Nice idea, Yeager, however bad in practise. People would let their freinds (or people they like) off the hook, where as people who they don't like (or don't get on with) will face a ban for a minor offence. And then it needs to be viewed by another 2 people, which only goes to slow down the entire process.

I say appoint trusted users who are active on CTRA, that are hand-picked by the current admining teams (say 4 or 5 extra people).

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Nice idea, Yeager, however bad in practise. People would let their freinds (or people they like) off the hook, where as people who they don't like (or don't get on with) will face a ban for a minor offence. And then it needs to be viewed by another 2 people, which only goes to slow down the entire process.

I say appoint trusted users who are active on CTRA, that are hand-picked by the current admining teams (say 4 or 5 extra people).

Yeah I realised after suggesting it that it wasn't a strong idea. But something needs to change otherwise the reporting system becomes ineffective. Maybe your suggestion is the way to go, have the CTRA pick 10-15 trusted people to become "report admins". Give them guidelines and monitor the group for the first few months to see how it goes.

Hey guys..
I'd been planning to clear the backlog this week but I fell victim to a rather nasty bug and I've been laid up pretty well constantly for the last 5 days, completely wiped out.

I'm beginning to come round now and will be sorting out the outstanding reports. Approx half of the outstanding reports are either duplicates of each other (multiple reports on a single incident) or are against drivers with more than one outstanding report. These will be quick to clear. The others will take a couple of extra days.

I've had some offers from CTRA enthusiasts via PMs, to help with the reports. I appreciate the offers but it's important to understand that being a CTRA admin ruins the CTRA experience for you. All CTRA admins admit that suddenly being given admin powers has killed racing on CTRA for them. All of a sudden they have the extra burden of responsibility that comes with admining. You can't finish a race because you have to spectate to investigate the arguments and insults that constantly happen on CTRA servers. You can't process your own reports (anti-bias measures) and your overall enthusiasm for CTRA racing is killed off within hours. CTRA admining is not advised for CTRA enthusiasts, and with the position being unpaid it's not particularly appealing to non-enthusiasts either.

Thanks Sam, sorry about the bug I had the most terrible squits a few days ago and had to suffer a flight to Seattle and back in the same day... not nice

I certainly would not want to admin the CTRA and admire you guys for putting up with doing it and providing us winging lot an excellent set of servers to race on.

oh and p.s. you can ignore any reports against me, they don't need processing

Well Sam, if you needed some help, I'd be willing to assist. (Not that I'm gunna be allowed anyway). I hardly race much now, maybe doing 3 or 4 races a night at most.

Glad to hear you're feeling better now btw.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Well Sam, if you needed some help, I'd be willing to assist.

Same here. That last paragraph didn't put me off.

Quote from SamH :

I've had some offers from CTRA enthusiasts via PMs, to help with the reports. I appreciate the offers but it's important to understand that being a CTRA admin ruins the CTRA experience for you. All CTRA admins admit that suddenly being given admin powers has killed racing on CTRA for them. All of a sudden they have the extra burden of responsibility that comes with admining. You can't finish a race because you have to spectate to investigate the arguments and insults that constantly happen on CTRA servers. You can't process your own reports (anti-bias measures) and your overall enthusiasm for CTRA racing is killed off within hours. CTRA admining is not advised for CTRA enthusiasts, and with the position being unpaid it's not particularly appealing to non-enthusiasts either.

It's true, however if you go in, block messages and just race your own race, it tends to get a bit better, but the frustration is ten-fold if you get taken out.

I admined for a year on Redline and I took it seriously ,it sucked the fun out of LFS for me, nothing to do with the server or most of the drivers, count many of them as friends but having to watch replays of drivers who don't give a damn hour after hour changed my outlook of LFS.


So Think hard before you volunteer, or at least think why you want to do it.

I guess If it is this scary to be an full-on admin at ctra then why not think about some evolutional changes to the reporting-system?

My theoretical take would be kind of a "peer-review" technique in which vastly clean racers themselves get to say their verdict on cases, maybe 2-3 advanced license-holders with a reasonably clean race-license should just have their take on one and the same issue: average verdict decides whether or not somebody "bites the dust".

