The 'progress' report was a little disappointing. I had to check twice that I wasn't reading a report a year ago and at the same time wondering if Scawen's account had been hacked and the report was a copy & paste.

I'm beginning to feel these 'duped' moments, i.e. is the 'progress' report just the minimum effort to get a few more licences without any real work done behind the scenes. Hope not.

Quote from The Very End :

Back to Iracing - Seems there is a pretty big discussion going on over the internett about the new physics, LFS forum is not the only place where the rage is going on. Is the improved physics THAT bad?

Some take an extreme attitude saying it's a complete turd, maybe to justify reasoning not to subscribe.

My three months resub for $10 ran out a couple weeks ago so I personally haven't had the chance to try the NTM out. What I've read is that there's probably room for criticism, but it's not an all out failure some may want to portrait it as.

Racedepartment has a long thread about it
http://www.racedepartment.com/ ... -i-dont-like-anymore.html

Of course the thread title invites more unsatisfied responses but there are many who give a different perspective.

Here's a proof of real physics, definately not a canned response and yet, not quite what the devs intended
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOjG2Fhas3Q

But here's a short vid of the new Ford GT and it doesn't seem to want to change course with a very fast steering input. Also the reaction doesn't look very natural, like the front end has very little grip. Probably part of the reason why the car feels understeery. The car just yaws...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hArnba1g_fQ

Last edited by aaltomar, Sat 13 Aug 2011, 08:57.

Quote from jasonmatthews :

4. Brakes/physics - Why the hell does any car, no matter what, spin out if you brake without having some accelerator on? Do real cars do that?

I rarely do that even when trail braking. You have to be quite carefull with the brakes in iRacing as it's very sensitive on weight transfer. If you're mid corner and your brake balance is towards the rear then you will most likely spin if you apply too much braking. Slow in, fast out, brake heavy when going straight and ease the brakes as you turn in (be carefull here too so that you don't lift to abruptly). I also very rarely apply any throttle until the apex. Of course if I screw up I may tap the throttle / brakes here and there to settle the car. To be fast you really need be presice on corner entry i.e. your lines have to be 'perfect'.

I do agree on the SR side. It makes playing the sim more like a job. And for me I do get extra anxious about racing and either being too slow or running into someone else. I'm no Huttu

But I do appreciate the simulation side, iRacing is a bit more immersive than LFS which age is showing these days. Partly because of sound, partly because of graphics, partly because of 'real' cars and partly because of accurate and more lively and varied track surface, the cars feels very much more alive than the LFS counterparts.

I do have hopes for LFS, but to me the progress has been too slow. And while I surely can't demand or expect the LFS devs to work in a certain manner, being sometimes (very rarely) impulsive, I do think taking 6 months sabattical from LFS to fix/renovate/move a house is not thinking about your customers (we are pretty low on the priority list). When at the same time I put in the 'work' of trying to be interested in LFS and follow the forums frequently to get a snippet of information. The long wait isn't any easier even when Scawen says "do something else in the meanwhile" when the promise is that they will deliver, you just don't have any indication whether its measured in weeks on in years. You're still interested and crave for information.

So essentially you may put a lot of your time in following LFS but this time is not rewarded. At least in iRacing they treat you as a valued customer, not you individually but the community as a whole. They do try to improve and provide additional content frequently. Of course they run a bigger organization but hell, it gets the job done.

I was the biggest fan of LFS in the early days. Even promoted the first beta in Racesimcentral GPL forums and tried to get people interested. LFS was something really exceptional even on that early stage. I loved how 'analogue' LFS felt. You bumbed into another car and 'bump' felt real. You could really feel the weight transfer and the updates kept coming frequently. I don't know how the devs feel about LFS these days. Maybe they had higher expectations on success? They don't seem very enthusiastic about it anymore, it feels like LFS is on lower priority for them too. That's what it feels like.

Last edited by aaltomar, Tue 26 Apr 2011, 15:43.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

2. Hate the iR brakes. Some say LFS's are unrealistic... that "you can just mash them to the floor without locking up!"... but in most reasonable racing sets that I've used, you have to watch yourself with lockups unless you want a puncture at the end of your stint. LFS's brakes feel a lot truer to my experience both with road cars and with racing (albeit karts in my case).

