4 standard setups for each type of tracks. Or have a setup type "factory output" as the current default setups.
The idea is not to have the most configured car for the track but create a new type of online challenge.
The best drivers always win. But the novices could tell "what's wrong with me? Same car, same setup, 2 seconds difference?"
@ Gu3st
I find this idea funny, friendly and "educational" (sorry I do not find the right word). I'm not saying that all races must be like that. It would be just a new option for new challenges.
Mods, good thing or bad thing for LFS
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