What are you talking about?!?!?! A F1 wheel is playstaion controller. Only with more buttons....
j/k
Jay
What are you talking about?!?!?! A F1 wheel is playstaion controller. Only with more buttons....
j/k
Jay
Terribly sorry about the OT, but...
Do you have to ****ing state this once a week, IN ADDITION to this other spam you flood?
Doesn't help much to have you ignored since you still manage to fill half of my screen :/
Do you have to ****ing state this once a week, IN ADDITION to this other spam you flood?
Doesn't help much to have you ignored since you still manage to fill half of my screen :/
@jbirdaspec, about RL tracks, I've been wondering if they don't want to add them yet because the current map system isn't accurate enough to come close to the realism level they would be satisfied with.
You may have a point but to me the cars in LFS are very well thought out. They resemble a number RL cars that many people can relate to their RL experience: the XF, XR or FXO may turn into that one car you like, that you have owned or driven, or maybe only dreamt about (FZ5 or LX)
That way with one car they cater to fans of different models, without having to worry too much about balancing. Just think of all the skins that try to turn the XR or XF into some RL car. Honda, Nissan, Peugeot, Toyota, Mazda... you name it
Of course for those who have to drive the Pontiac Solstice they've dreamed about for so long, and can't settle for anything less, LFS is certainly not a viable choice
You may have a point but to me the cars in LFS are very well thought out. They resemble a number RL cars that many people can relate to their RL experience: the XF, XR or FXO may turn into that one car you like, that you have owned or driven, or maybe only dreamt about (FZ5 or LX)
That way with one car they cater to fans of different models, without having to worry too much about balancing. Just think of all the skins that try to turn the XR or XF into some RL car. Honda, Nissan, Peugeot, Toyota, Mazda... you name it
Of course for those who have to drive the Pontiac Solstice they've dreamed about for so long, and can't settle for anything less, LFS is certainly not a viable choice
Actually this video show nothing that confirm your point, because he isn't driving from the inside of the car (try with a wheel to drive the uf1 in spectator view, I guess it won't be much better).
Otherwise I agree that those racing game, such as gt5p and forza, are not simulations, and I don't thing they are currently trying to be one.
Since this is not the gamepad that forbid a racing game to be a simulation ( you can perfectly drive on lfs or rfactor with it) , i think the reason that those games are so far from pc simulations is that devellopers want to hit a particular public. The public who wants to play a "simulation" without practising 3 hours before being able to make a good lap, those who want to play fast and enjoy it the way it is (and they are a lot more than us). Look Forza 2: most of the races are 6-7 laps long. The endurance races are 50 minutes long, it's ridiculous
.See, exactly those comments are the reason I just can't take you serious anymore... Could you point out where I said everything is better than a wheel to control a car? No? Thought so...
And I thought we're discussing sims, there is quite some difference once you throw mechanical linkages into the equation - which neither sims nor racing games feature...
Thought I will say sth. There were concept cars using joystics! 
(some of them were able to drive!) You can drive with anything You want... the only problem is the practicality of certain mechanisms. Wheen is the most comfortable and offers the best feedback, mouse is the quickiest, keyboard... well... You know ^^. I bet You could drive real car with a keyboard... for me it would be really difficult in high speeds but on low it would be rather... umm... safe...
(some of them were able to drive!) You can drive with anything You want... the only problem is the practicality of certain mechanisms. Wheen is the most comfortable and offers the best feedback, mouse is the quickiest, keyboard... well... You know ^^. I bet You could drive real car with a keyboard... for me it would be really difficult in high speeds but on low it would be rather... umm... safe...You're grasping at straws.
What you said was that, "the interface doesn't matter one bit".
I simply pointed out that comment is completely untrue. If it was true, then in real life they wouldn't spend so much money on "the interface".
Fair point.
I'm not saying the option to use a gamepad is what makes a game unrealistic. I am saying that if the game works in such a way that you can successfully race a high-powered racing-car with a gamepad, then it's a safe bet that the game in question is probably not a "high fidelity simulation".
I'm not stating that as a fact, I might be wrong. I asked the genuine question to board members, who can drive well in LFS with a gamepad? If it is you, what are your best lap times? So far nobody has offered up anything.
