I didn't judge you, go shout at Blue Flame. But the point stands true, your freinds will most likely not mind. Same rule applies with your parents - They'll always standby you, saying you're beautiful when you're ugly (I learnt that the hard way) and that no matter what happens they'll always stand by you. Good freinds are just parents that you don't have to put up with on a permanent basis.

I did read.

Quote :

Young men who take cannabis are five times as likely to be violent as those who do not take it, research has revealed.

.. was enough for me.

Quote :

When they were studied at 21, 34% of the young men who had a cannabis habit had a conviction for violence or had committed violent behaviour in the previous year.

Obviously, the whole "take one lightweight drug and then take something harder" applies, but if you start regularly using your hippy drugs, then what's to stop you moving on to snorting coke? Obviously not the law.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t ... k/crime/article648195.ece (semi off topic but some good bits in there)

YES I KNOW IT'S THE TIMES DON'T SHOUT AT ME.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1435974.stm

So basically if it was legal this would not be the case. I was thinking about the effects of the drug not the fact that you have to put yourself at risk to get any.

No, the drug in itself can't, but again, if I may digress slightly. One, two, three, or even four beers won't make you magically go home and start to beat up your family. Same that your lightweight drugs won't magically make you start stabbing people in their eyes. Go any further, move away from the beer and start drinking bottles of whisky, can be compared (in a.. weird way, work with me on this) to stepping up from your Marijuana and getting involved in more. Besides, the average person doesn't go home after a night on the lash and start smashing his girlfreind. (not in that way, anyway :razz

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

But it's a legal drug which I'm well within my rights to use. What's more than that, I know exactly what can/will happen. (Which is my point)

Its legal... blah blah blah. Its a drug. Period.

Quote :

Very extreme, I could think of many simular examples for drugs such as Marijuna as well (or any other drug apart from Nictone tbh..)

Not extreme, you really don't know the reality. Alcohol in the majority of times leads to violence. At least in my country a lot of families suffer from the alcohol problem. And its legal...
But that's not the point really. Its only an example.

Quote :

I think the ignorance is that drug users can only come back and say "WELL YOU DRINK/SMOKE TOO". So what? We're allowed, probbably because the effects of both are well known and documented, so that a drinker/smoker knows full well what will happen to them, where as someone who smokes the occasional/regular joint does not. Could make them Jesus, or it could kill them on their first few puffs - You never know.

You never know... That last sentence clearly defines your ignorance. Its just a joint. Never heard of death because of one joint. You can die crossing the street being smashed by a car or eating some bad food and youll never know it. Whatever man.

Quote :

As am I, however there plenty of times there are drug offenders that do cause trouble, not neccisarly actively, but passively. Besides, not sure about other countries, but I've watched enough of those "Cop" shows based in Britain that even our own police force do not take the issue seriously. There was one person who was a known Marijuana user, who was pulled over on a traffic offense. He was found to have Marijuana on him and admited he'd smoked some that very evening. What did the police do? THEY LET THE LITTLE SHIT WALK FREE WITH NOTHING BUT A WARNING. And that's what angers me.

Yes i think you see too much television. Please get some better sources. And please read carefully other people posts. Drugs require RESPONSABILITY.

Quote :

I'm all for people doing exactly what they want, however when I say "meh that's bad you shouldn't blah blah", they're like "WELL YOU DRINK SO IT'S WORSE THAN ME BLAH BLAH", completly IGNORING the fact that what I do is legal, where as they're doing is NOT. You can call that blind ignorance, but I call that being a generally law abiding citizen. (Not that I'm perfect, but doing drugs is not a "minor slip up" tbh) Hell, I call it ignorance on the drug users behalf. They're so ignorant to the risks involved with their drug habits, and how illegal it is, that they find any excuse to turn it around.

Nobody said its WORSE...
Please open your eyes. Think for yourself. The laws sometimes are wrong.
You cant see alcohol is a drug to and i dont care anymore.

Exactly, so if you're responsible you will be fine

I know I can have a few beers with my mates and have a good, healthy time. I know I won't drink half a bottle of whiskey and stumble around town being violent.

