I think TheAmazingAthiest said it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPC-isxrhTs

Christianity and the U.S. Constitution don't mix.

NOT allowing the mosque to be made violates the 1st amendment and property rights.
2nd Amendment violates Christian commandment number 6 in Exodus 20:2-17 and Matthew 5:38-40.
Christian fundamentalists getting involved in politics violates Mark 12, I Timothy 2:1-3, Acts 5, ect...

I could go on, but this thread might get closed anyway.

Last edited by ATiRAGEPRO, Thu 9 Sep 2010, 14:27.

You know what? I think someone needs to PM an active moderator and ask him/her to move this arguement to a thread called "LFS Open-source" in the Suggestions forum or something.

Just doesn't seem like this debate belongs here.

Quote from AtomAnt :

You also have pretty big mouth, I Fly Canada , Home of the DART team...Home of Lester Pearson
Winner of the Noble Peace Prize...what did your leader do?

Oh That's right..

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Quote from justasimfan :

Actually as i said before YES IT IS SO EASY.I am not talking making new physics for the existing cars-they are perfect.
All i say is replace the low poly .dds (direct draw surface ) of the existing cars with those super high polygon masterpieces.

WHY?

Quote from justasimfan :

Instead accusing somebody for trying his best to help the game make some study and check the site i keep talking about.LFSMODS.There are there many cars(not perfect by any means of imagination) that you simply replace the original dds files for the model of the body and the dds for the interiors.

Why?

Quote from justasimfan :

Physics/tires/suspensions all these are not been touched by anybody!

Now you get it man ? Physics will stay (for the existing cars) untounched.

Only the model of the car will be replaced with those masterpieces models.

For what?

Quote from justasimfan :

By your tone you are telling me that if someone is a demo user he must go to hell or suffer a simiral terrible fate ?

Okay, you just pulled that comparison right out of your @ss. This is hilarious.

Quote from justasimfan :

But devs nowdays if they don't have enough money and resourses try to think outside the "box " for example as isi did with rfactor by having user made content.

I like that Idea, to be honest. I just don't like the Idea of screwing with cars that already exist, and look just fine the way they are.

Quote from justasimfan :

You can buy those models from the marketplace and use them for $1000-2000 and that is a steal my friends.

.... There is no way in hell you can be serious. I could pay my rent for an entire month for around $1000. Again, if you want user made content, WHY are you suggesting the developers buy sh!t?

Quote from justasimfan :

Think it this way for $1000-2000 the devs can have all the cars updated and having months or even years of work immediately completed.

Again I ask, why are you making bullsh!t assumptions about what the developers can afford?? why are you suggesting the developers pay that much money for something they already made??

Quote from justasimfan :

Also about the effect on perfomance.Those models even through they are 500.000-1.000.000 polygons when saved to other formats like dds they can have the polygons reduced.So you can change in the game option from low (wich will have low polys models of those cars with a couple of thousand polys only 5000-10.000) a medium choice with 50000-100.000 and a high choice with full polygon numbers.

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

... Have you ever tried decreasing the polygon of a Freeform Mesh Object? automatic polygon pruning in 3d programs either DON'T WORK, or they leave your object looking like a six-sided turd! Most of the wire frame ends up having to be pruned manually, and there is no bigger pain in the ass than buying an object from sites like renderosity.com, and having to erase most of it's mesh so that it can actually RUN in a game. It is a f***ing nightmare to have to do that. If the Devs actually DID waste their money on those models, there is no way in hell those cars are going to run well on any decent computer, let alone laptops that only run DirectX8.1.

Oh my god, dude. You cannot be serious.

Quote from logitekg25 :

Greatest comment ever. I especially like the part where you said "".

"Unlocks for this week, all used" - is what happens when your account is used on more than one computer too often. This happened to me before when I kept switching from desktop to laptop all the time as a result of my chronic LFS addiction. Just wait 7 days and you'll be all right.

Quote from cargame.nl :

All these font colors and sizes... Its amazing...

I know, Right?

Quote from cargame.nl :

But what was the discussion.. Car models? Huh?

What has that got to do with 'demo' users..

I have no Idea.

Anywho, Demo + more restrictions = bad.

Quote from lillsnortan :

plz came in to the server plz

Sorry dude, but nobody cares. This is the wrong place to spam your server.

