Group B cars should have been banned earlier, but the FIA waited until someone was killed before they scrapped it.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Group B cars should have been banned earlier, but the FIA waited until someone was killed before they scrapped it.

the thing that made them so unsafe was the roll cages
there was a crash in a lancia delta 2 years after the class was banned at the same sort of speed and the driver and co driver were fine
if they ahd the same amount of power and modern roll cages and other saftey eqipment the crashes would not have been fatal

The drivers knew the risks involved anyway. They were well aware that it was and is a dangerous sport.

it will better if BMW 320i join WRC

Quote from Tezuka :

Exactly how cheap is S2000spec compared to group N?

Depends on how hard-core your Grp N car is.

At minimum, a modern Grp N car at club level would be around 50,000 Euros. Note that I said "minimum". In reality, they cost a lot more if you want to be competitive at national or international level. In Australia a state-level Grp N car can be anywhere between AUD$30,000 (around 10 years or older) to 100,000 (two or three years old, mid-field); more for national-level cars.

S2000 cars are theoretically 168,000 Euros at most. That's according to regulations. In reality, they are sold for a bit more than that.

Quote from Shotglass :

"Of course these persons are an insult to real males"
yeah lets give him a makeover shall we?

ahhaha

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

They just got rid of Loeb then, so now the WRC will have boring cars and no talented drivers.

I thought talent visibility and competition levels go up if they made the cars really weak and identical?

Quote from Tezuka :

If the engines are the same, what would be the big difference?

Drivers?

Quote from wien :

S2000 allows AWD for rally cars (according to Wikipedia). Still bloody depressing though.

I don't see a reason to put AWD on a weak car.

Quote from richo :

They should be RWD cars so at least there's sideways action a plenty, like the days of Datsun 1600's and 180B SSS and Escorts.


Golden days of rallying..

And let's not forget FC3S Rally Cars .

Honestly, s2000 spec is going to ruin rallying.

What makes you think that, and what do you mean by "weak"?

2 liter restricted, rather then having powerful, antilaged turbocharged engines.

WRC cars have 2 litre restricted engines now.

group N is also restricted to the same volume & WRC S2000 will be running on turbocharged engines

Oh, okay, for some reason, I thought they were driving gremlins pumping 400-500 bhp and flies across paths instead of drive over them...

Sarcasm? I cannot tell.

The engines are restricted to 300bhp. Have been for quite a few years now.

Mmmm, no seriously, I thought that rally cars were supposed to be absolute beasts...

So you are telling me that... the Lan-Evos that we can buy are as powerful as the ones they use in the competitions?

not really, the main difference is in torque

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0 ... pecs-on-impreza-wrc-2008/

http://www.rsportscars.com/ford/2008-ford-focus-rs-wrc/

Quote from duke_toaster :

Group B cars should have been banned earlier, but the FIA waited until someone was killed before they scrapped it.

Common sense should have been applied to driver and spectator safety earlier so there would have been no reason to ban it. But maybe GrB was couple of years ahead of its time, in the 80s safety was so overlooked.

Quote from Tezuka :

not really, the main difference is in torque

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0 ... pecs-on-impreza-wrc-2008/

http://www.rsportscars.com/ford/2008-ford-focus-rs-wrc/

Btw, the STi is really slow, the Mazda Speed3 is so much faster.
(There might be a chance that the girl just sucks at driving, she just turned 17 a month ago)

um, what?

This rich girl who got an STi on her 16th... I had to work for my Miata...

</offtopic>

Quote from Intrepid :

no, my point was that rallying's excitement doesn't require car to car 'racing' so if one person always wins it still doesn't take away any of the sceptical. I didn't say it wasn't exciting, just that it's excitement isn't dependant on who wins.

I think you're just trying to be bloody minded and are fully aware that the element of competition, and not really knowing who is going to win a rally before hand or even who is leading it at any one time make rallying far more exciting to follow for the true enthusiast.

Quote from Alistair :

the thing that made them so unsafe was the roll cages
there was a crash in a lancia delta 2 years after the class was banned at the same sort of speed and the driver and co driver were fine
if they ahd the same amount of power and modern roll cages and other saftey eqipment the crashes would not have been fatal

The main safety issues with Group B cars were cars going into the crowds. Other than that the main issue that can be directly related to the cars (and driver safety) was the fuel tank positioning, usually at the front of the car in mid-engined cars which made them highly vulnerable to huge fires when they hit stuff, modern rally cars rarely catch fire but still carry a large quantity of fuel and if one does go up there is still no effective solution to put it out quickly enough to have any hope of saving drivers.

