Quote from Hyperactive :

(jokes aside, there is something sick wrong with the front suspension in nk in the fastest single seater? It's like the front suspensions, or springs are connected together but not to the car which makes the front suspension act like the frot axle ones used on tractors. The springs should counter that movement but they don't which makes the front suspension sick wrong imho)

You should bring it up over there as well, and maybe it can work its way into a fix.

Quote from Hyperactive :

New science: the front arb controls the roll of front axle. No front arb: makxsimum roll (and rofl)

made my day (at least until i get to watch top gear)

Quote from zeugnimod :

How can I see the other 200 servers?

by paying 36€ id guess

Quote from Shotglass :

by paying 36€ id guess

Oh, I thought demo and licenced servers were seperated.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Do I have to open a port or something to be able to see all multiplayer servers? I can see some servers but it says they are only 23 of 224 servers. How can I see the other 200 servers?

Quote from Shotglass :

by paying 36€ id guess

I don't think so, I'm fully licensed and still see about 30ish servers.

Quote from The Moose :

Its not competition for LFS, just like iRacing isn't competition for LFS. I see it as just another sim any single seater fan should have in their collection. Have all three sims, they complement each other as they all provide a different experience.

Thanks for reply.

Regards john

Quote from Hyperactive :

New science: the front arb controls the roll of front axle. No front arb: makxsimum roll (and rofl):


(jokes aside, there is something sick wrong with the front suspension in nk in the fastest single seater? It's like the front suspensions, or springs are connected together but not to the car which makes the front suspension act like the frot axle ones used on tractors. The springs should counter that movement but they don't which makes the front suspension sick wrong imho)

All I changed was front arb to 0. I didn't even use brakes, I just put that text o the screenie to make it more roffle. The suspension did not break orwas broken to start with either.

It's called a monoshock - the 'roll bar' does not work like a conventional bar.

On a normal torsion bar, when one wheel goes up the other one tries to go up (because the bar doesn't want to twist). But with a shuttle type monoshock when one wheel goes up, the other goes down. So, in some ways the monoshock is pro-roll but with a roll stiffness. Get rid of the roll stiffness (which ranges from about 1500N/mm to 21500N/mm in real life) and you would get something silly. Of course, the real monoshock runs out of travel after about 10mm of lateral movement...

Sadly, it seems as though the simulation of that system is incomplete - the limits aren't enforced at all, and the units are just so far out it's unbelievable. Setups in LFS are a bit silly (and the monoshock of the FBM isn't even attempted. Yet), but at least correspond to real life values - see Bob's setup program. But in nKP there are units whole factors of ten out, or meaningless figures (ride height)...

Is the Target based on the '05 Dallara? I'll try and get hold of a manual for it. Someone can then forward it to Kunos, and I'll be happy to explain to him what it means and how it's supposed to work.

Quote from tristancliffe :

It's called a monoshock - the 'roll bar' does not work like a conventional bar.

On a normal torsion bar, when one wheel goes up the other one tries to go up (because the bar doesn't want to twist). But with a shuttle type monoshock when one wheel goes up, the other goes down. So, in some ways the monoshock is pro-roll but with a roll stiffness. Get rid of the roll stiffness (which ranges from about 1500N/mm to 21500N/mm in real life) and you would get something silly. Of course, the real monoshock runs out of travel after about 10mm of lateral movement...

Sadly, it seems as though the simulation of that system is incomplete - the limits aren't enforced at all, and the units are just so far out it's unbelievable. Setups in LFS are a bit silly (and the monoshock of the FBM isn't even attempted. Yet), but at least correspond to real life values - see Bob's setup program. But in nKP there are units whole factors of ten out, or meaningless figures (ride height)...

Is the Target based on the '05 Dallara? I'll try and get hold of a manual for it. Someone can then forward it to Kunos, and I'll be happy to explain to him what it means and how it's supposed to work.

That sound's like a good idea

Maybe it could come in the next version or more likely in V2.

Quote from Hyperactive :

New science: the front arb controls the roll of front axle. No front arb: makxsimum roll (and rofl):

lolled at, and reported

No wonder no one ever noticed that in testing. Who on earth would think of running that car with no ARB? You were really thinking out of the box with that one.

