Quote from spanks :

I countersteer and it snaps the other way. I don't countersteer and it still snaps the other way.

Is it possible to induce understeer by steering inwards on this car? I made a video of an extreme example of this in LFS with the LX6 back in the S1 days, and this same method worked well in Grand Prix Legends, which is the base engine used for iRacing, and it also is used in real life for some twitchy cars, mostly to counter lift throttle oversteer, or throttle induced oversteer during very high speed turns. Again this video is an extreme example, to make it obvious what's going on:

http://jeffareid.net/lfs/lx6.wmv

This one, from GPL, is more subtle, some induced understeer during corner entry, counter steer on corner exit, and a bit of induced understeer on the high speed turn on the back half of the track. Dual view so you can see the cockpit and the chase view at the same time:

http://jeffareid.net/gpl/gplrngs.wmv

Corvette ZR1 at Norschleife, lots of steering inputs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66L36oDfKn8&fmt=18

ACR Viper at Nordschleife (the ACR has significant downforce, up to 1000lbs):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Xoo5hmU9U&fmt=18

Quote from Gabkicks :

hehe yeah. iracing, any side to side contact is a 4x penalty... my safety rating is only 3.36... Trying to get up to 4.0 so i can race the mazda now...

when i make contact w/ people in ctra, it doesnt annoy me anywhere near as much as in iRacing.

The annoyance is on totally new level when someone drives into you causing you to end your race. Your car is total wreck and you see that green text on top of the window... *throws wheel through the window*.

I think a safey rating system is fine, great and all that but imho it fails heavily on two things: first it doesn't teach you anything and at no point you are told what you did wrong and why you got those incident points. The second part is the no-fault ideology behind the sr. "The system does not make difference between who is at fault and who got the short end of the stick". Imho that is no way to make rules or observe them.

Quote from JeffR :

ACR Viper at Nordschleife (the ACR has significant downforce, up to 1000lbs):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Xoo5hmU9U&fmt=18

has he never driven a manual before?
anyway i dont see that silly technique in either of the real videos and the only reason it worked so well in s1 is because of the massive dropoff in the lateral curves back then which has since been corrected
unless you manage to instantly add some 20-30° of steering input it will not have a significant effect on balance

Quote from JeffR :

That same AutoSimSport article also mentions the ARC team simulators, which is the specialized equipment (hardware). Then a product like rFactor Pro is used to provide the software, using modified physics (to match the team's car specs) or a new physics model. Obviously this costs a lot more than iRacing, but it's not prohibitive for a lot of racing teams (well at least until this year when the economy went bad).

If all a driver wants it a general knowlege of a car and track combination, rFactor is currently a better choice because of the sheer number of tracks and cars available via add-ons. The actual physics isn't that critical, because no sim is that accurate, one glaring bit of evidence of this is that the braking points for real car and track combinations rarely end up being the same in any consumer type simulator, including iRacing.

I think it's a pretty interesting subject. As far as racing team interests go, there are a lot of spec racing series these days, and in those cases providing customized models or the ability to use them for each team isn't necessary for a real life training software provider (think all the different spec Formula series, SCCA sports car series etc.).

For more open classes with big budget teams the rFactor-Pro type of deal will surely be more suitable than iRacing who are at least not yet planning to make customizations of their software (as far as I know). However, for the interests of spec series the financial model of iRacing (dividing the cost of accurate track and car scanning between thousands of hobbyist sim racers) could well result in a much more attractive deal than just using rFactor's user-created mods of varying standards. Even if the actual physics weren't that critical (as you say), there's a big difference between tracks done with laser scanning and those done without it, and I'm sure the users will appreciate car modeling based on real data, too.

Quote from Shotglass :

has he never driven a manual before?

That thing just isn't geared for the Ring. Flappy paddles would solve that problem though.

Quote from Shotglass :

has he never driven a manual before?

Tom Coronel took part in the 24h of the Nürburgring for quite some time now, with a Viper (albeit the old one)... But I'm sure you could teach him to drive properly... :rolleyes:

Quote from JeffR :

Is it possible to induce understeer by steering inwards on this car?