This may be partially due to the fact that all the "best" racers use expensive steering wheel setups. Many of them complete with clutch and gear-shifter. If "interface doesn't matter", I wonder why they bother?
In fact, I maybe wrong, but isn't a steering wheel and pedal setup a minimum requirement for the new racing sim, iRacing? Like you said (below), thats because the games are marketed to different audiences.
Exactamundo.
They're simply not making high-fidelity racing simulations for consoles. Why? Because they wouldn't sell. Period. But all you really need to do is watch that video in my post on the previous page. It's laughable.
gt5 could go very very hardcore knowing kaz, but he aimed it at everyone, not just us.
Not at all, and if you'd only half understand how a PC wheel works you'd be agreeing with me - god knows I've tried to explain in simple terms in my last posts... And again, mechanical linkages are a whole other matter, another point you don't seem capable of grasping...
Anyway, when you finally decide to actually inform yourself, we can continue this discussion... At the time being, your negative stance on everything but your own opinion tires me...
Mmm, I read about the (unfair) mention that Forza 2 has recieved. This game is a good simulator. You can feel the weight of the car moving around and it behaves in a very true to life way. Different cars have definate pluses and minuses, and each modification you make adjusts the handling in some way, like as I said earlier, getting bigger wheels increases weight! Find another game that does that.
Why is it "engineered" to play with a gamepad (or console games in general)? Because not everyone wants to buy a wheel for their console, (it's not as practical as a PC because generally you don't have a desk!) plus with the already high price for a "gaming only" machine, many people don't want to spend extra on periphipals that they won't "always" be using.
(For the record, most of the WRs are set using a Momo or something, last time I checked they all used auto clutch and most likely drove with sequential gearbox and 240/270 degrees of rotation on their wheel.)
And let's be frank. If a game such as GT5 or GTR only had 50,000 or so people buy it, the development team would go out of buisness very quickly.
BBman is correct, however. A simulator is still a sim regardless of how it's controlled, and on that basis you cannot assume another game is not a simulator because it's controlled by a gamepad. It's the output that matters (feel, features), rather than the input (wheel, keyboard, whatever).
Ika, you refer to these very expensive wheels in F1 and the like - Do you even know why they're so expensive? Because they have all sorts of knobs and switches that allow the driver to adjust his car as he's driving. Diff, traction control, brake bias, the lot. Not to mention they probably have all sorts of LED speed, revs, (split times?) lap #, etc. It's more than just "a wheel". I'm sure if you have a computer set up the car exactly the same as a driver would whilst going round, then bolted a wheel from an early 90's car on, I'm sure he'd drive pretty much exactly the same laptime.
Sure, some games are directed as "arcade" racers, and others more serious sims, but at the end of the day, the people who play these games enjoy them, and isn't that what gaming is about? Enjoying yourself. I'm sure they don't care if you think that their copy of NFS isn't automatically good because it doesn't support a wheel or whatever bullshit you'll say, I'm sure they'll just enjoy the game regardless.
Is it me or are alot of people incredibly serious about racing sims, to the point of annoying "lesser games"?
To quote Clarkson, regarding the Ferrari Owners Club "Most of them angry because they don't actually have Ferraris", as in they can't actually race in RL for whatever reason?
Why is it "engineered" to play with a gamepad (or console games in general)? Because not everyone wants to buy a wheel for their console, (it's not as practical as a PC because generally you don't have a desk!) plus with the already high price for a "gaming only" machine, many people don't want to spend extra on periphipals that they won't "always" be using.
(For the record, most of the WRs are set using a Momo or something, last time I checked they all used auto clutch and most likely drove with sequential gearbox and 240/270 degrees of rotation on their wheel.)
And let's be frank. If a game such as GT5 or GTR only had 50,000 or so people buy it, the development team would go out of buisness very quickly.
BBman is correct, however. A simulator is still a sim regardless of how it's controlled, and on that basis you cannot assume another game is not a simulator because it's controlled by a gamepad. It's the output that matters (feel, features), rather than the input (wheel, keyboard, whatever).
