Quote from Electrik Kar :

A friend told me the other day about how someone had put together a list of drugs ranked by the actual risk/harm done to the individual and society.

Quick search came up with this article..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/

Cannabis doesn't make it into the top ten, but alcohol and tobacco do. The list looks pretty good to me actually, but I've heard nasty things about GHB from a chemist friend of mine, and was surprised to see it near the bottom of the list.

There's a very good argument for being as informed as possible about all kinds of drugs (not meaning you have to take them), because the law against certain drugs now doesn't reflect the actual potential for damage. Why alcohol and tobacco remain legal (and therefore o.k.) in the minds of some, while people who use cannabis and ecstasy are seen as harmful drug users, needs to be challenged. There are plenty of illegal drugs which aren't even on that list, so the system definitely needs rethinking.

Err... that list is a bit of joke IMO. I have seen people go nuts from LSD (and one trip can ruin it all for you, it's not like you'd have to abuse it... and no, i've never tried LSD myself). Extasy can kill you if you're unlucky, and so on.... and above those things, there is cannabis, listed as more dangerous... seriously, that's retarded.

Quote :

I only smoke once every now and then, its all about moderation, with ANY drug.

I agree with this. Although for me the time for moderation has passed, leave me locked in a room with drugs and after an hour yours truly will have done the lot. I can't moderate, i'm an ex-addict and I could be an addict again very easily if I exposed myself to it. For those who have the choice though, I recommend taking life with the ethos of "do everything, but in moderation". It's the most fun way to live .

Quote from jibber :

Err... that list is a bit of joke IMO. I have seen people go nuts from LSD (and one trip can ruin it all for you, it's not like you'd have to abuse it... and no, i've never tried LSD myself). Extasy can kill you if you're unlucky, and so on.... and above those things, there is cannabis, listed as more dangerous... seriously, that's retarded.

I might agree with you partially there. Ecstasy can take you out from hyperthermia if you're really really stupid, and combining alcohol with E is generally a bad thing (see above). It's also pretty much confirmed that there's a link between regular E use and short term/immediate memory loss. It's track record is otherwise pretty good though, and the benefits to society (happy people are much nicer to deal with) should be obvious

Probably the reason that cannabis is higher on the list is that it's more likely to end up a regular part of your life, there is a greater chance for addiction, and the link to lung cancer is worrying, especially if you combine with tobacco. The benefits to society are mixed - happier, more relaxed people, but no one can be bothered getting off their arse to go to work. :banana_ra

LSD, is one of the most untoxic drugs you can get your hands on. There is the danger of a bad trip, for sure- but that will usually simply result in not wanting to do acid anymore. Benefits to society include- increased creativity and imagination and a general desire for peace. :hippy:

PS, drugs are bad.

haha Marajuana Is ****ing epic seriously.. I have had no problems with it so far

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Ecstasy can take you out from hyperthermia if you're really really stupid, and combining alcohol with E is generally a bad thing (see above). It's also pretty much confirmed that there's a link between regular E use and short term/immediate memory loss. It's track record is otherwise pretty good though, and the benefits to society (happy people are much nicer to deal with) should be obvious

Wrong. On an epic scale.

The biggest killer with ecstasy is from water on the brain. Knowing how much to drink while on ecstasy is key. About 500ml an hour is what I always did. It certainly can't kill you from hypothermia, especially as your body runs very, very hot while "up". Also, mixing with booze, while not recommended for the first timer, isn't as bad as the hype would lead you to believe. It produces a different kind of effect. Never was a fan myself but... gotta try things.

Yeah, it does cause some short term memory loss, but usually only of the whole rushing experience...

I used to hate the imfamous comedown. Which, if you know your stuff about how ecstasy works, can be completely avoided.

5-HTP is the secret, a legal "suppliment". Basically it's a precursor to serotonin. Take the afternoon before you go out, and they refill your brains "store" of serotonin, stopping the Monday and possibly Tuesday blues.

Or you could eat a few bananas. But anyone with experience will know that's not a great idea

I said hyperthermia, not hypothermia.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

I said hyperthermia, not hypothermia.

... perhaps I should read *scratches chin*

Heatstroke, yes, possible. But not as widespread as it used to be, with air-conned clubs and the like.

Ecstasy is only dangerous if you don't know the score and what to do. If you don't, you shouldn't be taking it IMO.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Oh really? And this is based on something you saw on TV, I assume? I don't understand why this baseless tripe is directed at me.

Maybe I should just put you on ignore because you seem to do nothing but talk half-baked nonsense in every thread you contribute to.

Please, be my guest. Sorry that the reality (as I see it) is so annoying to you, but you seem to find drug's a laughing matter. I however, do not. I lost a good freind to drugs, there's no humour in the matter at all.

Sorry the half-baked "nonsense" that you call it disagrees with your ideals.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Please, be my guest. Sorry that the reality (as I see it) is so annoying to you, but you seem to find drug's a laughing matter. I however, do not. I lost a good freind to drugs, there's no humour in the matter at all.