Love the iR brakes. I haven't used my G25 set for a long time so maybe the Fanatec Clubsport loadcell brake pedal has spoiled me. With the pressure sensitive brake I can hit the braking spots very reliably. What is excactly your problem with the brakes in iRacing? For me what I would hate if I wouldn't be able to lock the tires at any speed (for that reason even normal road cars have ABS to give the driver a chance to steer). You should always be able to lock your brakes (unless brake fade).

Like in these family cars (surely not race setups):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nORxcIGpAF8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly62FoZH_Dc

Quote from BlueFlame :

Is it really? So someone on minimum wage who doesn't live with mother can afford it? I doubt it. On your wage you pay for all your bills, your rent, and any other outgoings you have, internet/car insurance. After all these in a month, you aint even gonna afford one payment for iracing. Where as, LFS, or rFactor, you save up the 30£ to buy it, then, wow, you have it. FOREVER. Nobody will take ti away from you , no matter how broke you get.

Unfortunately in this global economy the wages are not equal around the world. Say you spend 550$ to get all of the content (if your not into both oval and road you can easily halve this expense) after this initial spending splurge you can choose a longer subscription which at its lowest can cost as little as $6 a month.

If you can't put up that much then unfortunately iRacing is out of your range.

I also would like to 'own' the content but in life everything is not free. The quality and work put into iRacing is worth at least the $6 a month. And there's always the chance to re-subscribe and have all the content you've previously purchased. Of course new additional content will cost more if you want to have it.

With the euro / usd conversion I pay more each time I have a lunch in my workplace cafeteria than the monthly fee iRacing costs. A couple bags of chips costs the same... it's essentially peanuts.

Last edited by aaltomar, Mon 25 Apr 2011, 20:02. Reason : typos

Quote from BlueFlame :

You don't need a laser scanned track to have fun. That's just one more reason why iRacing is a failball of consumers money.

Sooo iRacing would be better without laser scanned tracks?


I like what they have done. I like all the little bumbs here and there, even better if they are created like in real life, but I would be as happy with natural "synthetic" bumbs and surface variations if they are added say through a clever algorithm.

But I don't like how rFactor does them. The car is always having a seizure when you gain speed. The artificial shaking gets really annoying. Fast.

In LFS the picture perfect road surface makes driving boring, you don't feel like you're in a car as the road is too smooth.

I think Scawen did not code the original graphics engine all by himself in the early S1 age. But maybe he has learned to how to code it by now... (hard to say as there hasn't been any significant upgrade in the last couple of years).

Quote from _celldweller :

Yes it's nice to (FINALLY) hear that there is progress being made, but one immediately notices no mention of a date! Sorry for the rant, I'm still hoping for something soon.

Well actually we don't know if there's progress being made. Scawen said while there were progress, other parts didn't work right. And there's no date, but the hope of getting some new content is unfortunately still somewhere in the distant future as Scawen said - 'this thread is going to be here for a long time'...

I might pay the small fee for S3 or I might not, it sort of hangs how the iRacing tyre model will improve in the near future. And in the meanwhile there's also the excellent Piboso Kart Racing Pro beta which has me hooked.

I have both the G25 and the RS v1 + Clubsport.

The G25 is less dampened and thus a bit more responsive. The RS is smoother (belt vs. gears) with perhaps a bit stronger effects. So the G25 wins on being more responsive but loses with the rattling center.

The G25 wheel is a bit too thin for my medium (9) sized hands. The RS is a bit too thick with not quite enough space for my thumbs. The RS wheel could have use being another inch / two cm larger.

Pedals, no comparison. The ClubSport throttle is ultrasmooth with plenty of travel so precise administration is easy. The pressure sensitive pedal much easier to get constant results and controlling breaking load easier with force. Also the customization adds another feather for the Clubsport pedals.

I wonder how the new Thrustmaster wheel being belt driven compares... (I'd like to get the Frex wheel, but with the current EUR JPY exchange rate the wheel is simply too expensive).