One could make this obligatory to all the advanced racers who still race on the servers regularly. One could provide the individual choice to skip the judging process (combined with the deduction of let's say the amount of points you get for a clean third place finish in a mid-sized car).

The model in my mind works as following:
The ctra-system already monitors all the drivers' movements on the system's servers. So why not make up a dynamic list consisting of those with the cleanest and highest (both combined!) personal files and make these take part in a multi-peered review process (as explained above). Those reports marked with ("seriously urgent") would then be sent to 3-4 ppl from that list at a time. If one or two of the selected decide not to do it(because of time-issues, personal reasons, etc.), they just get re-enrolled to the bottom(end) of the list (list-members for review are always to be taken from the top).
Thereby those who use the system more frequently will get most of the "severe cases"-workload (that a full-time admin would just be "overqualified" to judge upon), actually releaving the full admins of the less difficult-to-judge cases and getting them to do work only on the more sensitive ones (like beginners who just missinterpreted some rules, those with language-issues, etc.).

This way those receiving the most out of CTRA will get the chance to "give" something back in return without ruining the experience of all the newbies and such. One could anonymize the process by going with chiffre-numbers. Each and every "part-time-judge" would get a number 1..4 (1..n) just attached to the ID of the filed report with the option to communicate with one-another, if there ever is a need to actually discuss a specific matter of the case.

Well, how does this sound? A partly-automated facility for reviews with actual user-participation?

Oh and just for the record: I thought this up because I HATE TO HEAR ABOUT ADMINS LOSING THEIR OWN FUN IN LFS just because something good like ctra turned out to be such a huge success!

I serieously believe that large-scale operations (and ctra by now can be safely considered larger-scale) should handle matters with suitable methods, for crying out loud!

Keep up the good work guys
&
make sure your fun will come back!!!

Cheers
DrBen

I know I haven't raced in LFS for a while now. I don't think I have completed more than 10 races in the last 12 months... Nevermind the fact that I haven't been active doing reports for a while now either...

Completing reports will quickly kill your fun of LFS. I wouldn't suggest volunteering. There is already a decent group of admins, but for one reason or another we have all been burned out by the reports.

Ideally there should be an incentive to complete reports for admins. They are time consuming and tedious. But few people like the idea of being able to upload banners into LFS and have been critized IIRC, which would give the needed incentive to boost CTRA into the next stage of the project and make it a viable tool for product promotion, which virtually NEEDS to happen to bring in the needed funds to support the project fully, and professionally, unless someone in LFS has some funds stashed someplace to fund a couple people fully to operate, manage, and develop =)

Thank you Sam for keeping your head in CTRA as much as you have, especially when other admins, like myself, have moved away from CTRA a bit. I have legitimate reasons, but still, it's left you hanging with a massive project.

^ Pah, I can one-up that. I raced exactly on one day in whole 2008

There's an easy solution to CTRA's problems. First, implement a public "hall of shame" list, ridiculing everyone who got something more serious than a verbal warning. Banned users could get an "idiot of the moment" section. This should be an extra incentive for "normal" drivers to not do stupid things while at the same time the attention whores will be easier to spot.

Second, implement a point system for admins. Every report they process gives them some points, little for warnings, more for bans and the ultimate price for a permanent ban. These points can then be spent to unlock new moves (300 point deduction, 1 week ban and 3 month probation/no-join with just a single click!), level up your admin avatar, buy new avatar outfits and on top they're of course also used for a public admin ranking list (where the avatars are shown).

Now you might ask what am I thinking? Why this tomfoolery? But trust me, the principle works. Doing mindless things becomes "fun" if you're rewarded with number++. Just look at WoW.

The problem with giving admins points is it undermines the whole 'point' of collecting points in the first place (which is to provide some type of measure over experience and competence controlling a simulated vehicle). Admittidly I have already asked for this, but I agree with the reason for not allowing it. This is the same reason why there cannot be a bonus added to certian servers on certian days in attempts to increase their usage.

