Recently I've been noticing that the topic of games piracy has been coming up a fair bit on the forum. It's an important and uncomfortable topic (for gamers) because it seems these days it's easier than ever to get what you want, whenever you want it. Koroush Ghazi of Tweakguides has just written an excellent article on games piracy, it's a long article but it does go into a lot of depth, which is really what the subject needs.

The article is here (PC Game Piracy Examined).

I've been struggling with this issue for a while... I think I semi-admitted recently that I do occasionly pirate the odd game, yet at the same time I have a problem with this kind of behaviour. As the article points out, piracy is rife and is most definitely affecting the (PC) games industry in negative ways, which in turn of course affects gamers.

Anyway, the article is very good, it seems to dispell a lot of the myths surrounding games piracy and I recommend anyone who is interested or concerned about the future of PC gaming in general (should be most of us here) take the time to read through it if you haven't already.

If I can recall, I read an article that said the makers of Far Cry and Crysis decided not to make their games PC exclusive anymore because of piracy. I mean, from just one site that hosted torrents, Crysis was downloaded roughly 900,000+ times. That's a lot of money lost.

I want Call of Duty 4 so badly and I was considering pirating it, yet I couldn't get myself around to do it.

Plus there's the fact that there can be malicious stuff in there like viruses and spyware.

Quote from Scatter :

Crysis was downloaded roughly 900,000+ times. That's a lot of money lost.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Just because someone downloads a game doesn't mean they were ever going to buy it in the first place. Same goes for music. There will be some, but I think the majority of pirates had no intention of purchasing it in the first place.

Quote from Scatter :

I mean, from just one site that hosted torrents, Crysis was downloaded roughly 900,000+ times. That's a lot of money not gained.

Fixed that for you. I agree with Maggot.

The market of PC gamers isn't as large as they think it is. If Crisis wasn't pirateable (if, because there's no such thing), would you think it'd sell that much?

I don't think so! If it's not free or cheap, people aren't going to buy it. They'd better sell one million copies at the price of €20 each, than 100000 copies at the price of €50 each.

Quote from MAGGOT :

I don't necessarily agree with this. Just because someone downloads a game doesn't mean they were ever going to buy it in the first place. Same goes for music. There will be some, but I think the majority of pirates had no intention of purchasing it in the first place.

Very true. None of the games I've pirated in the past would i have bought. They haven't lost a penny from me.

As for music, piracy has introduced me to so many bands I've never heard of, and I've ended up buying loads more CD's than i would have if it weren't for pirating albums.

Long article, but didn't really contain anything that special and I felt it left some important things out. Also had some odd conclusions in my opinion.

an excellent read and one i am eagerly passing around for people to read.

i'll admit if do pirate, its mainly films and tv with a few games on the side, however these are more for me to try the game as theres is no demo, if i think its crap it gets binned as i want the hdd space back, however if its good then i will go an order it on play.com and enjoy playing it knowing my legit is in the post with my serial key allowing me to play online.

lets take an example of a great little game recent released called "a vampyre story"

there was a demo so i nabbed it, i played it and thorougly enjoyed it, off to play i go and i ordered it, however it wasnt in my region yet so i was a bit miffed as it was already out in germany, a quick pre order later and an exchange of funds meant i now owned a copy of it, off to certain newzgroups i go and grab it. whislt playing it it turns up in the post, much happyness later and im playing with my legit.

i think i must be one of the few who actually honor my preffered gaming format and it makes me sad that there are few exclusives for it these days

lack of demos is a major bugbear for me, i pre ordered farcry 2 and after installing the pirate was so disgusted at its shit consolification that i binned my order and uninstalled it.

Well, pirating is for people who either don't want to/can't afford to buy, or don't see a game 'fit' to buy. I bought Far Cry 2, but I downloaded Fallout 3. Why? Because Fallout 3 crashes every 10 seconds and if Bestheda think I'm paying money for the privelage of my computer crashing, they have another think coming!

Quote :

Just because someone downloads a game doesn't mean they were ever going to buy it in the first place. Same goes for music. There will be some, but I think the majority of pirates had no intention of purchasing it in the first place.

Is that because they know they can get hold of a pirate copy easily?

