When will the qualifying races be? :bewarespa

Quote from r4ptor :

That wasn't really my purposal though

I'm against rules that arise from thinking that everyone is or possibly could be cheating, especially when it will affect (IMO more so than you think) innocent teams/drivers.

We already had a - in a way a - similar case with first MoE round, where allot of the drivers qualified in such a way that apparently wasn't allowed, however the rules didn't state that. The outcome was that the first qualification round was nullified - thats not drivers cheating or wanting to cheat - it's the league organizers not doing their job.

If league organizers really want to get rid of cheats, they should consider more severe actions such DQ or even ban from rest of the season, but only when there is no doubt that the driver/team had been cheating and done so delibrately. But introducing penalties that punishes too much, and even the innocent ones is over the top and would possible lead to no one wanting to waste time in such races anyways.

I agree widely on you - and sorry, youre right - it wasnt your proposal

However at the moment there is no way to see if you get a real or a faked disconnect, not that I know off, anyway. The only good way as I see it, would be to implement server memory of the car state and repairing possible while disallowing shift-p or shift-s. That would improve the sim-feeling and bury the "time-out-cheat"

EDIT: Forgot to say, that irl the car would often not be repairable, causing the team to retire from a 24h race. That sounds fine, but looking at the enjoyment aspect it would quickly put an end to enduranceraces, I'm afraid. Leaving engine repair as a server option will make the hardcore guys happy, while others could go for the pit repair option - This would in both ways enhance the race feeling and eliminate the need for shift-s or shift-p

Last edited by MZWiZard, Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:39.

Quote from blackbird04217 :

As far as you question of what is more realistic shift-p/shift-s or forcing the car around the track - please watch a few races on TV and tell me when you see a car telepit... I mean are you really asking what is more realistic? I would like to see this become a server option in the future so that cars that crash need to find a way to get around the track and deal with their issues...

+1

Thanks for all the feedback on this. I agree a lot on Hyperactive's proposal - that car state should be remembered by server. But it should all be an automated process to avoid the need for looking through an entire race afterwards. Like when you rejoin the race, your engine is still bad and a repair would take 10-30 minutes? It will also keep things more realistic than warping your car into pits.

+1 here

On the other hand, r4ptors proposal is quite simple and effective for now (i would prefer penalizing 5 laps at DC or shift-p, shift-s). Only problem will be the unlucky guys that are on an instable ISP, which clearly is not their fault.

Would do for now, I guess.

Last edited by MZWiZard, Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:29.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

I agree with the person above. I think that a disconnect should retire you from the race. If you really have issues with getting disconnected, that's your issue, not everyone else's. It should just count as a mechanical failure and retire you from the race...

Doesnt sound fair to me. Think of all those hours a driver can have practiced for an event? Then, perhaps being in top three in an endurance race at the last hour of a 4 hour race, your ISP just resets your connection... I mean, thats not even in your hands? - Also remember, in an endurance race you must be able to do driver change.

I think the only resonable way to settle this, is to make it inattractive to get a purposed timeout, by either:

1. Give no penalties for shift-s or shift-p (making people wanna do that more often, minimizing reality)

2. Make damage repair possible, but maximum repair time including refueling and tires, must be less than or equal to the time you could gain by imposing a timeout

3. Remove damage - minimizing reality even further

Last edited by MZWiZard, Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:44.

Quote from hsshoura :

...you are making an unfair accusation of D/C

Now am I? If we just change the rules, so that you get a lap penalty for a real disconnect, it would be people like you that got caught and got a pretty unfair penalty. Besides I think the other disconnects would minimize a lot

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

...In short, a disconnect should never save a team time. That's a pretty good rule of thumb.

Exactly! By not being able to pick up time and in fact lose time, this topic would never exist

Quote from Zachary Zoomy :

a new cheat to try. hmm. close thread?

Why? Its a wide known trick, and nobody admits doing it. Closing the thread wont cease it to exist I'm just trying to figure out if people want this trick to be cured - as I do

Quote from jtw62074 :

Engine damage? Can't say I've ever noticed this...

Try "overflip" your downshift from 6. to 2. gear - or take your h-shifter too soon in 2. gear, coming into a corner in the.. hmm.... FXR? Then watch acceleration and topspeed go down

Quote from Zachary Zoomy :

how does this cheat work?

Very simple - you pull your ethernet plug or power down any crucial network device in your home. You will get a time-out, just as if your isp resets the equipment or other failures. With penalties in the race for doing shift-s or shift-p, it can be worth doing in an endurance race.

It will look like a "time-out" In some leagues that gives zero penalty, while doing shift-s or shift-p does give you 1 lap or other penalty.

EDIT: There is an other point with this poll. What do you think is most realistic, sim-wise: To warp your car into the pits, being brandnew? Or to drive into pit, getting damage fixed? Those are the two options atm.

Last edited by MZWiZard, Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:56.

Hey everyone

Just had a discussion tonight with several lfs people. Topic was: "Engine damage cause people to cheat by pulling the plug or switch off their router".

