Quote :

Logitech Driving Force GT Wheel Delivers Powerful Force Feedback, Brake Bias and Traction Control Adjustment

Aren't these just some buttons? Maybe some kind of potentiometer but thats all isn't it

Next one "Ultimate screenshot generator" official wheel will probably have adjustable ESP ..... also maybe "rechargeable" airbag

Quote :

the Driving Force GT features an illuminated horn button with the official Gran Turismo logo. Using the authentic sounds of the car being driven, racers can quickly alert other cars when they are approaching fast.

Or when playing online, people can simply use the horn to taunt other players as they speed by.

:slap:

Last edited by lovretta, Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:09.

Good one Also as I've seen, 7900 GS are better overclockers then 1950

Quote from DaveWS :

Do you reckon my PSU is fit for it? I've got hardly anything in my PC, so I would think it would be OK (no floppy drive, only one HDD etc)

I have a 1950PRO, no problems for almost a year, and my PSU is also 380W (Tagan). So i reckon you would have no problems with it.

Just a suggestion: if it would be radeon 1950 series, rather go for 1950GT over PRO model. There were lots of 1950 PRO models which had problems with overheating input power transistors. Mine is model without those problematic transistors (Gigabyte).

Only difference between 1950 GT and PRO is default clocks. And most GT's overclock more then 1950 PRO.

And Drift King himself [Keichi Tsuchya] said that it's not about power, it's balance.
His favourite car is "that" old Toyota AE86, which isn't really THAT powerful, right?

Quote from Hallen :

lol, well, it is well known that Porsche drivers use goofy lines into corners. There is the "racing line" and the "Porsche Line".

Quote from Rooble :

I never knew rFactor could talk, amazing.

Quote from XCNuse :

I'm more surprised rFactor owns (no pun intended) S2

Quote from xaotik :

What I think is sort of missing is the feel of the tyres "microgripping/slipping" when losing traction and regaining it at the limit - right now it's very smooth, there's no edge to it and there's a lack of the tendency to snap when it suddenly regains traction - it more or less slides back into traction smoothly.

Exactly that

Quote from steve :

It would also be nice to be able to have some sort feeling when the front wheels lockup also.

Hmm this can be felt alredy. Try that lx4 caster-decrease 'test'!

Quote from seinfeld :

when the car oversteers id like the wheel to spin if i let go, thats natural in all cars, but it doesnt happen in lfs

As others already said, probably something is not right with the way your wheel is set. Do you use "Centering spring" FFB setting in wheel control panel - if it is too strong it could kill all FFB coming from game, and also it shouldn't be used other then set to 0.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Regarding nK namie, I have to say, while its FFB was a godsend compared to anything ISI had, I did and still do loathe the vanishing forces once you understeer or oversteer. It is so friggin awful, going into a slight oversteer and suddenly the FFB resistance is gone and you slide around without being able to do anything. As long as you stay below the limit it feels fine, but it's absolute pants when going over it.

I've experienced this what you are describing, but only if I was setting FFB to low values

Quote from Woz :

Low caster takes the "feel" out of the steering wheel IRL as well from what I understand. That and KPI.

Of course, but what I'm trying to say all this time is: shouldn't we feel "more tires", I'll try to explain myself like this: current FFB + MORE FEEDBACK FROM THE TIRES!
That caster example was mentioned just to point out that when understeering heavy it just isn't felt via FFB, only way to know that you are understeering is to see that your car is about to go straight instead of turn in!
I know that there are RL cars out there which also behave like this (my '05 Megane for example) - but that is whole different story, here (simulations) we are able to "feel" the car ONLY through a FFB. I'm not saying "Scawen, give us crappy ISI predefined effects", just make somehow tires feed more feedback into steering column!

EDIT: All of this which I have said isn't coming from someone unpleased - I DON'T dislike LFS FFB. I think it is great. But why not make it even better?

Last edited by lovretta, Fri, 18 Jan 2008 01:16.