Quote from The Moose :

lolled at, and reported

No wonder no one ever noticed that in testing. Who on earth would think of running that car with no ARB? You were really thinking out of the box with that one.

Seem's no matter how much testing we do people alway's manage to find problem's

Quote from The Moose :

No wonder no one ever noticed that in testing. Who on earth would think of running that car with no ARB? You were really thinking out of the box with that one.

serious advice on testing:
press every key and combination there is and generally act like a complete idiot because your customers are complete idiots
one of the biggest mistakes you can do while betatesting is using the product the way its intended to

Quote from Shotglass :

serious advice on testing:
press every key and combination there is and generally act like a complete idiot because your customers are complete idiots
one of the biggest mistakes you can do while betatesting is using the product the way its intended to

There were a good 30 people testing, and many weird thing were tried, but running no ARB obviously wasn't one of them. At times we were so focused on really major issues that some thing are always going to be overlooked.

Lets just hope Kunos goes down the road of public test patches from now on. Hundreds of people testing would have revealed stuff like that.

well on the bright side it is the kind of honest mistake a proper physics engine built on formulae instead of excel spreadsheets will bring about if you push it past its boundaries
its not what youd call realistic but it shows that the foundatiouns arent entirely rubbish
plus it can really brighten ones day... almost enough to make me buy it just to try that out

Quote from tristancliffe :

It's called a monoshock - the 'roll bar' does not work like a conventional bar.

On a normal torsion bar, when one wheel goes up the other one tries to go up (because the bar doesn't want to twist). But with a shuttle type monoshock when one wheel goes up, the other goes down. So, in some ways the monoshock is pro-roll but with a roll stiffness. Get rid of the roll stiffness (which ranges from about 1500N/mm to 21500N/mm in real life) and you would get something silly. Of course, the real monoshock runs out of travel after about 10mm of lateral movement...

Sadly, it seems as though the simulation of that system is incomplete - the limits aren't enforced at all, and the units are just so far out it's unbelievable. Setups in LFS are a bit silly (and the monoshock of the FBM isn't even attempted. Yet), but at least correspond to real life values - see Bob's setup program. But in nKP there are units whole factors of ten out, or meaningless figures (ride height)...

http://scarbsf1.com/Monoshock.html
http://www.insideracingtechnology.com/phnxtst.htm
A-ha! I'ts almost like in tractors!

Anyways, at least there is enough travel. I'd guess such system is adjustable in real life (you can change the springs and fluids (does it have a damper)). Still, nice to see that stuff like that is in the sim.

Quote from The Moose :

Who on earth would think of running that car with no ARB? You were really thinking out of the box with that one.

Quote from Shotglass :

serious advice on testing:
press every key and combination there is and generally act like a complete idiot because your customers are complete idiots

(all I want is corner entry oversteer :shy

Got a few good races in. It wasn't a wreck fest at all. Yup... I like it a lot. Still feels the most natural of the big 3 sims.

I particularly like how the car handles understeer. When you back off the throttle the car tightens in a kind of elastic fashion. This is how it feels in real life. This is the kind of dynamism that really brings NK to life. As opposed to LFS and iR where it feels like a very dead and linear decrease in radius as you scrub speed.

Driving in LFS feels like Guitar Hero. You press the right pedals at the right time, and the result is always predictable, always the same. Particularly so with the FBM.

Quote from Hyperactive :

(all I want is corner entry oversteer :shy

youre not going to claim that this is the first thing a person who is in posession of a full set of marbles is going to think of are you?

Quote from Hyperactive :

http://scarbsf1.com/Monoshock.html
http://www.insideracingtechnology.com/phnxtst.htm
A-ha! I'ts almost like in tractors!

Anyways, at least there is enough travel. I'd guess such system is adjustable in real life (you can change the springs and fluids (does it have a damper)). Still, nice to see that stuff like that is in the sim.

Monoshocks normally use a single coil over mounted in exactly the same place as a conventional contemporary single seater has its coils (see the first two pictures of your second link). The shock only works for bump so limits vertical travel but has no effect on roll. With a setup like this roll has to be taken account of seperately, if the lateral movement wasn't controlled the suspension rods/shock mountings would simply be ripped out of the car long before any large amounts of visible roll had occured. The anti-roll has to allow enough lateral movement to allow the right amount of roll, in reality I think this is just a very heavy undamped spring on our monoshock car.

