So Gordon Brown has come up with a way of controlling the credit crunch, by making sure that when we go and see our favourite bands or even, comedy, the volume can't exceed a set barrier,

We'll be the first country to implement this law, but it means an end to loud gigs that yes may hurt your ears for two days afterwards but in a good way, and also anybody shouting down a microphone at a stand up event, will have the mic cut off as it will exceed the safe noise level,

there's a petition against this law, and I'm giving you the opportunity to sign it, I personally feel if this government has been trying to shut us up for years, and this is another way, of limiting expression! It's not North Korea, but for god's sake aren't we all sensible enough to know when something's too loud?

make you're own minds up, we do after all live in a democracy,

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/

Quote from mantis9 :

it means an end to loud gigs that yes may hurt your ears for two days afterwards but in a good way

A good way?? If your ears hurt, it means that your hearing has been damaged. Some of that damage is irreparable.

I stopped going to gigs when I noticed that my ears kept buzzing for 3 days afterwards. I'm in my 40s now, and the buzz has become permanent. Far too often I need to ask people to repeat what they're saying.

Quote :

for god's sake aren't we all sensible enough to know when something's too loud?

No. This kind of damage goes creepingly slow. You won't notice until it's too late. Would you like to be deaf for the second half of your life?

Most venues already have this because of public safety laws anyway. If a band exceeds a certain level the entire PA shuts down. I've seen it happen to a couple of bands over the years. Never mine though, because our sound doesn't need to be loud.

But I don't think loud is always better. I saw a band a few months back that played so loud that you couldn't actually make out anything they were playing - it was just noise. Thankfully I had my earplugs with me and that helped. They still sucked, mind.
Odds are if you need to be deafening, you're not worth listening to.

Venues need to understand that turning it up doesn't improve the sound. Like station PA systems, what you need is more speakers to combat any natural reverb. A single sound source is hopeless, and multiple sources means you can get full coverage without excessive volume.

Just as the smoking ban was meant to protect employees health at premises concerned, this is meant to do the same.

Why should I, the non-gig goer pay for the treatment of these stupid people who choose to damage their own health by giong to places with excessive noise levels.

"A noise annoys", ban all of it.

Quote from Bean0 :

Why should I, the non-gig goer pay for the treatment of these stupid people who choose to damage their own health by giong to places with excessive noise levels.

I haven't had kids... Don't see why I should pay for other people to infest my world with the sickly product of their desire to continue a family name. I say we should set a limit (of one child) beyond which we can exterminate the excess.

Sounds reasonable to me....

Quote from mantis9 :

make you're own minds up, we do after all live in a democracy,

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/

Firstly, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA democracy, like it

Secondly, petitions, yeah, cause we all know they work........

Quote from nihil :

I haven't had kids... Don't see why I should pay for other people to infest my world with the sickly product of their desire to continue a family name. I say we should set a limit (of one child) beyond which we can exterminate the excess.

Sounds reasonable to me....

Haven't or can't ?
One is choice, one is natural selection.

Even still, it is other peoples kids who will be supporting the economy when you reach an age where you cannot work.

I do however agree that the birth rate is too high.

Quote from Bean0 :

Haven't or can't ?

Haven't... As in do not want them. But my point really was that we do not choose what our tax money gets spent on anyway. In many ways that's a good thing, because people are so appallingly sentimental these days, we'd probably have a thousand children's hospitals and very little else.

But it is the arguement the non-smokers enjoyed using so much and seemed to have success with.

Only works against smoking it seems

Louder than ****ing hell!!!!!!!!

Manowaaaarrrr

I have a great deal of sympathy with the idea that employees should be protected against scumbag bosses who don't give a damn about people they regard as an expendable and replaceable commodity...

But at the same time I believe that the introduction of a absolute, technological response to a problem that, when it occurs, could easily be solved on a local, piecemeal basis is simply further evidence of this government's authoritarian tendencies.

Besides, I like noise. Sunno))) at the Forum was the best gig I attended last year. Sound so physical it was erotic.