When I was refering to how understeering feels I was not thinking about ISI sims (I hate ISI FFB, i use RealFeel in rF), i was thinkig about '95 Škoda Felicia 1.3

Yes, there are differnet types of doing it, and I am sure that power-under lightens the wheel much more then the others. Maybe we should refine expressions used in this thread. Not drop off, rather "loss of grip" - when you are in a corner you feel that "wall", and you feel through a steering wheel when the tire is about to lose grip, aren't you? I wasn't only reffering to understeer. again, decrease caster on lx4. Go onto any track. Maybe the best place is car park. Pick up some speed. Turn your wheel to full lock. See? Nothing happens with force. It just INCREASES - no information from what the front tires are doin. Just what is happenig with the suspension.
Sports cars which "filter" tire informations aren't appreciated much... Example is my '05 Renault Megane with its electric power steering... OK it isn't sport version... But anyway it's steering is dead... Škoda was better on that. Plenty of information.

EDIT: this post was meant to be under Woz's

Last edited by lovretta, Wed, 16 Jan 2008 01:09.

Quote from JTbo :

I haven't tested that with LFS too much, it has been rather easy to feel/know(/guess?) understeer in LFS so I have had not much reason to test it.

Agree. Just try to decrease caster on LX4 and on track... Almost no force.

Quote from JTbo :

Generally effects seem to be really nice and good, I feel most of missing things are because FFB is limited to only that steering forces.

I agree totally.

Quote from JTbo :

Sorry if all above is impossible to read, I'm bit tired and I should be in bed already

Me also ... Will "read" rest of your post tommorw

EDIT: cant wait tomorrow

Quote from JTbo :

But, now we come to interesting part, how can you make such surface in computer simulation?
I don't believe that what you see in lower part of attachment can be made yet (collision physics and 3d models limiting perhaps, does in other titles at least) and kerb for example is that what is drawn at upper part, that of course does feel different.

hmm i think RBR does it this way, 3D modeling and then "onto" wheel...If u go over small "bump", which could be anything, wheel yanks really hard... And also I remeber interview with some i think Russian guy, about his simulation (which isn't finished), he said main difference is 3D surface moddeling - and he compared it to LFS... I will find it tommorw post pics here...

Last edited by lovretta, Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:30.

Quote from JTbo :

You don't squeeze tyres with your hands, it is FFB steering wheel that you grab when you like to turn, steering axle is what delivers forces to wheel and those forces are simulated, from those only forces that pulls either left or right are what you can feel, sending anything else to wheel would be nonsense as your wheel is not capable of producing such movements

I was actually refering to "that" drop-off effect when understeering - anyone who has ever driven a car, especialy without power steering knows how this feels. JTBo i respect you, your experience so I suppose that you know how understeering feels on the steering wheel - it suddenly becomes "light".... I was thinking of those effects.

Quote from JTbo :

, steering axle is what delivers forces to wheel and those forces are simulated, from those only forces that pulls either left or right are what you can feel,

Hmmm. So by this it means that if a car is lifted up - tires aren't touching road - but yet you may feel some force on the steering wheel? How is that possible? I mean, aren't the tires those that generate all the force acting on suspension??? We should feel THEM also.

Last edited by lovretta, Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:47.

Quote from Nordic :

I have a big problem with the FF. The overall feel is pretty good, but there seems to be a problem with the front tyres force feedback. I just can't feel them, there is no feedback about the available grip and no force drop off. I tried different profiler settings and changed the ff rate in the .cfg from 256 to 128, but it didn't help either.

My setup:
G25
Profiler settings: center spring off/ 105%
Ingame: force set to 64

Do you guys feel a force drop off? Any advice?

OK to clear things out: I'm NOT starting this-sim-is-better-than-that discussion because it isn't It is now quite old...

Today I tried old netKar 0.9.9 "namie" - and what a surprise, after maybe more then one year of not "playing" it, I was surprised alot - with it's forcefeedback, I loved it back in the old days when it was my favourite sim, and today I see that it's FFB os better then anything around - why I quoted what Nordic said - understeer - I just cannot figure out through FFB when the car is understeering in LFS - i just see that it wants to go straight - and in old netKar - i CAN FEEL IT! And netKar also didn't have FFB generator, it was just like LFS direct! So it isn't Logitech drivers

So, seems to me that in LFS suspenison masks tire forces, maybe devs should incerase them somewhat? - this idea came from RealFeel (rF plugin), which combines tire forces and suspension... Actually does not "combine" them, but to make it simpler...