I know I can take a few puffs of Cannabis with my mates and have a good, healthy time. I know I won't take anything harder because I want to keep in control of myself.

See the similarities there? If you are an idiot and abuse these substances then you deserve the consequences.

the fact that it is legal in another country shows us that our government is maybe telling little white lies to stop us enjoying ourselves no? maybe we should get some dutch users in this conversation. that'll help you decide on your next responce.
s14, you said that drug users use the same responces when discussing their usage. but read your own posts. it too is full of generic anti drug responces like "it's illegal so you shouldn't do it" and so on.
so what, it's illegal. how's many illegal downloads have you "aquired" over the years? you shouldn't do that but that too is also done. illegal or not, it's all about free will. i choose to smoke pot. you choose not too. my daily activities do not disturb your daily activities but yet i feel like you're trying to "bible bash" using words like "normal people". with a statement like that your discluding the dissabled, gays, homeless and so on. i think it's your way of thinking that also makes you not normal.
drugs might help
you really should read the links you post. this is taken from that link you posted. "But the scientists who carried out the study told BBC News Online the link to violence was not due to any effects of the drug - instead it was because users are involved in the illegal drug market. " it goes on.........."Dr Arseneault added: "Not all mentally-ill individuals engage in violence. The link is limited to three groups - those dependent on alcohol, those dependent on cannabis, and adults with schizophrenia."
i see your pot linked to violence thingy and i raise you 1 of your 5 a day. http://www.foodnavigator.com/S ... inked-to-severe-headaches

and another one for the tape: (just a couple of alcohol related topics you may find interesting) and no, it's not one of those generic defensive responces. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3660433/
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2007/Ja ... llinkedtosurgeryrisk.aspx

And yes Dadge, I did read your post. However you can't compare downloading digital media to smoking substances, it's quite a stretch. But I'm sorry you feel that way, if you didn't read a couple of pages ago, you maybe will understand why I'm so anti-drug. As I've said, do as you please, it doesn't bother me. What DOES bother me are the people that say "well you drink and that's a drug so stfu" kind of thing. Maybe I am too full of generic blabble, but hey. MAYBE DRUGS MIGHT HELP. THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN MISSING.

<this bit is to the other dude(s)>

I've already said that alcohol is a drug. You obviously were overly keen to read that part. The laws may be 'wrong', according to you, but at the end of the day, they are laws, and they need to be followed. I hardly watch any TV, but that's the kind of thing that goes on - on a daily basis here in Britain.

I didn't know I had to be so literal, I'm attemping to keep it somewhat light hearted before we start getting seriously agro with oneanother and you have to go and be like that :sadbanana

No, nobody said it was "worse", well, not literally anyway. But every time I say (and perfectly validly, that you shouldn't be smoking an ILLEGAL substance), I'm always given the "well you drink so stfu stop being a hypocrite".

Drugs require responsibilty? Surely the responsible thing to do would to not smoke them in the first place!

As I said, tough that alcohol is legal and Marijuana is not. That's tough at the end of the day. The law is the law, and whether you agree with it or not, you should abide by it. Don't like it? Emmigrate to Holland and then we can all get along. If you were all residents of the great Dam builders we know as the Netherlands, I wouldn't give a flying fish wosabi. But you don't, and when you do, I will stfu

Can't die from it? [quote down V] shows otherwise. Not one joint, sure. But then I can guarentee that no-one involved in this discussion that takes Marijuana only ever has 'one'! Sure it's rare, but it can happen. People can have alergic reactions and all sorts of horrible things.

For an unbiased view, check out this link, it has a list of pro and con Marijuana causes death thing. Make up your own mind, the mere mention that it can makes me want to stay away. Yes I know alcohol can, before you start hitting me with that baseball bat of infomation.

I read somewhere that Asprin can cause more deaths than Marijuana. O_O Sounds fun tbh.