Music and games are slightly different issues in my mind. The problem with games is that a pirate copy is identical in quality to the original. Unless you're downloading music in a lossless format, the pirate copy will always be lower quality than what you will can get from a store bought. Most people who are serious about music will tell you that mp3 quality isn't good enough.. it's not doing the music justice at all- you're missing out on a lot of detail in the recording. In that way I use mp3 as a kind of demo (m4a is better) - it's a good way to quickly find out about different kinds of music without buying the cd first. On the other hand you can always sample the music in store and get a much better idea from there. The P2P thing is convenient though. There are a few CD's on my list to buy thanks to P2P, so in that way it can help sales.

edit: I've also been robbed of my bought collection a couple of times. I've been trying lately to get a lot of that stuff back through P2P, as it's simply too expensive and too difficult to replace legally. Sux but there isn't much alternative.

Note: This post may contain heavily biased views, hypocrisy, twisted moral principles, and short-sighted tunnel vision.

There's more than one type of games piracy. First there's the free piracy, where where the end-user doesn't pay for it separately. Second there's the organised pirates whose intent is to make profit.

1.
- I understand it's copyright infringement, punishable by law
- If/when I choose to do it, for whatever reason, I accept I could get penalised
- I see copy-protection as largely useless because it's either (i) bypassable, or (ii) limiting the end-user's fair use of a paid product
- I also don't see piracy as a way of expressing discontent with a developer/publisher
- If there is something that you don't like about a game, be it the lack of a demo (hai, iFailing), idiotic copy-protection (*force), licensed IP destroyed, price, pricing model etc., just don't buy it and move on. Pirating it for those reasons is a cheap and rubbish excuse for the convenience of not having to part with money
- Have you ever bought an album and thought it sucked? That's life, now you know to be wary of that group. What gives gamers the high ground to pirate anything they see on the grounds that they might not like it?
- "I pirate, if I like it I buy it". I understand there are people whose legitimate intent is to evaluate for purchase, but they're not the majority. If you don't see enough in the ways the publisher has given to you to get you to buy a product, they've failed. It was probably because they didn't want you to see how much the game sucked anyway. Just. Move. On.

2.
This is more than half-innocent, pretend moral high-ground. Making $$ out of it is criminal no matter which way I look at it. Lock this lot up, ty.

Ooooo, very, VERY thorny subject.

IMO, there is no real right or wrong on the subject.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Why? Because Fallout 3 crashes every 10 seconds and if Bestheda think I'm paying money for the privelage of my computer crashing, they have another think coming!

Another quality justification from S14. Good work.

I can only say the following.

The games these days are like 50 60 euro's new in the Dutch gulden years that would be nearly or over 100 Gulden and that is alot.

In thise days i could get dacent TV for that some coutries and companies stil have not adapted to this there for i can understand why people crack games and stuf.
I just dont understand how poeple can have money for a pc that is able to play those games maybe even record while playing.
Amd not be able to buy game they like but, I do support the fact that games shoudl become way cheaper even on first realease!!.

becaus lets face 50 euros what a new game costs these days is nearly half of what i get per monts working.

But there is a simple way aroudn this just buy the game when it has beighn out for a while and u have yourself a good game wich is maybe even an clasic.
And for half the rpice of what it was so what is the problem with a little patcience.
Althow i can show mercy to kids like me who only get very few mony and need top live iwth that games are getting unafordable for popel like me.
But that is where waiting comes in the game

Althow i have seign Iracing cracks goin round and i can realy undertsand that becaus for those prices i could buy realy nice things like tellies wheels new games......

So i say I can't stop u from cracking but it remains your risk of doing it and getting a fine wich is more expensive the game itself

I watch pirate films just to avoid being forced to sit through endless adverts about how evil piracy is, because they don't have any of those messages on pirate films. With games however I will try a pirate version and then if I like it I will buy the official version. I think games companies don't realise that they probably gain more sales because of piracy. I only get pirate copies of games that I had no intention of buying in the first place.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

I watch pirate films just to avoid being forced to sit through endless adverts about how evil piracy is, because they don't have any of those messages on pirate films.

Like this one?

I remember a time, when you couldn't afford something, you didn't have it....

'scuse me while I toodle off to the nearest Ferrari dealer and steal me an F430

Quote from danowat :

I remember a time, when you couldn't afford something, you didn't have it....

'scuse me while I toodle off to the nearest Ferrari dealer and steal me an F430

It's not like you were going to buy one anyway, so it's OK.