Quote from Shotglass :

I dont see that silly technique in either of the real videos.

Those cars don't have that problem. However I've read threads at real racing forums and a few guys use this technique for twitchy cars, such as a Clio or a NSX. Try driving just about any car on a high speed oval without significant rear downforce and the threat of oversteer is there (because the car is at full throttle just to maintain speed in a high speed turn). There's a balance point where steering inwards can be used to keep a car essentially drifting and not understeering or oversteering. By steering a bit inwards, if the car starts to oversteer, the fronts being turned inwards, end up with a higher still slip angle, and depending on the setup, the front end slides along with the rear, maintaining a drift instead of oversteering.

The issue here is iRacing though, and since it's engine is based on the same one as Grand Prix Legends where induced understeer works well, it may work better in iRacing than it would in the real world equivalent of those same cars. It wouldn't hurt to at least try it during a test session to see what happens.

Quote from Liff :

interests of spec series ... there's a big difference between tracks done with laser scanning and those done without it.

I don't know when there is a point of diminishing returns. Is laser scanning versus GPS sampling that much better, especially over time and after a track has been repaved for a new season?

Quote :

I'm sure the users will appreciate car modeling based on real data, too.

Where does this real data come from? How many cars have most of the moving components instrumented and data captured during actual runs other than Formula 1 teams with their multi-million dollar budgets?

Quote from JeffR :

It wouldn't hurt to at least try it during a test session to see what happens.

it probably would since unlike your videos particularly the lfs one you wouldnt be able to turn the wheel 540° in less than a second in real life which will most likely lead to some very nasty oversteer

Quote from JeffR :

Is it possible to induce understeer by steering inwards on this car?

Quote from JeffR :

It wouldn't hurt to at least try it during a test session to see what happens.

Quote from Shotglass :

it probably would since unlike your videos particularly the lfs one you wouldnt be able to turn the wheel 540° in less than a second in real life which will most likely lead to some very nasty oversteer

Note that some real life club racers use this method. The guy with the Clio stated he could just steer inwards a bit more than normal and it would stabilize the Clio in high speed turns, resulting in a drift response instead of an oversteer response, more of a preventive measure than a recovery method. The issue for the Clio was that when setup to turn well in slower turns with paritial throttle, the Clio tended to become oversteer prone in higher speed with heavier throttle, or some bumpy turns. Using induced understeer stabilized the Clio in these situations, so he didn't have to compromise with a less oversteer prone setup.

I've tried induced understeer in a deserted parking lot in a few real cars, my version of quality time on a skid pad. I'd hold the steering inwards at a fixed position, then gradually increased speed until the car was at the limits, then tried variations of steering and throttle inputs. Once at the apparent limits, I found I could steer inwards a bit more without much noticable difference, but just a bit more beyond this and induced understeer became evident. Once the car was in understeer mode, I could modulate the throttle more without inducing oversteer.

Anyway, getting back to iRacing, induced understeer worked well with Grand Prix Legends, so it would be worth a shot to test this with iRacing's physics engine, perhaps just steering an extra bit inwards in the car will help stabilize it, as mentioned by the guy that raced the real world Clio.

The mazda is not progressive at all in oversteering, or regaining traction. If you were to turn inward as fast as you could you'd likely just turn off the track.

There's not really time to do it if you get in a slide either as they don't last very long, and the front end still has loads of grip.

Quote from spanks :

The mazda is not progressive at all in oversteering, or regaining traction. If you were to turn inward as fast as you could you'd likely just turn off the track.

There's not really time to do it if you get in a slide either as they don't last very long, and the front end still has loads of grip.

Did those sets help at all spanks? Try calibrating differently for the mazda? I'm convinced the snap problem can be at least partially remedied by steering calibration.

hi i just got this for a month and i must say this game really rocks everything feels perfected this is definetly worth a try and is definatly worth the price

Quote from titanLS :

Did those sets help at all spanks? Try calibrating differently for the mazda? I'm convinced the snap problem can be at least partially remedied by steering calibration.