Edit: We were doing some aftermath on the last moe race, where several suspicious disconnects occured. In this race and other endurance races you will be penalized with a lap if you have to do the shift-s or shift-p, giving you an advantage if you simply pull the plug and get a time-out as most races doesnt penalize you for that.

To summarize our findings:

"When cheating gives an advantage, someone WILL cheat, causing others having to cheat too" - all agreed.

So discussion went on by how to remove the cheating possible.

One said, that making the engine repairable in pit, taking about 15 mins would make it bearable and certainly more realistic than shift-s or shift-p. Widely agreed, but then again it makes it more attractive for cheaters to do the "pull-cord"-thing.

Discussion went on about completely removing engine damage. Widely disagreed, goes further away from the sim aspect.

Then a two min repair and then go? Again widely agreed, but you have to count the factor of possible worn tires, refueling and other damage in. Which lead os back to the "pull-plug" thing...

Finally we agreed, that to keep sim aspect but make cheating indesirable, we would have to compromize:

"Engine repair should be possible, but the amount of time it takes should NEVER exceed the time you loose by having a fake disconnect"

What do you think?

EDIT: There is an other, secondary point with this poll. What do you think is most realistic, sim-wise: To warp your car into the pits, being brandnew? Or to drive into pit, getting damage fixed? Those are the two options atm.

Last edited by MZWiZard, Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:25.

LFSWorld Username: MZWiZard
I would like to run for the position of nation's manager: no
Skills: driver, setupruiner, womanizer, father, mechanic

Finally we can drink the well-known brand of cola's again

Best of luck to you guys!

John you crazy old fart - I love the way you just do things

John is a very capable musician, which I once enjoyed the company of. If you ever saw him IRL, you would wish you were just as energic and alive at the age 60+!!

That little man is all about music - I have uploaded another tune he made one day and sent me. I hope its not wrong of me to post it here. But that particular tune feels just the way John is in my opinion - smile on the face, lightweighted and alive!

Here it is: http://vcs.dk/download/nivram.mp3

Quote from Richard Torp :

And the fights goes on.. poor people....

Poor "king" - Sorry i can't reach your feet to kiss them.... "LOADS OF SARCASM"

Last edited by MZWiZard, Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:53.

Quote from Humbleridderen :

Allan, you are a pure provo!...But full of shit!

That we can agree on...

Quote from alland44 :

We talk about the team Jesper !
Inwards, things was really good.

Outwards, envy, "law of the jantes" and other things made this project impossible

The Law of Jante

You shall not think that you are special
You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us
You shall not think that you are wiser than us
Don't fancy yourself as being better than us
You shall not think that you know more than us
You shall not think that you are more (important) than us
You shall not think that you are good at anything
You shall not laugh at us
You shall not think that anyone cares about you
You shall not think that you can teach us anything

We must see, how the danish community copes with this, Do you want to work for the danish community ??

Richard offered a lot of money and personal time, in Team dba and the danish community. Now we must see, what his critics can do !????

The danish community has lost the most important person. There are only you, and me left now. Not you Jesper, but every danish person which reads this.

What will you do now !??????

Play R-Factor ????????

Exactly these words....:

----------------------------------------------------------
You shall not think that you are special
You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us
You shall not think that you are wiser than us
Don't fancy yourself as being better than us
You shall not think that you know more than us
You shall not think that you are more (important) than us
You shall not think that you are good at anything
You shall not laugh at us
You shall not think that anyone cares about you
You shall not think that you can teach us anything
---------------------------------------------------------

- Was the general danish oppinion of the team dba.dk

I dont see myself as a guy responsible for that statement above - I am now (and have been for a long time) a freelancer in order to avoid any of that. And lets just stop it here, shouldnt we? I'm looking forward to actually race guys that were on the team, instead of them just racing themselves...

Quote from alland44 :

Hopefully, the closing of Team DBA, will result in the birth, or should I say, RE RE REBIRTH, of Team acr. (Africola Racing)

We danes are very sad, but we are proud of the last year, when we tried to make a difference, as Team Den Blå Avis.

I don`t think we failed, as a team. We actually had the best team, the danish Lfs community ever had gathered. Good racers, and good human behaviour.

Richard Torp, and Esben Jahn, the two most fair and clean racers in little Denmark, are seeking new teams. I can only envy the team that they end up with. They are getting two of the best racers in the Lfs community. I`m not speaking about their racing abillities, but the "whole package" their future team will get.

Understand this. There was no misunderstanding between these two, and the rest "of the pack". Things happened in the danish community, that made Richard and Esben leave. This is a logical solution, to the present history of Lfs in Denmark.

I wish Esben and Richard the best, in the future.

/Alland44 teamchef of Den Blå Avis

As i recall it things were not as sweet as you and Richard make it... But anyway I wish team dba racers good luck with their future racing

I am very disappointed because I thought the race was tonight, tuesday

Count me in

Just got a disconnect too - just as I were getting in the low 1.50's Otherwise a damn good race!

I'm in

I'm afraid Team Ghostriders are out for good - Thx for the races we had And nice summer to you all

Team Ghostrider is not participating, because of real Le Mans. Meanwhile we are waiting for next race, we are going to restructure the team.