Monoshocks have a few advantages, mainly that they allow independant adjustment of roll/bump, are much better for packing, reduce weight and potentially allow quicker/simpler adjustments (not always the case because the actual loadings through the system make it much harder to change shocks/adjust the anti-roll bar). The theory is that having dependant front (and occasionally rear) suspension is not a big issue for racing cars beacause the tracks are smooth enough to overcome the obvious drawbacks. Monoshock systems have gone out of fashion now though and most entry level single seaters have gone back to conventional two shock systems and third springs are now common to achieve a similar, but far more complicated result of independant bump/roll adjustment on semi-independant suspension.

Overall though I am really pleased to see nK actually properly models monoshocks, even if it allows you to remove components from the car :doh:

Quote from Shotglass :

plus it can really brighten ones day... almost enough to make me buy it just to try that out

LOL.

Come on, admit it. You've tried the demo and liked it. Now your just looking for a way to buy it without looking silly about your earlier "I'll never buy it" comment


It's been great to see so many LFS drivers on the nKPro servers in the last couple of days One by one they are buying a full licence. Loads of new people are wanting to drive in the GPC league. Hopefull some new leagues will start up now due to all the activity.

Despite the silly bugs and and some issues that were missed/didnt show up in testing, it seems people are loving the feel of the sim and having fun driving it.

As long as Kunos starts taking on board the comments that are being made and acts upon them in a far more timely fashion than previously (and im convinced that is the case) then it looks like nKPro could be the sucess that i belived from day one that it should be. It needs some polish, the sound engine could do with a complete overhaul, things need to be laid out in a more logical manner in places, but none of that seems to be stopping people from enjoying it.

Quite frankly im amazed at how good the reaction to1.03 has been (not that i didnt belive it was good) especially after the (deserved) kick in it took in the first couple of years. Things are definitely looking up.

Quote from The Moose :

Come on, admit it. You've tried the demo and liked it. Now your just looking for a way to buy it without looking silly about your earlier "I'll never buy it" comment

physicswise ive always liked nkp and i dont really know what people find all that horrible and confusing about the interface now that it doesnt take 10 seconds to react anymore (apart from all the obviously misplaced things and that it isnt integrated into the game like the one in lfs which stangely enough no one seems to complain about)

however the fact of the matter is that after what has happened there is no chance in hell that kunos will ever enjoy a single euro of my money and unlike jaap ill be true to my words

I think everyone deserves a second chance.

so shotglass, are you going to go the iRacing route, stick with LFS exclusively or wait on rFactor 2?

Quote from Tezuka :

I think everyone deserves a second chance.

Absolutely. I just don't understand people that can hold a grudge over a 30 euro bit of software they bought 2.5 years ago. Even worse in Shotglass's case..he never even bought it!

I've spent far more on nights out that have promised loads and delivered nothing. rubbish meals, bad gigs, crappy films, going out drinking only to wake up £50 lighter and feeling like crap ,not even remembering what happened Did that stop me from doing those things all over again? i Think not.

People let you down, do you never speak to them again? Do you give up on them? I sure as hell dont. If people had given up on me in the past i dread to think what would have happened to my life. Forgive, move on. Life's to short for grudges. Especially over something as petty as a bit of software

Here endeth the sermon

Quote from The Moose :

I just don't understand people that can hold a grudge over a 30 euro bit of software they bought 2.5 years ago.

Not being able to use said software until a few days ago doesn't allow for a grudge?

I think when that fiat 500 coems out it wil be defenatly worth the buy for me

I will have a license on the 1st of January. I managed to poke my dad enough for him to get me a license for my birthday which is that date! Wahoo! Cannot wait.

Quote from wien :

Not being able to use said software until a few days ago doesn't allow for a grudge?

Not as far as I'm concerned, no. Where does holding a grudge get you?

But if we all thought the same way the world would be a dull place Hold your grudge if it makes you feel better


@Gills4Life. Cool ,you got your stick out then Glad to see it worked

Quote from Gills4life :

I will have a license on the 1st of January. I managed to poke my dad enough for him to get me a license for my birthday which is that date! Wahoo! Cannot wait.

I bought my license a while ago, can't say I regret it, can't say I don't either..