Sorry the half-baked "nonsense" that you call it disagrees with your ideals.

i think he just means you shouldn´t talk about drugs that bad (or try to talk in that conversation) when you never took some yourselfe (i dont say you should).

best thing is just try it yourselfe (or not) have your own opinion and leave it at there.

i smoked myselfe and i do so now and then. I know its bad but im not running arround telling people not to smoke whatever they can find.

its everyones own decission..

I'm not sure if I've stated before, I'm all for people being free and etc, but drugs are illegal for a reason, and to be honest if you need to turn to substances to get by and/or have a good time, then something's seriously wrong with your life.

But why would someone take drugs just to 'try' it. I'm sure that's what the pot-heads said when they first took some, and now they're dealing to the kids of today (the ones that don't have the guts to say no)

I know and understand what you mean, that it's hard for me to comment without 'having been there', but I don't see how you need any previous involement with drugs to make your own opinions. I'm sure that Gordon Brown (the British PM) doesn't/hasn't done drugs, but I don't see him in any rush to legalize them (or at least start trying to sing their praises)

Do what you want with your life - It's none of my buisness.

</leave>

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I'm sure that's what the pot-heads said when they first took some, and now they're dealing to the kids of today

You are joking, right...?

Laughable.

How is that laughable? Many dealers now either chose (I'm sure many chose) to walk that path, of (some of them, probbably a minority, but a group nonetheless) started out as casual users (as this thread is talking about) and became addicted and eventually become either casual or full time dealers.

Btw, Marijuana is harmless and totaly non addictive.

Please, give me a tiny amount of respect and actually read it.


</hide really, byebye *runs from flames* :bananadea>

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

How is that laughable? Many dealers now either chose (I'm sure many chose) to walk that path, of (some of them, probbably a minority, but a group nonetheless) started out as casual users (as this thread is talking about) and became addicted and eventually become either casual or full time dealers.

Btw, Marijuana is harmless and totaly non addictive.

</hide really, byebye *runs from flames* :bananadea>

Saying that potheads are all dealers who sell to kids?

Massively laughable.

You know who sells pot to kids? Other kids.

I wasn't talking in general terms (well, I was. Kind of a stupid way to phrase it)

However, you know that kids selling pot to other kids is also classed as dealing?

The comment(s) about the drug users that turn to becomming serious dealers was probbably a generalistic comment to make.

i dont know any smoker who would sell his own stuff Lol.
i think most of that dealers dont take drugs (or dont sell the drugs they take themselfe)

S14 DRIFT you must be one of the most ignorant, judgmental, annoying children i have come across.
You haven't got a clue about the subject, yet you still seem to think its necessary for you to post your indoctrinated dribble here, not only in this thread in others aswell.
Go, say "bye" to mom and leave home to get a life, gather some first hand experiences in life and then come back and tell us all about it.
Until then i think most of us will skip reading your comments.
If you are to scared of the world out there, at least read a book every now and then ffs!

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

However, you know that kids selling pot to other kids is also classed as dealing?

Obviously. But it's how it happens. Kids buy pot from slightly older kids who buy it from older kids who are growing it in their council flat.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

The comment(s) about the drug users that turn to becomming serious dealers was probbably a generalistic comment to make.

Indeed it was. I've been smoking for a fairly long time and I've never had the urge to sell it on.

If you've personally been affected by a death occurring from drug use, then totally I understand why you feel the way you do. It must be a horrible thing to experience, and I pray I never do. I've seen friends go bad on heroin, steal from me, and ruin their lives almost beyond repair. That's one of the scariest things I've ever had to deal with, seeing people slip away like that. It's also incredibly sad.

What people need is to not embrace drugs, or reject them, but they do need to be fairly informed. We're in a better position to do this these days because there's some good information out there, although you need to cross check your references thoroughly. The 'just say no' culture of the recent past hasn't done anybody any good, because within that frame the people who decided to not get involved in drugs knew nothing about them, and they definitely weren't in any kind of position to help those people who were. There has always been a hole in education, filled with a paranoid hysteria about what these 'drugs' are and what they do to people. You can see the history of the campaign to engender this hysterical fear over drugs on YouTube, and some of it is quite funny- (Xaotik posted a link to Reefer Madness, which I'm going to watch in full tonight for my own amusement) but it's nowhere close to the truth of the matter, and that's what's important.

You can read up on drugs, and still be against them. That's your choice. Some drugs I wouldn't really have much of a problem with my friends taking them. Some drugs I am very concerned about. Putting every drug on equal footing is going to distort things greatly, especially if you're definition of a drug is by virtue of its illegality. As a tried to point out above, some of the worst offenders are accepted in society as being completely normal, absolutely part of the culture. That needs to change and luckily I think it is changing.