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Feeling a drop off all depends on:
- how well alligning torque is modelled
- how much the weight of the car / downforce acts on the caster
- how you set your wheel up; do actual max game forces correspond with the maximum FF your wheel can take or does it 'clip'?

Pretty soon, some caster will outweigh so much of the alligning torque that the FF wheel won't be 'smooth' and subtle enough to let you feel the difference.

Also as Niels stated, "too-much" caster could "kill" some of the forces...

EDIT: Did some testing... So - take LX4, decrease Caster to lowest setting - go out on track. You don't feel almost nothing... Kerbs are felt tough. Also locking front wheel can be felt, but other than this almost nothing. I've increased FFB ingame to 200 so I could be able to feel any feedback... So it seems that tires aren't much involved into FFB delivered to our wheel

Last edited by lovretta, Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:57.

First, thank you Bob for this very great and for me best addons to LFS!

So, I've read your advanced setup guide - not every part of it TBH, but I will, I'm slowly learning bit-by-bit.
So, what interest me the most is the Suspension. And I fully use VHPA. I've created set for XRGT and XRT. Spring rates for both cars ~2.0Hz front, 0.10-0.15Hz lower for rear. And rebund set to 80% of critical damping, bump to 75% of rebound.
Anti-roll - I'm setting it to less then 1 ratio with springs. These your tips function really great, and are fast'n'fun to drive.

Also, I reduce ride height onto level equal to the spring deflection - at least that is how I understood the ride height setting up.
But when doing so, and loading into LFS - when dropping the car in the garage - SUSPENSION is bottoming, and I'm increasing ride height until there is no more bottoming.

And what really will look like question is:
Spring rate - you written in your Advanced setup guide that usual frequency for racing car which weights 1t is 2.0Hz, and it decreases for heavier cars.
Does this mean that "optimal" spring rate for LX4 (~500kg) would be 4.0Hz - are these changes LINEAR, or there is some function for them?

EDIT: PS. Merry Christmas to everyone!

Here is mine RAC, low-lock set. Well, Power/Coast set to 40/40 , preload 40Nm. I know the thing is to make coast as low as possible, but if it's decreased, too much trail brake oversteer occurs
Set is based upon old set I've found on RSC, donwloaded Bob's version , then changed it abit.
I've driven it on SO Chicane the result is 1.11.94.

Last edited by lovretta, Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:02.

I also want to be part of this Great idea

Quote from Rota8u :

....720 degree drifting with the Logitech Driving Force pro

Thats pretty hard-to-impossible - dfp is too slow on reaction - it has huge gear-ratio bethween steering rack and FFB motor...

Again, I dont know has this been reported. Since updating to X36, EVERYTIME i start LFS it is in windowed mode. And then I have to press Shift+F4 to go fullscreen ?! Tried changig resolutions, didn't help.


EDIT: It works fine now. Don't know why, but it does

Last edited by lovretta, Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:01.

Not sure if this has been reported, but here is the story: been racing LX4 on new South City Chicane, after the race saved MP replay, and after saving the racing line was visible to me.
Look at the attachments.

Right now I'm comparing the one of the Driving Force and Driving Force PRO, those are exatcly the same, output 24V 0.75A, also model ADP-18LB C.

Its this one, right? As I see all Logitech wheels except G25 use the same power supply, I also own one Driving Force and DFP, tried DFP with power supply with the older one, and guess what - it works. Specifications are same (voltage, output current), also i think this probably goes for the Logitech momo. So any logitech ac adapter should do fine - excepet g25?.

Looks like noone likes this combo
Anyway, here is setup which I've created with vehicle analyser - great great tool!
Did 1:17.8 with it.

Just as the title says... If someone has setup for this combo, or at least some good setup for RAC... I tried creating my own set, with much help from VehicleHandling Analyzer (great tool), but my sets didn't take me lower then 1.19
Probably my driving and not knowing the track too good (bought S2 today)