Yeah! I hoped that to happen: I no longer need to be angry about the collision of my Christmas holiday with the Scirocco's introduction. So I can be AFK for some days with a clear conscience!

To make it clear, I thoroughly back the decision of the devs and wait patiently. (Hopefully not until Christ-mess 2009. )

Wow, just wow, at some of the whingeing going on in here. The LFS devs are a dying breed and people who are crying their little eyes out because the Scirocco wont be available until after the holidays could do well to remember that. Were lucky that LFS not only exists but continues to expand.

heres something to put things into perspective for yas.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vbIGbZ6gq_Y

You're still coming round to see us all with mistletoe right? You're not going to renee on that aswell are you Scawen?

On the discussion about the cost of LFS and the wealth, I do have some educated insight into the machinery running, I wont go into details but I can say you've woefully under-estimated the hardware cost alone, let alone the rack rental etc. None-the-less LFS is 'healthy' financially.

What's more the business model is still based on Scawen "I'm not really a communist" Robert's ideal of how he wants to live his life, so you're not being screwed for additional money left right and centre like you would be if this game was being made by Sony or EA.

LFS is and remains an excellent product and superb value for money. As for the incomes of the devs, frankly, given their industry, skills, expertise, and risk associated with game development if they earn any less than quarter million a year then they are mugs.

I can confirm they are mugs.

@all complaint posts:
And you see THIS is exactly why there's no ETA on S3. You give an estimate, something goes wrong, you miss it and people throw all their toys out of the pram.

It's disappointing, but I'd rather it took longer and all the bugs were ironed out, than it goes live on time and we have to put up with endless whinging (and the inevitable deluge of unsearched new posts) that came after.

Quote from Becky Rose :

You're still coming round to see us all with mistletoe right? You're not going to renee on that aswell are you Scawen?

On the discussion about the cost of LFS and the wealth, I do have some educated insight into the machinery running, I wont go into details but I can say you've woefully under-estimated the hardware cost alone, let alone the rack rental etc. None-the-less LFS is 'healthy' financially.

What's more the business model is still based on Scawen "I'm not really a communist" Robert's ideal of how he wants to live his life, so you're not being screwed for additional money left right and centre like you would be if this game was being made by Sony or EA.

LFS is and remains an excellent product and superb value for money. As for the incomes of the devs, frankly, given their industry, skills, expertise, and risk associated with game development if they earn any less than quarter million a year then they are mugs.

I can confirm they are mugs.

Not to mention that

a) If this game was made by EA, this game in its current State (Z) would be called Live for Speed 4. Of course, we'd have paid about 200 quid for LFS (1, 2, 3 and 4) by now.

b) If this game was made by EA, we WOULD get the Scirocco by Friday (EA never miss a once-set release date), but it would be utter crap. EA would sell the fix for the scirocco along with a few more just-as-crappy-implemented cars (Maybe a Porsche and 1 or 2 Ferraris without any damage model) as LFS 5.



...

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm glad that the devs DID have the guts to postpone the release.

Quote from St4Lk3R :

snip

LOL thats exactly what EA would do.

Anyway, I'm glad we're going to get a high quality car instead of a broken one.

Mmh i hope the VWS default setup will not be understeery and boring :O

Quote from Rotary :

There is no need to adjust or have a set brake force in LFS. It's simple, really, ABS only engages when it detects a wheel locking/skidding. ABS is independant of the Brake Force setting.

So, in LFS, if your brake force is low you will be less likely to lock/skid the wheels and therefore ABS won't engage that often. If you set the brake force high, it will be easier for you to lock/skid your wheels when braking and therefore ABS will kick in more often. Just like now, it's just a matter of testing the setup on the track to find the braking threshold.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain!

I understand what you're trying to say, but you're just wrong in this case. ABS is directly dependant on brake force setting (in LFS) and since brakes aren't pressure sensitive - that is the problem. Obviously, if the Scirocco is made to have 2000 Nm brakes a full travel of the pedal will cause all wheels to lock up at any speed, I'm not saying threshold braking will be impossible to perform - it will be doable, but only if you start using 40-60 % of the brake pedal travel - which will make it stand out from all the other cars in LFS (in a way that it needs to be driven completley different). The current setup options allow for everyone to use the brake force they are comfortable with or that is suited for a particular track, albeit, "default" values are pretty much known: STD is fine with 700-800 Nm, TBO with around 1000-1100 Nm, GTR with 1800-2000 Nm and so on. My conclusion is that the Scirocco should be set to a fixed force value around what is the norm for the rest of the TBO class, since 1100 Nm on a FXO will lock up the rear wheels under heavy braking, and ABS kicking in at that point would be the optimal way to stop a car - but this would differe from a real life Scirocco since you wouldn't be able to lock all 4 wheels in straight-line braking. But I guess some compromise has to be made between real life and simulation.

Three great decision by the devs! Number One: limited setup - just makes a lot of sense in a real road car. Number two: postpone it, because its not ready, thats the only way to go. Number three: To TELL us about it!!! Thats the only critisizm i can make during my time with lfs, which is several years. The information policy about ongoing development has been a weak point. Sometimes i thought lfs was dead. Now we have some information, we know what is to come, where the problems are... And sure as sh*t, people are whining. Now i see, why the devs usually kept quiet. I am sorry to see that and i hope that the devs keep us informed in the future, despite some of the reactions here. Thx.