Maybe you're a better person than most then, as I'm sure many young people (~21 or so) probbably do sell pot. Let's be thankful for that, at least. (was to Syphoon)

Quote from patrese :

S14 DRIFT you must be one of the most ignorant, judgmental, annoying children i have come across.
You haven't got a clue about the subject, yet you still seem to think its necessary for you to post your indoctrinated dribble here, not only in this thread in others aswell.
Go, say "bye" to mom and leave home to get a life, gather some first hand experiences in life and then come back and tell us all about it.
Until then i think most of us will skip reading your comments.
If you are to scared of the world out there, at least read a book every now and then ffs!

I would make a response to that, saying that in my 17 year life I've experienced just as much real world shit as someone twice, if not three times my age (not that I'd expect you, nor anyone else to believe that). However I can agree with you that I'm judgemental (to some degree, at least - I tend to try to keep an open mind), and I know I can be ignorant at some times (although not always, it's not one of my better traits, and I'm working on that, even as we speak), however, because I refuse to start taking ILLEGAL substances, I cannot share my views and opinions, as it seems to upset some people, probbably because I frown upon it? Oh well.

No-one forces you to read my comments (not sure where you say that I dribble, maybe slightly in this thread and in a couple of others, but generally I am on topic and help people).

Are you an American? I have a Mum, (not a Mom) and I live at home with her. Not ashamed to say it, if I had the £35k outright cash or so and a job paying me £25k+ a year I'd be out the door before I was asked. Neither can I afford the £800 or so for a semi-decent flat per month.

But since I can't be bothered, you can just go add me to the ignore list if you think I dribble so much.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

-snip-

I'll bear what you said in mind.

With this I take my leave in this thread.

S14 DRIFT, no one is saying you should be taking any drugs, its the illegal bit that gets me.
you dont take drugs because they are illegal, so if suddenly they where, whould you then take them because Mr Brown says its allright,
or would you use your OWN brain ?
its ok to have a beer or two after work to relax and not a joint or two because Mr Brown & co say so?
Well MR Brown can take a flying f**k to the moon along with all the other prohibitionists who think they know better.

the wrong thing is the smoking bit.
anything that smokes is bad for your lungs and may give you cancer in the end.
however, eating or inhaled with a vapourizer will be totally harmless.
on the other hand eating tobacco and inhaling alcohol is likely to kill you, both are legal.
get my drift, DRIFT?

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

because I refuse to start taking ILLEGAL substances, I cannot share my views and opinions?

Whether you've taken drugs or not isn't relevant, the problem is that your views and opinions are rarely based in any kind of fact. You talk out of your arse, and that's why people get annoyed with you.

It's like yesterday's "British people are probably a minority in Britain" - did you post that honestly believing it to be true? Did you not stop to think that it might be laughably obvious bullshit that you read in a tabloid newspaper and accidentally stored in the "fact" drawer in your brain?

Meh.

Far from it Kev. When I was refering to the "minority", I was talking in terms of more than populus. I may be an idiot, but I know that out of 10 people I see walking down the street, 7 or 8 of them are probably going to be English.

But as you mention views and opinions without fact, where's the fact's that say all this Marijuana stuff is not harmful in any way? Because all the info I've found shows that it can and is.

I don't have a fact drawer in my brain. If you can't beat them with logic, baffle them with bullshit, I say.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

But as you mention views and opinions without fact, where's the fact's that say all this Marijuana stuff is not harmful in any way? Because all the info I've found shows that it can and is.

There are currently no proven links between THC and mental illness. There have been studies to try to demonstrate a link but they have not reached any conclusions. I'm not saying it's not harmful to smoke pot, I'm saying that nobody knows. And that's the bottom line.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

There are currently no proven links between THC and mental illness. There have been studies to try to demonstrate a link but they have not reached any conclusions. I'm not saying it's not harmful to smoke pot, I'm saying that nobody knows. And that's the bottom line.

Pretty much, the link is probably more likely to be that lots of people smoke weed, and some of those people are the type that would get schizophrenic regardless. Symptoms start late teens/early 20's most the time, which is the age of most heavy pot users.

If anyone's worried use a high end vaporizer and don't smoke too often, I'm sure you'll be fine. Much better off than getting drunk every weekend anyway.

From wiki:

In 2007, a study by University of California, San Francisco published in the Official Journal of the American Academy of Neurology[15] examined the effectiveness of a vaporizer that heats cannabis to a temperature between 180°C (356°F) and 200°C (392°F) degrees and found:

"Using CO as an indicator, there was virtually no exposure to harmful combustion products using the vaporizing device. Since it replicates smoking's efficiency at producing the desired THC effect using smaller amounts of the active ingredient as opposed to pill forms, this device has great potential for improving the therapeutic utility of THC.

In 2006, a study performed by researchers at Leiden University, tested a Volcano Vaporizer with preparations of pure THC and found that:[11]

"Our results show that a safe and effective cannabinoid delivery system seems to be available to patients. The final pulmonal uptake of THC is comparable to the smoking of cannabis, while avoiding the respiratory disadvantages of smoking."

So not only is this much safer, but it has medical uses!