[quote] WARNING about the toxic effects of cannabis was issued last night after a 36-year-old man became the first to die as a direct result of smoking the drug.
Lee Maisey, 36, who smoked half a dozen “joints” a day, was found dead on the living room floor of his home in Summerhill, Pembrokeshire, after complaining of a headache.

Michael Howells, the Pembrokeshire Coroner, recorded the cause of death as cannabis poisoning, although the verdict recorded was death by misadventure because Mr Maisey had died while taking part in an illegal activity.

Philip Guy, a lecturer in addictions at the University of Hull, said that “cannabis has changed. Nowadays it is a lot stronger than it used to be. It is not the nice hippy drug it once was. It is a distinct possibility that someone could die from extreme toxicity.” Dr Guy said death was more likely if the drug had been eaten instead of smoked. “If you eat a large amount of it it can be deadly[/quote]

Yes eat/smoke I know. Same substance nevertheless.

It's obvious that we both see the same issue from very different standpoints, and that no amount of back and forth banter between us will make us 'see the light', so I'm not going to bother having this argument, when at the end of the day, neither of us will achieve anything.

</other dudes>

thread, srsly. this argument is pointless

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I think the ignorance is that drug users can only come back and say "WELL YOU DRINK/SMOKE TOO". So what? We're allowed, probbably because the effects of both are well known and documented, so that a drinker/smoker knows full well what will happen to them, where as someone who smokes the occasional/regular joint does not. Could make them Jesus, or it could kill them on their first few puffs - You never know..

Well and you think that after about more then 4700 years of usage, mostly for medical matter, we dont know what it does?

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

As am I, however there plenty of times there are drug offenders that do cause trouble, not neccisarly actively, but passively. Besides, not sure about other countries, but I've watched enough of those "Cop" shows based in Britain that even our own police force do not take the issue seriously. There was one person who was a known Marijuana user, who was pulled over on a traffic offense. He was found to have Marijuana on him and admited he'd smoked some that very evening. What did the police do? THEY LET THE LITTLE SHIT WALK FREE WITH NOTHING BUT A WARNING. And that's what angers me.

It seems the only source for you to get informations is the TV. Ever tried reading a book or using the internet? :doh:

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I'm all for people doing exactly what they want, however when I say "meh that's bad you shouldn't blah blah", they're like "WELL YOU DRINK SO IT'S WORSE THAN ME BLAH BLAH", completly IGNORING the fact that what I do is legal, where as they're doing is NOT. You can call that blind ignorance, but I call that being a generally law abiding citizen. (Not that I'm perfect, but doing drugs is not a "minor slip up" tbh) Hell, I call it ignorance on the drug users behalf. They're so ignorant to the risks involved with their drug habits, and how illegal it is, that they find any excuse to turn it around.

What you dont seem to get is the fact that alcohol is killing more people then marihuana ever could be. There are hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths each year, yet there has never been a marijuana overdose death in history. There has never been a documented case of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker, and recent studies find that marijuana use is not associated with any type of cancer. Alcohol is one of the most toxic drugs, and using just 10 times what one would use to get the desired effect can lead to death. Marijuana is one of – if not the – least toxic drugs, requiring thousands times the dose one would use to get the desired effect to lead to death. This “thousands times” is actually theoretical, since there has never been a recorded case of marijuana overdose.

So what does that mean? Well, ultimately that we are still living in the stone age. The definitions of legality & illegality had been specified at about 40- 50 years (give or take 10- 20 years) at each country and yet even with all the evidence available we still fail to face the facts and alter the legal situation accordingly. Why is that? Well, my guess is that its plain & simple just about money.

the reason we are compairing alcohol to pot is because they are so very similar in their usage and consumption. not because you used to have a drink problem. i have yet to get my baseball bat of information or factual attitude adjuster as i like to call it.
i find it hard to believe that you talk about how much you follow the rules and yet you dismiss illegally downloading content (in the same manor as pot users dismiss the drug being illegal). after all, smoking pot is hardly mass murder now is it? and to add insult to injury. in the same post you then comment on it being tough that pot is illegal. in your own words, if it's illegal then tough, you shouldn't be doing it.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

(...)
As I said, tough that alcohol is legal and Marijuana is not. That's tough at the end of the day. The law is the law, and whether you agree with it or not, you should abide by it. Don't like it? Emmigrate to Holland and then we can all get along. If you were all residents of the great Dam builders we know as the Netherlands, I wouldn't give a flying fish wosabi. But you don't, and when you do, I will stfu
(..)