Some bands simply demand that the sound is loud, and wouldn't work otherwise. I think anyone who's concerned about the health of their ears invest in earplugs- if you go to a lot of loud gigs or work in that kind of noisy environment then that's just sensible. The best way to avoid ear damage (and still have your loud concert) is to give your ears a large rest after any prolonged aural assault. The real damage is done when your ears haven't had enough time to recover. AFAIK.

In theory, your ears never properly recover from real damage. The little hairs just never stand up again and stay in the bent position that the sound left them.

As I said before, if a band demands more volume than a venue is willing to give, it's normally because they're covering up their shortcomings. On vintage equipment you do need volume to get the best sound, but not THAT much. And on modern equipment you can get the exact same saturated overdrive sounds at any volume. Even my fairly cheap Marshall amp has a button to simulate the effects of a cranked valve.

TBH I usually find it's the venue's sound man who turns everything up to "rock soup" levels, the band would much rather people could hear them play instead of putting out an awful, woofy resonant 100hz throb at 120db.

I usually turn up with a single 2x12 cab that could actually handle all the sound I need to produce, but no, it'll go through the FoH and get mixed and EQ'd (in all likelihood) by a ****ing idiot.

Nanny State

But sound so loud it becomes impossible to pick out any actual music is just as bad.

Quote from Dajmin :

As I said before, if a band demands more volume than a venue is willing to give, it's normally because they're covering up their shortcomings. On vintage equipment you do need volume to get the best sound, but not THAT much. And on modern equipment you can get the exact same saturated overdrive sounds at any volume. Even my fairly cheap Marshall amp has a button to simulate the effects of a cranked valve.

You'll never be able to simulate proper cranked up valve sound - unless you used an actual valve head.

Quote from Electric Eye :

You'll never be able to simulate proper cranked up valve sound - unless you used an actual valve head.

A good valve preamp through a tranny power stage usually leaves people none the wiser.

But anyway there are plenty of 50W all-valve heads around, you don't have to have enough power to take peoples' heads clean off to saturate a valve amp.

Quote from mantis9 :

So Gordon Brown has come up with a way of controlling the credit crunch, by making sure that when we go and see our favourite bands or even, comedy, the volume can't exceed a set barrier,

We'll be the first country to implement this law, but it means an end to loud gigs that yes may hurt your ears for two days afterwards but in a good way, and also anybody shouting down a microphone at a stand up event, will have the mic cut off as it will exceed the safe noise level,

there's a petition against this law, and I'm giving you the opportunity to sign it, I personally feel if this government has been trying to shut us up for years, and this is another way, of limiting expression! It's not North Korea, but for god's sake aren't we all sensible enough to know when something's too loud?

make you're own minds up, we do after all live in a democracy,

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/

I don't see the correlation between keeping the noise from a live gig to a level where it doesn't unduely annoy surrounding homes with North Korea and lack of Democracy in any way what so ever.

Imagine how you'd feel if you bought a home relatively close to a pub, (say couple of hundred metres), and 6 months down the line they got a live music license and you were unable to watch TV or get to sleep every weekend because you had to listen to what would almost certainly be music you didn't like at a volume you can't shut out.

Quote from gezmoor :

Imagine how you'd feel if you bought a home relatively close to a pub, (say couple of hundred metres), and 6 months down the line they got a live music license and you were unable to watch TV or get to sleep every weekend because you had to listen to what would almost certainly be music you didn't like at a volume you can't shut out.

A couple of years ago I lived across the road from a live music venue that had bands on at least 3 nights a week. When they closed their windows and doors it wasn't an issue at all (but did they close them? Well, after we sent the council attack dogs round a few times they did).

The biggest problem was the pissed-up children hanging around outside the place after they closed while they waited for their parents to pick them up. They were very, very noisy, and if there was new legislation in the pipeline to have them all executed I would support it.

Im 32, I wear ear plugs at very loud gigs as well, as I do at very loud motor sport events. I dont want to damage my ears either, Im well aware of the dangers. I will however, defend our right to play loud music where undue stress is not placed on the residents of the surrounding area.