First of all, I have a problem with terms like "piracy" and "theft" in connection with software, music or films, because it's NOT stealing. Noone on earth will have one copy less if somebody downloads it. Of course, it's still unfair towards the creators, but it's not theft.

There's a very quick shake down of what piracy is harmful and what piracy isn't:

Making illegal copies and the selling them, most likely cheaper than the original, is the piracy that hurts sales the most. This kind of piracy is largely found in asia though, and not in western countries.

The odd download, though, does only a portion of the "damage" that is reported. I reality, i'd be surprised if it was a hundreth of the downloads that was "lost" in sale.

In my opinion though, all the entertainment industries just handle the problem wrongly. Instead of being more restrictive, they should be more open. There are just so many cases where a pirated version is more convenient and useful than an actual buy.

Just look at some cases:
I buy a game, I have limited installs, if I pirate it, I can it install as often as I want to. Sometimes, it's a problem if I change part of my hardware, let alone installing it on a new PC.

If there are multiple persons in a houshold that game, to play together over lan, each one has to buy his own copy. Or just use a pirated one.

If I buy a game, it installs malicous software (being copy protections or advertisment gathering tools), which won't happen with pirated software.

If I buy a game I don't like, it's very hard nowadays to get a refund or in some cases, even to give i to someone else. Pirated software's just deleted or burned to hand out.

And one thing concerning movies: If I buy a DVD, there are several, sometimes even unskippable, trailers, including ANTI-PIRACY spots, before being able to watch it. If I've pirated it, I can just watch the movie without that.

So IMHO, games, music and movies should become cheaper, more convenient to use (unlimited installs, special LAN install modes that allow multiplaying over lan wihout a CD, etc). It was like this 10 to 15 years ago. But nowadays, I feel i'm punished for the piracy if I buy a goddamn game.

Quote from danowat :

I remember a time, when you couldn't afford something, you didn't have it....

'scuse me while I toodle off to the nearest Ferrari dealer and steal me an F430

Quote from thisnameistaken :

It's not like you were going to buy one anyway, so it's OK.

And really, i've heard that the handling isn't all that great compared to the new caterham... MPG isn't very good on those cars either. If they think we're gonna pay for that...

Quote from ColeusRattus :

First of all, I have a problem with terms like "piracy" and "theft" in connection with software, music or films, because it's NOT stealing. Noone on earth will ahve one copy less if somebody downloads it. Of course, it's still unfair towards the creators, but it's not theft.

It's copyright infringment, which is still illegal.

Don't get me wrong, I have been bad, however, I understand I have been bad, but I don't try and justify it.

I think we al have to agree with the fact we al have beighn eleigal in this way.
I mean how did u think I got sony vegas:hidesbehiAnd some movies and that's about it so i believe in thuis way
we al have some cracked and elligal contend on our pc

Quote from danowat :

Don't get me wrong, I have been bad, however, I understand I have been bad, but I don't try and justify it.

I don't want to justify it (and as a matter of fact, I don't personally don't "pirate" games), i'm just put aback on how the industry treats the buying customers like "pirates".

On a sidenote, theft is governed by a crimnial law, while copyright infringements are a case of private law.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

I don't want to justify it (and as a matter of fact, I don't personally don't "pirate" games), i'm just put aback on how the industry treats the buying customers like "pirates".

On a sidenote, theft is governed by a crimnial law, while copyright infringements are a case of private law.

Well said
But Treating buying customers like pirates whats the point in that?
IMo you'l just lose them in no time

Quote from danowat :

I remember a time, when you couldn't afford something, you didn't have it....

'scuse me while I toodle off to the nearest Ferrari dealer and steal me an F430

I can afford it, I just think we deserve a decent test drive before we buy it, something a Ferrari dealership will offer you.

The problem devs will find now is antipiracy stuff is pushing more legitimate users to piracy. I have a collection of DVDs that I never use, because the ripped video plays on demand, I download my albums because a lot of them install shit on my PC. So far all I do with games is get NoCD patches, but if there isn't one I'll just download the ISO so I don't have to faf about with CDs all the time.

By trying to prevent piracy they make life inconvenient for legitimate users, if I have paid for a DVD I don't need to be told that pirates hurt the industry, I've paid for the damn thing. I stopped watching Battlestar Galactica because if all the piracy eats babies crap.