Also thx to bramski for the video-link - awesome interview.

Quote from ORION :

Mmh i hope the VWS default setup will not be understeery and boring :O

If you watch the Scirocco video, you'll see that the car gets loose under braking (external cam when it pulls to a stop in the autocross), and it even lifts the inside rear wheel off the ground once. I think it'll be a decent setup.

If you´r going to say that it stinks that VW is delayed, Think how much developers are sad because it delayed and they had to move the VW: S Adding to game.
Yes Some of us are a bit sad cause it went late.
I Think That Developers do not like that people start to say all bad things about them, that they did it on purpose ect...
They want to make car so good that no one (and i mean NO ONE) starts
ANOTHER THREAD where they say it has bugs and it is not realistic.
Before you make new whining reply about how sad you are.
Guess What... NO ONE DOES NOT CARE A BIT HOW SAD YOU ARE, no one want to read how it is so from .....

Think positive, don´t negative

T: Kerodal LFS Fan Forever
DONT GIVE UP ON HOPE OR YOU LOOSE EVERYTHING

Quote from RS1T :

if i knew that my 24 pounds was paying the dev's salaries and not towards the development of the game, then i would not have bought s2. Also many users are from europe where VAT is a LOT less than in the UK...they have no excuse for charging so much for an unfinished product

illepall Yeah, shame on them, wanting to earn a salary with their work. I even heard they pay their bills with it, can you believe it? ... grow up please.

Quote from Eldanor :

illepall Yeah, shame on them, wanting to earn a salary with their work. I even heard they pay their bills with it, can you believe it? ... grow up please.

I dont see the problem in that? You have your product? shhhh then.

Quote from Takumi_lfs :

I dont see the problem in that? You have your product? shhhh then.

He was being sarcastic

Quote from Takumi_lfs :

I dont see the problem in that? You have your product? shhhh then.

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

He was being sarcastic

Hehe, the british sarcasm detector never fails

i know i'm a demo racer but i'm glad they postponed it no one wants to drive a car with bugs in it.

Quote from Eldanor :

Hehe, the british sarcasm detector never fails

My sarcasm senses tingling... :hide:

Seriously Takumi how could you miss the sarcasm there !? :doh:

Full marks and congratulations on being brave enough to defer the launch until you are 100% happy.

I also run another sim that shall remain namless (oh alright then, Trainz), and they have a habit of doing exactly the opposite, which is most annoying.

Quote from scipy :

Obviously, if the Scirocco is made to have 2000 Nm brakes a full travel of the pedal will cause all wheels to lock up at any speed, I'm not saying threshold braking will be impossible to perform - it will be doable, but only if you start using 40-60 % of the brake pedal travel - which will make it stand out from all the other cars in LFS (in a way that it needs to be driven completley different).

GOOD, imo... Give the cars more character, maybe that gets rid of the "1 car used only"-classes...

i am dissapointed at not getting the scirocco soon, i think everyone is, but i think it is still the right decision made by scavier. and anyway, wasnt it scawen who said he didnt like putting deadlines on stuff for the past, i dunno, 5 years? i wounder why

Quote from tubaman :

i know i'm a demo racer but i'm glad they postponed it no one wants to drive a car with bugs in it.

My car got infested with palmetto bugs once. It sucked.

I haven't bothered reading the whole thread because I'm sure it will be full of un-greatful sods moaning and complaining at having to wait an extra few days / weeks for the VWS to arrive.

Good things come to those who wait. If it takes a little longer to arrive so that it is better by the time it's realeased, good, that's what we want. First impressions count for everything; if they released it too early and it wasn't properly finished - few bugs here and there etc - more people would think they've done a crap job and wouldn't bother returning to LFS. Get it right from the off, however, and people will enjoy driving the car and'll want to play it more often.

Great news about the limited setup options, exactly what I was hoping for.

Thanks devs!

For now im just goin to say this to al the winers out there.

Programmign takes alot of time if you even take into acount that Scawen is indeed a father of two childs.
Wis comsumes more time then the distruction of a planet.
U coul only unbderstand this if u have experiences with kids.

So to scawnen and the other devs gooodm luck
and Scawen good luck with the kdis and LFS

Great news....it will be even better than expected.

Real brand new road car! real setups! real ABS! real ambiant shadows! Amazing, I was almost sure VW would not let Scawen use the Scirocco, so glad I was wrong!

I did not read everything... but at least in the first 6 pages none of the guys complaining LOUDLY thought a single instant that Scawen could not work anymore this week because of a serious reason.
"What? No Chrismas gift? WHAT? NO CHRISMAS GIFT???? But I paid you 24 pounds two years ago, you *****, and you can't even work this week??? Aren't you ashamed? How could you? I don't want to know your stupid reasons... nothing can justify your crime."

I have not read the thread but thought I would just chip in my 2c as I was quite vocal in another 'whinging' thread.

I would just like to thank Scawen for..

A) Letting us know the progress of the Scirocco.
B) Taking the time to _really_ polish the new VW as it shows how much you really do care about LFS and us, the users.
C) Some of the other updates in this patch series, loving it.