Quote from justasimfan :

Large companies shed a shitload of money to make a game.(For example killzone 2 costed around $ 50.000.000 .

Indy developers do not have that much amount of money.But spending $1000-$2000 for those cars are literary a steal.

Large companies spend a large portion of the cost on their employees, and are you out of your mind?!?!?!!?!? The developers made most of the car models THEMSELVES, and you are saying spending $1000-$2000 on some god d@mn car models is A STEAL!?!?!?!

Why the hell SHOULD they spend that much money for car models? There are already 20 cars in the game to begin with! I ask again, why are you making bogus assumptions about what the developers can afford?

I don't understand how you think adding more car models is going to make this a more enjoyable or better selling game. As much as I like this game, there are a sh!t load of other problems that can and should be fixed if the trio decide to go open source. I don't get why you are making such a big fuss over the car models.

Quote from justasimfan :

And for older computer you can simply decrease the polygon quantity and save the car on another dds file.Depending of the quality option for cars chosen in the option the game could use a low -medium or high polygon number model.And about glitches -there are none.Those models are full my friend...Glitches occur when models are unfinished and have wrong joints,textures that do not much or unfinished interiors.Those cars are PERFECTLY MODELED SO there is no fear for a single glitch !

.... Have you ever tried decreasing the polygon of a Freeform Mesh Object? automatic polygon pruning in 3d programs either DON'T WORK, or they leave your object looking like a six-sided turd! Most of the wire frame ends up having to be pruned manually, and there is no bigger pain in the ass than buying an object from sites like renderosity.com, and having to erase most of it's mesh so that it can actually RUN in a game. It is a f***ing nightmare to have to do that. If the Devs actually DID waste their money on those models, there is no way in hell those cars are going to run well on any decent computer, let alone laptops that only run DirectX8.1.

Unfinished polygons and adding the wrong texture to an object has literally NOTHING to do with a what causes a glitch! Glitches are caused by framebuffer issues, or the code. There are plenty of games (GTA: San Andreas for PC being an outstanding example) that half-ass their polygon and texture design that don't f**k up the game.

If you claim that there are people here that would make car models for free, why even bother suggesting they spend $1000 on some car models? I ASK AGAIN, why do you keep making bullsh!t assumptions about what the developers can afford?? $1000 to $2000 for CAR DESIGNS is not exactly a drop in the bucket for sh!t sake!

Last edited by ATiRAGEPRO, Wed 8 Sep 2010, 22:00. Reason : Being a little to harsh on lillsnortan. xD

Quote from TehPaws3D :

justasimfan | ATiRAGEPRO

There's no need to insult anyone.. Can't you guys just have a nice normal discussion? Seems like we're going to insulting and stuff.. And that's not cool.

I don't recall insulting anyone. Are we reading the same posts, dude?

Last edited by ATiRAGEPRO, Tue 7 Sep 2010, 16:47.

Quote from justasimfan :

No they can't.You see most people may try the game with a crappy wheel or even a ...gasp keyboard !! They may eventually buy a decent steering wheel and then they are going to try some simulators with it.If they have lfs installed on their pc they may go the extra step and buy it.

So what?

Quote from justasimfan :

Also as i said before the game as incredible as it is on physics its really behind on other stuff.If a new,lets say vastly superior version comes up(With dx9 render,shaders,bloom,hdr etc..),a lot of people will be impressed or satisfied with the progress lfs has shown and decide finally to try it.

Good for them.

Quote from justasimfan :

If they have deleted the game do you think they are going to constantly check for newer versions ? I think not.And the only game that has monthly suscription is i-racing and a lot of people have given up on it even through it has improved hugely.

This had nothing to do with the comment I made. Either someone likes the game, or they don't. People aren't buying this game for the Z9 update, and I cant imagine anything more idiotic than not buying this game because the scirocco wasn't released yet.

Quote from justasimfan :

Some demo users have private servers they pay a shitload of money to keep running and have on them servers of various games.

Now when you say "private" server, I assume you mean a in-home server, and if that's the case, than your comment makes no sense. You can buy any Piece of sh!t eMachine and make it a dedicated server, and you will only have to pay for it ONE TIME! there is no annual cost for this kind of thing. Expenses such as internet access and electricity are already necessities in any home, and one doesn't pay their electric bill for the SOLE PURPOSE of keeping the server running. You don't have to feed and bathe the g0d damn thing!