Hey no heart feelings. Sry if i crossed the line, but i don't like the way this thread was going with people making nonsense judges about marijuana smokers and pointing some fingers.

To finish i think is funny you saying that ^ and i now understand you emphatise more the legal side of it. But thats really the minor problem because laws are here just to limit our freedom, i dont think it should be illegal as long as one doing it dont mess with other people lives. Thats my opinion

S14, can you please make up your mind. Should one not smoke marijuana because it's illegal or because it is a drug? If because it is illegal, then stop being a hypocrite and downloading illegal pirated stuff on the internet (source.) Downloading pirated software is illegal period! It doesn't matter that Fallout 3 crashes your computer every 10 seconds, it's illegal to pirate!

If because it is a drug, then stop being a hypocrite and drinking alcohol. Don't bother drinking anything with caffeine added either. These are drugs. You shouldn't be doing drugs. I don't care if it's an illegal or a legal drug, just the fact that you change your view every other post about legality or the fact that drugs are bad. You shouldn't be doing either.

In the US, there is a saying when you are digging yourself into a hole and that is, "you are digging yourself to China" meaning the hole is so deep that you have dug completely through the center of the earth and are close to reaching China. What is approximately on the other side of the earth from the UK? New Zealand? I'd just leave the thread if I were you, S14, because I think you are just about to break ground and pop up in New Zealand.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Any normal person would think differently.

If you're normal then I'm glad I'm not.

Quote from 510N3D :

So what does that mean? Well, ultimately that we are still living in the stone age. The definitions of legality & illegality had been specified at about 40- 50 years (give or take 10- 20 years) at each country and yet even with all the evidence available we still fail to face the facts and alter the legal situation accordingly. Why is that? Well, my guess is that its plain & simple just about money.

In addition to that, the main pupose of hemp is indeed not just for smoking. Ever thought about what the medicine, oil and perhaps even the clothing industries would do if hemp would be legalized? Because after all, its been proven many times that this plant can be a replacement for many drugs (medicines) as well as it is possible to make clothing out of it with a much higher quality then almost any other biological or synthetical material could ever provide. Its also possible to make biofuel out of it. This plant could change the world and especially the global market forever. The only problem is that its much cheaper (oil industry) and much more effective & efficient (medicine & clothing industry) especially in the long run. Thats why the global acceptence of this plant is still overshadowed by the (supposedly) negative effects and i guess that most of the "contra reseaches" where funded by goverments or industries.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

So you avoid fast food too, right?

In a matter of fact I do but if I'm hungry and time doesn't allow me to go and eat properly then I would go to a fast food restaurant.

Now to clear one thing up, let's just presume that marijuana is not as harmful as we think and that it's better then drinking alcohol or smoking. The problem with it is not the effect it has on you, it's the after-effect. You see, unlike alcohol or nicotine, marijuana will make you strongly addicted to it thus enhancing the danger of desperately wanting more by any means necessary(worst case scenario: robing a store or accidentally killing a man while trying to take his money, etc.), something that alcohol drinks and cigarettes won't do.

But as from what you can see we are not getting anywhere so I suggest that WE STOP THIS RIGHT NOW! It's pretty oblivious that no one will change anyone's mind about this subject.

Marijuana, cannabis, etc. users: If you consider that it doesn't harm you and it shouldn't be illegal good for you! Just leave them alone and continue what you're doing if that's what you want!

Smokers, alcohol drinkers, non drug users: If you think it's bad for your health then don't start doing it, if they want to ruin their lives then so be it, you won't change anything so just leave them alone!

Now let us all just leave this thread to die or until a mod will close it.