Rollcages haven't changed much since the Group B era, the only significant change is aluminium has been banned on grounds of safety, due to poor welds failing, though the difficulty of welding aluminium was unlikely to effect works teams.

ssm - what do you think is the top speed of a wrc car ? :>
Anyhow, S2000 handling looks more like an RB4 in lfs... an underpowered 4wd... Well I know im not completely right, but to me it looks, like s2000, isn't that much faster than a beast N4 ... and well When they say replace wrc.. it more feels like, WRC is just taken away, and the drivers will be places in slightly improved N4 type of cars.. I mean that the pinacle will just be taken away, and one more class will be added to the 2nd class... I really don't feel it will look or feel as good as watching wrc cars going @ it... Ofc I may be wrong... but as far as I've seen s2000 cars in action, it just really looks like they are killing the fun...

and I can't tell if ssm is being sarcastic (alot) or just doesn't quite grasp the cars in question manners...don't go comparing a street car to a purpouse built car, the power figures are really the least difference, the power delivery, weight probably, fuel managment blaah lbaah blaah... they are meant to get up to speed fast with their 300horses, not to get a really nice top speed or have a reasonable fuel consumption ;p + the torques are just WOW ;D
ok sry.. i just felt like typing what went through my mind.. IMHO.. I don't see s2000 being as exciting as WRC... It's just the money, not that there is something wrong with WRC cars.. its all about the money ;D

Quote from evilgenius :

ssm - what do you think is the top speed of a wrc car ? :>
Anyhow, S2000 handling looks more like an RB4 in lfs... an underpowered 4wd... Well I know im not completely right, but to me it looks, like s2000, isn't that much faster than a beast N4 ... and well When they say replace wrc.. it more feels like, WRC is just taken away, and the drivers will be places in slightly improved N4 type of cars.. I mean that the pinacle will just be taken away, and one more class will be added to the 2nd class... I really don't feel it will look or feel as good as watching wrc cars going @ it... Ofc I may be wrong... but as far as I've seen s2000 cars in action, it just really looks like they are killing the fun...

and I can't tell if ssm is being sarcastic (alot) or just doesn't quite grasp the cars in question manners...don't go comparing a street car to a purpouse built car, the power figures are really the least difference, the power delivery, weight probably, fuel managment blaah lbaah blaah... they are meant to get up to speed fast with their 300horses, not to get a really nice top speed or have a reasonable fuel consumption ;p + the torques are just WOW ;D
ok sry.. i just felt like typing what went through my mind.. IMHO.. I don't see s2000 being as exciting as WRC... It's just the money, not that there is something wrong with WRC cars.. its all about the money ;D

Top speed.. I would imagine it is short ratio box so... Idk, 130-40?

So basically, in the future they would be racing with something akin to an STi that a kid "modded"?

To put the speed of a WRC in perspective. They have a top speed similar to their road car counterpart, but can accelerate up to 60 in about the same time a Formula One car can do it.

Quote from ssm :

Top speed.. I would imagine it is short ratio box so... Idk, 130-40?

So basically, in the future they would be racing with something akin to an STi that a kid "modded"?

With short ratio gearbox, probbaby around 110-120, rather than 140. With 'normal' gearing, as Gills said, probbably the same as their road counterparts. Damn quick though, either way.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I think it's the death of rally as it is. Those powerless fwds is not rally car should be. I understand the reasons why they didn't make it rwd series only but fwd and non-turbo low hp engines...not interested at all. What makes a rally car is extremely good acceleration and four wheel drive imho, and these allow the cars to be driven sideways which is what makes rallying what it is. Extremely fast, daring and the cars even look that they are going fast. I don't care about some S2000 rallycars which will most probably be a tad quicker than some Junior World Rally Championship rally cars. And probably will be slower at tarmac.

I really really really hope that this opens the window for rallycross to rise back to the nr.1 offroad motorsport which it should be. Cars that have power and races that look like business. I say RIP rally, welcome rallycross!

The Super 2000 rallycars are also 4wd! the super 1600 / junior wrc is FWD

i think it is a good thing! the WRC like we have them now are far to expensive! whe have now only a few brands with one pointing out of it. The S-2000 cars are a lot cheaper! beautifull cars and engine sound!! Lot of brands: VW polo, OPEL corsa, PEUGEOT 207, FIAT punto, SKODA fabia, Proton satria neo, Toyota corolla, toyota auris,Honda Civic, MG, Ford fiesta.

and probably subaru, mitsubishi, suzuki, citroen will build a s-2000 to!

so i don't see any negative points.. only good filled start fields with a lot of potention


see more at http://www.s2000rally.com