Quote from justasimfan :

Having a demo server were people will join when trying the demo will give potential buyers a great experience of the full game and without having the developers to keep running servers by themselves.So those people help the developers to advertise their product yet you are pissed .ok...

Again, that has nothing to do with any comment I made in my reply at all. In fact, this would be the fourth time I said that I was against further restricting the demo I have no problem with demo users, for Christ sake! I have a problem with this particular comment:

Quote :

And on another matter lfs is being programmed by 3 people.How much money do they need to keep developing ? There are at least 20.000 subscribers with each having paid around $ 20-40

Quote from justasimfan :

So you are a software developer ? Yeah right and i am the toothfairy.You sound like an angry 13 year old.

This has to be the weakest insult I have ever seen in my entire life. I don't even know where to begin to remark oupon the senselessness of what you just wrote. I could see if I said that I was a
Theoretical Physicist from Princeton university or something, but we're talking about SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT. C is not exactly "sacred knowledge" hidden in secret underground tunnels in the pyramids of Egypt, reserved for the cultural elite. Anyone that knows how to use a search engine can learn to write software. (The Irony of that statement is that I started writing software when I was 13.)

Quote from justasimfan :

I do hope the devs sell as much licenses as they can.They made something good and they deserve to gain something from it.Other people release shit%$% and gain money so when people make something good they deserve to gain money.BUT WHAT I CONSTANTLY READ IN THESE forums is bul#$%$ that the devs cannot continue developing if more people do not buy s2 lisenses.

And what I constantly read on these forums are Emos whining about not being able to drive the Scirocco yet, and complaining like a bunch of p!ssants that the update is taking to long, and that the developers are either lazy or should stop the Scirocco all-together.

Quote from justasimfan :

...or that they cannot get more people to help them because they do not have money....I am sick of those excuses.For two reasons.First they probably earned enough to not have to work for the next 10 years and keep a high lifestyle(With the recent economic crysis many people barely get 20.000 income yearly...)

Though I may agree that those excuses are completely ridiculous, you are both wrong.

A software developer needs money to eat and have a roof over their head, and chances are the majority of the money they need is not going to come from their own software. An indie developer needs A JOB. Even if they only work a 9 to 5, chances are they aren't going to have all the free time in the world to dedicate to a software's development anyway. It doesn't cost MONEY to make software, it costs TIME, and when you are an Adult living in a capitalist society, chances are, you don't have all the time in the world to spend on your own software. Scawen may have a wife and kids for all we know, and if you are an Adult with a wife or a child, your time is going to be spent with them, not so much your software. Now if LFS were the developers main source of income, that would be a completely different story.

Both sides of this debate should keep in mind that the people behind this game might actually have LIVES. When you say something like:

Quote :

they probably earned enough to not have to work for the next 10 years and keep a high lifestyle(With the recent economic crysis many people barely get 20.000 income yearly...)

... that is a statement that insinuates that they don't need to make money from their game because they "probably" have so much of it already, which is outright disrespectful. People tend to have this attitude that the money we spend on this game is some kind of allowance we give to the developers, as a special favor in order for them to release the Z9 patch earlier like a bunch of loan sharks, which is unbelievably arrogant and hilarious. Who the hell cares? why are we even discussing these people's budgets?? Who are you to say how much money is enough?

Quote from justasimfan :

And second many many people here tried and ARE willing to give free help to the devs(for example models of cars and tracks) for nothing.The only thing they would ask is a mention in the credits...

... I think the devs are just scared that releasing the source of the game might cause someone to f*** up the physics of the game or something. Maybe they think the first guy they release the source to is going to make it public so that people will start pirating it on torrent sites or something. To be honest, I wouldn't want someone to d!ck around with the SRC of something I sell either.

Here is a sneak preview of some of Scawen's recent progress:

http://tinyurl.com/lzamsa

Quote from justasimfan :

Sorry for reviving this conversation but what the hell are you smoking man ?
Are you out of your #%$#% mind ? A demo is a demo.If people buy it then that would help the developers.If they keep it on their hard drives and race from time to time they will have the game on their mind and may speak about it in forums or to their friends.

They can do that even if the demo has a trial period that expires in 30 days.

Quote from justasimfan :

The advertisement they do brings more people to test and talk about lfs and that is a good thing.Also some people eventually if they feel the game has improved enough or they buy expensive equipment they may decide to buy the game.