Hey, sorry I never got back to you.

The setups are awesome. It actually drives like a real car...I got into some high speed slides that didn't result in instant snap spins, and the car was much more progressive in nature.

I still can't race like I used to, I just don't do it enough anymore. No setup can help that. That's why I'm really hoping the new cars are released soon...need something to really spark my interest again.

Woohooo! Rookie class in the solstice is at Lime Rock Park again! I love this combination...

Quote from jibber :

Woohooo! Rookie class in the solstice is at Lime Rock Park again! I love this combination...

Im racing that too, whats your name? I will have to watch out for you.

Quote from Tezuka :

Since there's alot of LFS players that that have played iracing on the forums, I would like to know how FIRST stacks up against CTRA?

Systems are very different, but personally biggest difference for me is the competition. I'm currently having a small iRacing break and jumped on CTRA couple times to satisfy any short urges, but if you've used to drive within the limits set by safety rating system, it's really tough to adjust into typical public racing. Collisions happen a lot, you need to push your way through or be pushed away and you generally can't rely on overtaking car to use his brakes instead of your door when he takes inside line into corner.

Oh well, I guess I should get a job and re-activate my iRacing account instead of ranting here

Quote from racer hero :

Im racing that too, whats your name? I will have to watch out for you.

My racer name is Johannes Gygax. However, my name is Jonas... i tried to have them change it... but they don't seem to look at my e-mails.

I finally tried this simulator.


The biggest difference I could tell from other simulators is the asphalt
condition and how believable it drives over those bumps and imperfections.
(although in replays, you see the car floating a lot)


skip barber + Lime rock is awesome. But I don't really "feel" the radical and
madza. At least not when compared to the experience of barber.
Graphics are spot on. The color composition is very good. Overall is very
very realistic.


Still, I'm not convinced to buy it.
If it was a one time purchase, the regular 59€, it would be a done deal
But because although it seems there is many content, 70% of it is for ovals. The other 30% of the game
is not enough to couch a >100€ subscription in which you still have to pay
for additional stuff as it comes out.


For the type of racer I am, there are way too many ovals and very few
"good" regular tracks.
ps: where are European tracks?
I feel this game is made for Texan-Americans-drivers.
Too bad because I like the driving

Quote from spyshagg :

I finally tried this simulator.


The biggest difference I could tell from other simulators is the asphalt
condition and how believable it drives over those bumps and imperfections.
(although in replays, you see the car floating a lot)


skip barber + Lime rock is awesome. But I don't really "feel" the radical and
madza. At least not when compared to the experience of barber.
Graphics are spot on. The color composition is very good. Overall is very
very realistic.


Still, I'm not convinced to buy it.
If it was a one time purchase, the regular 59€, it would be a done deal
But because although it seems there is many content, 70% of it is for ovals. The other 30% of the game
is not enough to couch a >100€ subscription in which you still have to pay
for additional stuff as it comes out.


For the type of racer I am, there are way too many ovals and very few
"good" regular tracks.
ps: where are European tracks?
I feel this game is made for Texan-Americans-drivers.
Too bad because I like the driving

It is based out of Boston, so that could be why there is more ovals and oval tracks now, but they do have a corvette, a Daytona Prototype, and a Lotus 79 F1 car, all in the making at the moment. I have also heard about drag racing coming in late to mid 2009.

Has anyone else heard about any of these "rumours"?

there is also karting due to come in the future too......

Quote from StableX :

there is also karting due to come in the future too......

How the hell are Karters going to cope with safety ratings

Quote from The Moose :

How the hell are Karters going to cope with safety ratings

By driving very very carefully

I'm assuming Legends Road Cup would be good training ground for that.

Quote from The Moose :

How the hell are Karters going to cope with safety ratings

They'll drop down into the negative numbers.

It might be a good idea to have another SR for karting. Maybe one that is a bit less strict would be nice.

Quote from racer hero :

It is based out of South Boston

It's based out of Boston, Massachusetts. South Boston is a city in Virginia.