This is not about how loud is too loud, this is about our civil liberties being taken away.

I am aware that many places already have these systems in place, I used to work at one. This law will mandate these systems at *all* entertainment venues. What about the NEC? No one lives with a mile of it.

Quote from mantis9 :

This is not about how loud is too loud, this is about our civil liberties being taken away.

I am aware that many places already have these systems in place, I used to work at one. This law will mandate these systems at *all* entertainment venues. What about the NEC? No one lives with a mile of it.

Fair point. Out of curiosity what is the limit they want to impose?

Quote from gezmoor :

Fair point. Out of curiosity what is the limit they want to impose?

I can't remember but it's something fecking stupidly low like 80db.

I personally feel that almost all music whether played in pubs, clubs or concerts is unnecessarily loud, and can't see any harm in it being reduced to safer levels with no real noticeable difference. I don't like the notion that the government has to take the duty to enforce this though. I don't think the same can be applied to other forms of entertainment such as motorsport or non-electronic music though, they don't have a simple volume control after all.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I can't remember but it's something fecking stupidly low like 80db.

At what distance? 80db at 100m from the outside of the venue is pretty damn loud. 80db 1m from the PA isn't that loud. 80db as an average listening level in the auditorium is actually pretty loud and more than loud enough to enjoy even rock music in all it's genres. I get the sense that people don't actually know how loud certain db levels are in reality.

Check the table below:

190 dBA Heavy weapons, 10 m behind the weapon (maximum level)
180 dBA Toy pistol fired close to ear (maximum level)
170 dBA Fire cracker explodes on shoulder, small arms at a distance of 50 cm (maximum level)
160 dBA Hammer stroke on brass tubing or steel plate at 1 m distance (maximum level)
150 dBA Hammer stroke in a smithy at 5 m distance (maximum level)
130 dBA Loud hand clapping at 1 m distance (maximum level)
120 dBA Test run of a jet at 15 m distance
Threshold of pain, above this fast-acting hearing damage in short action is possible
115 dBA Take-off sound of planes at 10 m distance
110 dBA Siren at 10 m distance, frequent sound level in discotheques and close to loudspeakers at rock concerts, violin close to the ear of an orchestra musicians (maximum level)
105 dBA Chain saw at 1 m distance (maximum level), racing car at 40 m distance, possible level with music head phones
100 dBA Jack hammer at 10 m distance
95 dBA Hand circular saw at 1 m distance
90 dBA Angle grinder outside at 1 m distance
Over a duration of 40 hours a week hearing damage is possible
85 dBA 2-stroke chain-saw at 10 m distance
80 dBA Very loud traffic noise of passing lorries at 7.5 m distance
75 dBA Passing car at 7.5 m distance, un-silenced wood shredder at 10 m distance
70 dBA Level close to a main road by day, quiet hair dryer at 1 m distance to ear
65 dBA Bad risk of heart circulation disease at constant impact
60 dBA Noisy lawn mower at 10 m distance
55 dBA Low volume of radio or TV at 1 m distance, noisy vacuum cleaner at 10 m distance
50 dBA Refrigerator at 1 m distance, bird twitter outside at 15 m distance
45 dBA Noise of normal living; talking, or radio in the background
40 dBA Distraction when learning or concentration possible
35 dBA Very quiet room, fan at low speed at 1 m distance
25 dBA Sound of breathingat 1 m distance
0 dBA Auditory threshold

Quote from wsinda :

A good way?? If your ears hurt, it means that your hearing has been damaged. Some of that damage is irreparable.

I stopped going to gigs when I noticed that my ears kept buzzing for 3 days afterwards. I'm in my 40s now, and the buzz has become permanent. Far too often I need to ask people to repeat what they're saying.
No. This kind of damage goes creepingly slow. You won't notice until it's too late. Would you like to be deaf for the second half of your life?

Oh diddums.

Learn to enjoy your life ffs