Quote from baSh0r :

43.821: 13.895 / 15.942 / 13.982

setup and times list attached

Thanks. I was able to improve my pb to the low 44's.

Sadly not all sectors were the fastest ones, actually I botched the last one pretty badly. Could have been as fast as 43.783. Still learning and the fastest lap is a long way off. Improvement from yesterday though, I hit mostly 45's and now quite a few 44.5's.


EDIT pb 43.851

Last edited by aaltomar, Mon 13 Dec 2010, 16:48.

Quote from Meanie :

One of these days I"ll log on the forum and see that the glorious Patch TEST Forum is back up again.

One of these days...

I don't post much these days. After the first years there has been little to talk about. Progress wise.

And hopefully it won't become "Racing Legends":
http://www.west-racing.com/forum/index.php?topic=2987.0

That's right, the forum is still running in spite that six years ago they said "Sorry":
"We value the interest you have all shown in the project greatly. We just throw ourselves into the work and forget about everything else going on to get this out as soon as we can so you can actually make your own minds up about what we are attempting."

Maybe they are still coding it and are having so much fun that they forgot the crowd waiting outside in the cold. Waiting for the promise that never came.

Quote from JasonJ :

and even then it will only equal what LFS already has now, if not, then either close or only slightly better. After this then LFS would soon get the awaited update and again surpass iRacing physics-wise.

I'd say you're being pretty optimistic here regarding LFS

I've only one month of iRacing experience when it first launched so I can't really say on experience how the iRacing tyre model compares as it is know. But with the laser scanned tracks, competitive racing, "real" cars and real attention to details with constant updates (albeit much more expensive) the only place where LFS is going to have a clear edge is pricing. The current iRacing tyre model can't be that far off compared to current LFS model.

I'm just waiting for a nice GT car, Porsche GT3 RSR or the likes to continue to subscribe to iRacing. Where LFS currently stands I don't think it has enough polished content. The game code is good, but sounds and graphics are clearly lagging behind (aaand maybe the tyre model also). And while people are entitled to have lives, most of us are expected to work for a living and taking 6 months off to move/fix a house really grates me the wrong way. And I've been with LFS since the first playable version was discovered (since it wasn't exactly being promoted in any way), I have devoted my time following LFS and hoping for an update or content addition, but LFS starts to remind each passing day more and more like the West brothers Racing Legends vaporware.

iRacing will probably get an updated tyre model before LFS does. Dave seemed to be pretty enthusiastic about it.

Here's a video of the version in development:
http://www.virtualr.net/iracing-com-new-tire-model-video/

In an earlier video Dave was asked how the new model compares with the old one and what grade would he give them respectively. Current model 5, new model 10 (with a wink).

Pretty promising, probably along the same lines Scawen is developing the LFS tyre model. Here's a longer interview about the new tyre model: http://www.virtualr.net/iracin ... re-model-video-interview/

Quote from perisoft :

The chances of them independently developing everything from basic geometry to strut design to the strut mounts to screen position, rotation axis center, and the stainless steel drive track around the machine, are... small. Unfortunately there isn't a lot we can do about it except try to make sure people know what's really going on.

To me it seems that they have more movement in the Z-axis (up and down) compared to 401.

To me the design seems to be legit, while of course it's possible that they have been influenced by your design. By their website it looks like it was first designed to be a platform for a flight-sim. They are also manufacturing much of their electrical parts "The range of products include microprocessor based controling devices, compact industrial computers, converters for serial communication, converters for electronics signals, accessories, as well as controlling and regulating systems, including SW.", so it's not simply a "carbon copy".

http://www.motion-sim.com/about/
"The full motion platform was created on the bases of the development for the 737NG project www.737ng.cz Its development took almost 2 years to reach the pre-serial production stage.

After a line of experiments, a concept using non-synchonous motors and cogged belt gearing was used. It was neccessary to work out a way to use these electromotors as servo drivers, especially at low RPM settings. In the end, a solution was found using intelligent converters and a specially designed control system. The result is an almost noiseless, compact platform which is able to operate without any special requirments."

Is the Force-Dynamics design identical to what's been explained above?

So the only question remaining is when are they going to scan "The Ring"?