Quote :

You see, unlike alcohol or nicotine, marijuana will make you strongly addicted to it thus enhancing the danger of desperately wanting more by any means necessary(robing a store or someone, killing an innocent man, etc.)

That's about the strangest thing I've read in this thread so far. Your opinions are about 70 years out of date.

Bambo, i strongly suggest you to leave this thread right now. At least until you know what the heck you're talking about. Robbing & killing...:doh:

That was the worst case scenario and I believe that a few could actually get to that stage. You simply can't know how far an addict can go. I rephrased it and if you still think it's wrong then I will keep my mouth shut and just watch this pointless debate.

Quote :

Let me rephrase that "accidentally killing a man while trying to take his money".

Perhaps "asking a man if he'd like to put in for a quarter of buds" is a tad more realistic.

Quote from BAMBO :

That was the worst case scenario and I believe that a few could actually get to that stage. You simply can't know how far an addict can go. I rephrased it and if you still think it's wrong then I will keep my mouth shut and just watch this pointless debate.

But you do know correct? Because you've got first hand experiences right? I mean excluding alcohol and nicotin just because they're legal really shows how narrow minded you are. So let me rephrase this: Whoever told you that you've got a clue or put you in charge here should be slapped in the face (just a little, we dont really want to hurt anybody) and locked up in the cellar for the rest of the day.

I have heard of cases before about people that got to that point. Excuse me but where did I excluded alcohol and nicotine? I do not smoke nor do I drink alcohol and for me they are bad as marijuana or as cannabis but if I where to put them on a scale I would put marijuana, cannabis, etc. higher on the scale then alcohol and nicotine. Narrow minded? (says the man blind enough to only see half of my post and not fully comprehend what I was trying to say). Well you sir are more narrow minded them me for thinking that insulting was the best course you could have taken!

So let me resume what I said. Everyone has a different opinion on the subject, some like it, some don't and it's pretty oblivious we are not getting anywhere.

Now if you still feel the need to insult me or to contradict me then I politely ask you to refrain from doing that.

Quote :

Excuse me but where did I excluded alcohol and nicotine?

Quote :

unlike alcohol or nicotine, marijuana will make you strongly addicted

Just there guy.

Quote :

Now if you still feel the need to insult me or to contradict me then I politely ask you to refrain from doing that.

Insulting is one thing, but you need to be contradicted because the things you are coming out with are plainly BS to most anyone who understands that marijuana and cannabis are actually the same drug. It's not cool to have such a strongly voiced opinion on something you know absolutely nothing about- you're actually giving people who don't do drugs a bad name!

lol people that smoke weed are to lazy to go to a shop let alone rob it jeesh :P

% based alcohol has been responsible for killing more people per year then all ilegal drugs put together and this will allways be the case

Quote from BAMBO :

-snip- and for me they are bad as marijuana or as cannabis but if I where to put them on a scale I would put marijuana, cannabis, etc. higher on the scale then alcohol and nicotine. Narrow minded? -snip-

While your intentions are honorable in that respect the context & content of your arguments are just wrong and due to a lack of proper informations you are indeed rather narrow minded.

Quote from BAMBO :

Now if you still feel the need to insult me or to contradict me then I politely ask you to refrain from doing that.

Please show me exactly where i was insulting you.

Quote from BAMBO :

So let me resume what I said. Everyone has a different opinion on the subject, some like it, some don't and it's pretty oblivious we are not getting anywhere.

Not with this kind of attitude, i agree.

Quote from BAMBO :

says the man blind enough to only see half of my post and not fully comprehend what I was trying to say

You see, i do try to comprehend but seriously, there's just half of it really worth understanding while the rest ...well... is nonsense.

Quote from BAMBO :

You see, unlike alcohol or nicotine, marijuana will make you strongly addicted to it thus enhancing the danger of desperately wanting more by any means necessary

Sorry to bring that point back, but nicotine's addictiveness is about the level of heroin and causes both a phsychological and a physical addiction.

Well, S14, Since the thread was created by a drug user and the rest of the posts are by drug users, I think this thread (for us) has run its course. We aren't gonna get through to these people. Especially not ones called 510N3D.