This is already the best, if not one of the best racing sims on the market, and doesn't require a monthly subscription. You know, when people like a game, they normally tend to BUY the game that they like. Now I know there are a few lowlife idiots out there who like to torrent games off the internet as apposed to paying for them, but for the most part, people pay for games they want. Just saying.

Quote from justasimfan :

What the hell is your problem if people play the demo on their private servers they PAY TO MAINTAIN ??

soooooo... Demo users have to pay to maintain servers, but the developers don't have to get paid to for developing this game?

Quote from justasimfan :

And on another matter lfs is being programmed by 3 people.How much money do they need to keep developing ? There are at least 20.000 subscribers with each having paid around $ 20-40

You know, I was one of those people supporting a demo without more restrictions, but your comment kinda pissed me off. :gnasher:

I am one of the people who thinks that the demo shouldn't be restricted, but as a software developer, I believe that the 3 developers have every right in the world to make as much money from their investment as they want. What the f*** does how much money they "need" have to do with anything??? THIS IS A F***ING BUSINESS!!! This isn't Government assistance for sh!t sake! What these people do with their own money is their business!

I find it reprehensible of you to even to say something like "And on another matter lfs is being programmed by 3 people.How much money do they need to keep developing?" AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY WANT!!!! We aren't buying the game so the developers can hurry up and make S3, we're buying the game because WE LIKE THE GAME WE BOUGHT!! The developers have no obligation to KISS YOUR ASS, either you like the game or you dont! If you don't like the game, DON'T BUY IT! What the hell do you mean "how much money do they "need" to continue developing? What the hell do you care?

Quote from justasimfan :

.So common now stop this bullshiting##%@ or do you get commisions from suscribers ?

The licenses aren't annual subscriptions, and you only have to pay for them one time.

Quote from Dupson :

And remember that almost each game with pass of time gets cheaper. Its obvious - u get something old - you pay less. But for LFS you ve to pay 20E even tho the game is like (?) 5 years old. This is for me quite ununderstandable

Big companies like EA and Activision can afford to go down on the price due to merchandising. Big companies actually have copies of their games on store shelves, therefore, It becomes essential for distributors to lower the prices to the store they are selling to after a while, in order to increase the demand for their product. Indie developers typically can't afford, or have no Idea how to do that.

I hope one day there will be box copies of this game available in stores. Seems like a good idea to me.

Quote from rockclan :

This was the most necessary and informative post I have ever read. the amount of thought that must have gone into this is incredible. I stand in awe of the profound wisdom and understanding of which you convey through these words. Truly you are the [url="javascript:Leibniz()"]G. W. von Leibniz[/url] of our time. Congradulations. You have just won the internet.

[/sarcasm]

Quote from legoflamb :

Has anyone noticed the facepalm picure in the credits?

No, but I have noticed how many /data/sound/.wav files your LFS wasn't able to open.

By the way, rudeness and racism aren't limited to someone's voice. Speaking aloud doesn't make someone more racist than they would be typing. Sure, you probably can't censor them as effectively when they talk as you could if it were text, but hate-texters can get around that pretty easily. All you have to do is replace replace the vowels with @-3-!-0-U letters.

Besides, you can always just ban the player who's acting like a D()usch3 B@g.

PS: I'm getting kind of annoyed with all the threads that bash a progressive Idea because of a few noobs and @$$holes out there. I just saw a thread that discourage LFS from advertising because there was a contest in which the winner would receive a real racing drivers license, because noobs only bought the game to be in the contest.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=69955

I just find it bizarre that someone could say that LFS shouldn't have new players because noobs get on your nerves. most of the reasons I'm hearing that VOIP is a bad Idea in this game is because "oooOOooh, there might be a troll or a racist out there! They might say something offensive, and I'm scaaaAared!:scared:"

Seriously. Man up, people. Text never prevented trolling or racism before, so what makes you think it'll be any worse? If someone's being a Dou$chebucket, or you don't like what another player has to say,
BAN HIM. I nor anyone else should have to miss out on a potentially useful feature because there might be some @$$hat out there in the real world that decided to be an annoying little pr!(k in a videogame!! I host a CS:S server in the states! my server gets plenty of morons from all walks of life that like to mic spam the most annoying music they could find, as well as say stupid SH!T like how they believe the holocaust never happened!!:gnasher: Do you know what the players on my server do about it??? They VOTEBAN!