With the only car suitable to race there: :heyjoe67_ferrari:

Very good news indeed!

Quote from trebor901 :

to be honest with all these negative threads that have appeared over the past few months, i wouldnt be surprised if the developers had lost some motivation due to the ignorant/impatient people on this forum.

Oh come on... from the horse's mouth:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1152674#post1152674

Quote from Scawen :

"Well, I haven't been working hard on LFS for 5 months, as many people know I moved house and it took a long time to set things up properly before getting back to work properly (because I wanted to set things up nicely in our new house)."

If Scawen would have announced "no updates in six months, so don't moan, I'm moving a house", I guess we would have moaned but at least we would have known how long it was going to take and not left wondering if something was happening behind the curtains or not.

This of course doesn't mean that Eric hasn't been doing stuff, maybe he has maybe he hasn't, how would we know?

They probably hit a legal barrier of sorts with the Scirocco. VW gave a new date when they could release it and demanded even more polish. I dont' know... but I think for now it's something else than in need of more shoeshine. The car would have been released if they can/wanted.

Or maybe they want to rap up S2 with a bang that's long overdue. S2 in its current form is not much to compare content wise / graphically to the big house products. So maybe just maybe they are working on final with more content so that they can send it to reviewed as real final S2..?

Here's a good review page on how the TN panel looks at side angles:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore ... 2493hm-part12.html#Angles

Even if you look a TN panel straight ahead with approx 40-50cm distance, there is still a slight brightness/hue difference at the extremes (even on my 22" display), but it's not that much for it to be too obtrusive. It's usually worst with even color showing on screen.

Here's a very comprehensive guide list and suggestions for the "perfect" monitor, explains all the different technologies with the different panel types and also usually takes into account input lag and so on, a good read if a bit long.

AnandTech - The LCD Thread

For hardcore gaming the first Samsung is at fourth place:

24": Samsung SyncMaster 2493HM, 1920x1200 (16:10)

• Panel: anti-glare TN, 72% NTSC, 16.7M colors
  
• Inputs: HDMI, DVI-D (HDCP), VGA
  
• Scaling: Full
  
• Input Lag: 0 ms, avg (prad)
  
• Ergonomics: Height Adjustment, Swivel, Tilt, Pivot, VESA Mount
  
• Info: official specs | prad
  
• Reviews: prad
  
• Notes: Zero input lag panel (at native res) with decent characteristics. However, it lacks 1:1 and the scaler introduces some lag. Aspect scaling mode works improperly (see here).
  
• Price: ~$400 USD
  

NEC seem to fair pretty good on all usage types...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mOGfg_C-Fs

This would be kind a nice, even more so if the yen/eur rate would be a bit better ;-)



I wonder if it would benefit from some kind of a bigger (fresnel?) lens in front of the projector, so that the sides would also get more direct light. Right now the sides tend to get a bit darker...

1054 eur ($1357) without taxes or shipping included. Sigh.

Taking into notice that the thread was started almost two years ago I'm not very enthusiastic about new content (well there's Scirocco).

Any news lately on core development? More refined physics? Better tyre model? Bumby road surface? Does not need to be laser scanned, since the tracks are fictional. iRacing has left a craving for a varied track surface...

I may have to pass it also. The euro has weakened against the yen over 10% in just one month. Still that "only" makes the product 100 eur more expensive, but it may have broken the camel's back... still it would be a nice toy to have.

Quote from gp4racer :

i am not a really good English listener...sorry, but if you see the review, does Shaun says that the feedback controller of frex are the same of the G25??
regards

The wheel uses the Immersion patented technology, the same as every other FFB wheel for windows. The Immersion stuff defines the logic between software and the hardware. The mechanics (hardware) are unique in Frex and the ffb effects you feel are controlled by the game software.

And about the price, it's the main thing that keeps me from buying the wheel, then again for us Europeans, the rate is better, so it's not as expensive. And besides, the thing has a lot more metal and expensive parts than your average G25. In addition you can buy the wheel paddle shifters separately.

SRT has a videoreview of the wheel on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcqOE-FSnFI

In short, expensive, best FFB, innovative FFB design, very quiet, confusing website, may take awhile to put it together...