I could live with your idea Dustin, but I think the costs are just barely covered by the people who are currently using it and a reduction in the number of people paying in would mean others would have to pay more, and I highly doubt anyone else is willing to put more cash down than they have to, especially since some of the people paying are not admins. Which reminds me, I need to cough up some dough for the last couple months

Highlighting poor drivers is not a responsible thing to do. Some people would intenionally try to get on highlights. And besides, why should people be put on a pedistal for doing something wrong? The last thing these people need is public attention, maybe then the behaviour might change.

I can't believe anyone took that suggestion seriously...

Quote from AndroidXP :

I can't believe anyone took that suggestion seriously...

First half was kinda joking... second half I'm totally serious because there are some "goods" on the "ship" that I need to "offload" or "pillage" however "yee mateys" are being "scallywags" and not allowing me to "sail the seven seas" with them, betraying their "captain"

Yeah, I think I need to go win some lottery and give like tonnes of money to some random brit

^^^^^dustin 'jack sparrow' dawes^^^^^^^


edit: no this is not a coment relating dustin to the actor before he says anything

Hey, Just don't go find the OTHER Pirates movie.

:hide:

lol, i was gonna call you captin pugwash but you wouldnt have known who he is, i only know about him cos of my nefue(sp)

Quote from AndroidXP :

I can't believe anyone took that suggestion seriously...

Well I didn't know which way you meant I was hoping you were joking, but... Connotation isn't something that comes across well in text and you didn't use smilies or the like to show that you were making a total farce. Maybe I should take everything I read a joke unless someone puts a :sleep2: before everything they are saying that is serious.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Hey, Just don't go find the OTHER Pirates movie.

Hehe I don't wan't to know which pirate you are refering to =P Say no more Dustin, I am sure the British armada will eventually find your pirate treasure.

So we can't talk about the piracy of particular racing sims, but we can discuss UKCTs warez archive, and how you go about obtaining leech access.

Hmmm.

He's reffering to the pirated collection of movies on the UKCT server Seriously, denying knowledge of it given the open confession above is a bit daft.

Of the very few things I downloaded 2 later turned out to be virused, so i'm quite happy sticking to legit stuff even if it meens I dont have as much.

It always annoyed Sam that I only payed subs once, but my OS is at least clean of virus' because I didnt go downloading from that archive much despite having had access (although Hustle was awesome, ty). Oh yah, and of course, it was the server that was so screwed wasnt it... AVG might be an idea.

Denying knowledge narks me a bit, it's blatant as daylight. Although maybe the forum isnt quite aware just how much you guys rip off.

CTRA *is* paid for, by the contibutions made by you guys in return for which you get tonnes of illegal media.

Now I was never against using CTRA as a marketting platform, but you already have the potential to do that and never used it because nobody wants to get on the phone and sell, so I dont think moaning you cant have server side billboards yet (the least visible form of advertisement) is going to help any.

Quote :

So we can't talk about the piracy of particular racing sims, but we can discuss UKCTs warez archive, and how you go about obtaining leech access.

Hmmm.

plop

If anyone wants to spare their soul, don't go looking for that OTHER Pirates movie. In short, It's porn.

How dare you say something that Becky

Can't say I disagree about making some phonecalls, but thats Sam's ballpark to play in. I am sure there is more to it than that... Sam is worried about making too much of a commitment, if money is involved then a level of QoS has to be agreed to. But then maybe that QoS would be attainable if the incentive was there, I donno.

I do know that it's difficult for me to find the time between my little Daughter,work,and degree to support CTRA much.

Dustin your not old enough to watch anything above rated G, your incriminating yourself. =P

Seems I have totally posted in the wrong thread. I actually wasn't aware that all the discussion was centred around blue-movies and who would have the group-approved right to download them first

Do us all a favour: keep your grey-zone discussions to your private space. Oh - and just for the possibility you consider this part of the official LFS-forum your private space -
I am out of here.
Seems most of my words pretty much annoyed you guys, anyway.

I'm a little sorry for what's happening though. Never thought of the ctra-initiative to burst into flames like it appears after reading these past comments. So collecting points up to platinum - as well as striving for a reasonably clean racing-style - seemingly all of that was for plain nought. Screw myself!

Have a nice 2009!

I don't see anything that suggests that CTRA will "burst into flames".

And even IF it did: why was it for nothing? You still had lots of great races while collecting those points, didn't you?