I can understand some other complaints about why this isn't a good idea, (for example, some people's mics might be garbage, and some other people's voices might be unbelievably annoying,) but this just isn't a compelling reason. I say again, text never stopped anyone from being a p!ss-ant before, and voice-trolling is a good way to get them banned quicker, in my opinion.

Quote from rockclan :

I do strongly recommend not to introduce voice chat. This will cause a lot of hate, racism, and lot more to go trough the mic.

If you want to speak with friends, use programs such as Teamspeak 3 Beta and such.

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

Most LFS dedicated servers don't have a public forum/website, or a public ventrillo or Teamspeak server. Even if they did, most people wouldn't know about them anyway, and if you have something to say to another player while racing, chances are, they are not in Teamspeak, skype, or ventrillo with you, and you would still have to type it out.

I like how this thread suddenly got on the subject of Bose321 for some reason.

Quote :

taken from the forum agreement.
"2) I shall not post illegal software or post links to illegal software on this forum. Illegal software is software published without permission from the author or copyright owner."
i would say that this also includes talking about cracking software too.
the end

um, the rule looks pretty clear to me. as you can see, the rule uses the words "post" and "Links" as the violation. I don't see the word "Discuss" or "mention" anywhere in that rule at all. I don't see how you could have made the connection.

Even if that were true, how would that rule work exactly? Would I get an infraction for simply mentioning something like a PlayStation Emulator? would I get banned for saying that PlayStation emulators exist?? would I get a red trading card for that also? it IS copyright Infringement after all.
What if I said I worked on one before? would simply mentioning that fact mean that I was breaking that rule?

Let me just say, that as a person living in the USA, it really sucks to be the only guy in a RMS server, or logging into a latin American/Columbia server with a ping of over 9000, only to lead the race and get timed out just before the final lap. At this point, I would rather race with some crappy 13 year old idiot who can't drive than by myself.

Noobs are all around us. They is always going to be a 60% noob ratio in any online game, racing sim or not. I know how annoying and frustrating a noob in a racing sim can be, (It's more frustrating to deal with noobs while driving than any other type of game,) but if you can't cope with the fact that noobs are out there, than you shouldn't be playing online to begin with.

I think it's unfair to say that the developers of Live For Speed should miss out on potential success just because noobs get on your nerves. I don't like noobs either, but the developers of LFS should be as successful as they want to be. This isn't some FREE GAME we're talking about, this is a business, and if that business isn't successful, then LFS will always be in bad "Shape".

Quote from rockclan :

The Live For Speed Forum needs more and better Moderators.

I'm not saying that the current moderators are not good, but they just don't do their job right, and use their personal opinions in the way they treath stuff.

This should not happen, moderators should look from the point of view from the buiseness, and should do whats best for the forum.
I know this myself since I've been a very active and respected moderator myself on www.gamevillage.nl for years. Sadly this forum has died out a bit.

Even if what you are saying is true, (I wouldn't know since I don't spend much time here,) the way you presented this issue just comes off as being very conceited on your part. [sarcasm=9000+] I especially like the part where you brag about being a moderator on ONE FORUM for three years like that actually means something. Please continue bragging about how "respected" you are, and how much of a fantastic job you were doing over at gamevillage.nl, whilst belittling the moderators here with your enormously inflated ego.Surely, your head is not far enough up your ass as it is.[/sarcasm]

If the Moderators don't erase or censor this particular post, then you were right after all. These mods really aren't doing their job.

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Second... What about the kids with their moms (OK, I'm probably REALLY stretching this out, But meh) Won't buy them any games, I think it would be very sad to see our community say "No.. Sorry.. But you've done your time..

I was just about to mention that.

I think it's safe to assume that a large portion of the LFS community that play the demos aren't old enough to have a credit card or a paypal account anyway, so how can anyone expect them to fork over $37.42 for a game? Even if they had the cash, it's not like they can buy this on store shelves.

The LFS community here in the States is pretty close to being DEAD. all 997Bazillion U.S. servers are empty on an almost consistent basis, and I'm getting sick and tired of having to go on South American and LFS Columbia servers with a ping of about 180, only to lead the **** ing race and then at the VERY LAST LAP my connection cuts out just before the ****** ****ing finnish line!!!!:banghead: :irked:

OK, the reason that I said that is because I really hope there isn't some trial period forced on demo users in the future, because that will just put the final nail in the coffin of the U.S. LFS community over here.

If LFS really wants more players, get this game on store shelves. here in the States, people pick up games just because it has interesting box art. most of the time, they don't care what it is or what its about, If the box looks cool enough, gamers here will pretty much buy anything. Sure, it might be a little different because of the economic crissis, but I bought this game at a time where I just started school and didn't even have a job. 'If you build it, they will come,' basically.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

...Nevermind the fact that I've given some perfect reasons why LFS wouldn't work on Mac (I am not giving up my ****ing G25 to use a Momo).

Uh, I don't think that "I'm not giving up my ****ing g25 to use a momo" is a very compelling reason. LOL

I wonder how long we can keep this thread alive whilst repeating the same $#!t everyone else already said.

I'm not saying that a Mac port of LFS is a BAD Idea, I'm just saying that it's a bad idea right now. Scawen is in the middle of making S3, and this is like the WORST possible time for someone to start demanding a Mac version. Again, maybe some time AFTER S3 gets released. a LONG time. Asking windows/DirectX developer to rewrite this game for OS X ( even when they don't know how) is like asking someone who ISN'T Jesus to walk on water.

Quote from E.Reiljans :

ATiRAGEPRO, OpenAL is audio library, OpenGL is graphics library, and both of them are available for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X.

Yeah. xD I have no Idea what I was snorting when I said that.:tired: I had also mentioned something about "Input sprockets." That is some really old $#!t. Mac Os used "Input Sprockets" back in 1999, back in the days of Mac OS 8.6. I I need to get some sleep.:doh:

Why is there a link to a US flag?

Last edited by ATiRAGEPRO, Sun 15 Aug 2010, 00:38.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Editing a few strings in the PList won't add support for the G25/G27. Yes it'll (maybe) let the LogitechHIDDevice take control of it, rather than the generic HID in OS X, but the driver still won't know what to do with the G25.. and will likely simply fail to load.

I don't think you understand the complexity of a driver, it's not something that "hacking a plist" can fix. It would need to be entirely rewritten, for the G25 a control panel would be written as well, to send commands to the device to set rotation, combined/seperate pedals and such.

Who said anything about a .plist file? I was talking about decompiling contents/macOS/LogitechHIDDevices. Editing some plist file is certainly not going to do anything particularly useful.

I hadn't even thought about the control panel.

Quote :

And it's not the same for Linux either. The issue with Linux is most people using it aren't using it because they are forced to.. they are using it due to ideological (or stability) concerns.

Most hardware developers don't even bother supporting Linux, either because it isn't mainstream or because it isn't profitable. Most software developers don't make software for Linux, either because their is little hardware support, it isn't mainstream, or because it isn't profitable. The Mac OS is in pretty much the same situation when it comes to game development.

Anyway, Apple dropped the ball YEARS ago when it comes to gaming. Not because the platform wasn't popular, but because finding info on Mac OS and Power PC app development was like trying to find a needle in a 12 foot haystack trough a hubble telescope in outer space.:gnasher: I remember trying learn since I was about 10 years old, and by the time I did learn to do it right, Apple announced they were switching to INTEL cores the same month. Third party development before the whole Intel switch was kind of scarce. You would NEVER have seen a version of Half-Life 2 or Counter-strike on a PowerPC computer. ... Xbox 360 doesn't count.

Now that the Mac already has this bad reputation since the 90s when it comes to gaming, it's no wonder there are so few Mac game developers.

How did we get on the subject of the pit lane exit again?

I've missed the pit lane plenty of times when I was just starting out playing LFS. I'd have messed up the front end of my car and thought to myself "Oh sh!t!! was that the pit lane??" Sure, I would Like it if the GP track had the same pit entrance as the Rallycross track does in addition to the lane it has, but I think the entrance it has now it in a good spot. It's just before the last turn. I would hate if it were in any other spot.

Besides, you could always just, you know, NOT drive on the grass. If that's unavoidable for whatever reason, you could just drive more carefully when coming up to the pit lane in the first place.

Quote from thepros :

i know those two ideas are not the greatest but i find it really diffcult with damaged body and no grip on the tires to make it thru this pit at the same time u wanna be fast.

The pit lane is the one place in the entire track you aren't supposed to be fast. it's a PIT LANE! xD

And lol @ the suggestion of adding a tunnel for a pit exit!