Ika, you refer to these very expensive wheels in F1 and the like - Do you even know why they're so expensive? Because they have all sorts of knobs and switches that allow the driver to adjust his car as he's driving. Diff, traction control, brake bias, the lot. Not to mention they probably have all sorts of LED speed, revs, (split times?) lap #, etc. It's more than just "a wheel". I'm sure if you have a computer set up the car exactly the same as a driver would whilst going round, then bolted a wheel from an early 90's car on, I'm sure he'd drive pretty much exactly the same laptime.
Sure, some games are directed as "arcade" racers, and others more serious sims, but at the end of the day, the people who play these games enjoy them, and isn't that what gaming is about? Enjoying yourself. I'm sure they don't care if you think that their copy of NFS isn't automatically good because it doesn't support a wheel or whatever bullshit you'll say, I'm sure they'll just enjoy the game regardless.
Is it me or are alot of people incredibly serious about racing sims, to the point of annoying "lesser games"?
To quote Clarkson, regarding the Ferrari Owners Club "Most of them angry because they don't actually have Ferraris", as in they can't actually race in RL for whatever reason?
^yes! i use a pad and get the full feeling of the car
Look, I was simply saying that racing a Formula One car using your thumbs on a playstation gamepad would not be an effective way to control a car in real life, and thus it shouldn't be in a real simulation either. The fact that it is in GT5P suggests it's not a "real simulation". If you disagree, then fine. Apparently you believe that a playstation gamepad could, in theory, be an effective tool to drive a real racing car. I don't. Never mind the fact that racing in a real car requires the drivers to sometimes use the brake, accelerator and clutch at the same time. But I'm obviously not getting through to you, so leave it at that, we agree to disagree, so no more talk about the gamepad because I think you're intentionally missing the point and confusing the subject.
The crux of what I am saying is basically: GT5P is not a high-fidelity racing simulation. If you don't get, or if you disagree with the point I was making about driving a racing car with a toy gamepad, then fine. Let's drop it and we'll move on to something that might offer more constructive debate: take a look at that video I posted on the last page and compare it to Hammond driving the F1 car.
Still think it's a highly realistic simulation? If so, discuss.
Excellent points. Especially the point about car balancing. They pick the specs of cars in a class and don't have to worry about pissing off a car company because they needed to slow it down for competition. I also agree the cars are well thought out.
I know the cars are loosely based on their RL counter parts. They shouldn't be reinventing the wheel, so they don't. It makes sense. For people that love the drive it doesn't matter.
Jay Odom
But you said you've never played GT5P!! someone is talking out of their botty.
FTR a game, regardless of genre is classed as a "toy", just as my G25 is a "toy", so please drop the whole control thing. cmon, you can pla lfs with a keyborad, thats worse than gt5p
so.. NFS<LFS<GT5P
so.. NFS<LFS<GT5P
I agree with every single word in this post.. except for the Clarkson bit, because I didn't get it
+1
I completely agree with you..
Why not?
I don't have to play GT5.
Seriously, I wonder if anyone bothered reading my previous posts or watching the videos. The guy launches as Ferrari F1, which is stupid enough to begin with. But the suspension acts like a matchbox car that a five year old is making "jump" with his hands.
Just watch the bloody video. If you still think it's realistic, then fair enough, good for you, I hope you have fun etc. etc. blah blah blah
I never said it wasn't a good game or fun or anything else. Just it's not a realistic simulation, and I stand by that.
Well, how would we know, as noone ever drove a real F1 car with a gamepad, so it might be possible. And I actually do think it would be possible to drive competitively if the driver had the same experience with it as the others have with wheels and pedals.
Just for the record, IIRC we still cling to the old and actually quite dated method of steering a car because laws require a mechanical means of steering and braking, so drive by wire systems which would allow different methods like joysticks or gamepads are just not possible.
So I have to agree with BBman here that the realism of a sim has nothing to do with the chosen way of generating input, but with what the sim does with it.
IMHO you mix up two different things: realism and immersion. Is LfS less realistc when driven with a mouse? no, but definately less immersive.
You DO know that GT5P works perfectly with the g25 racing wheel, right? So that pretty much invalidates your point. As you can just as easily plug in that same ps3 controller into your pc, install the appropriate drivers and play lfs with it.
Also, the F1 car in gt5p is HORRIBLE. It drives like a god damn hover craft. By far the worst modeled car in the game. So don't base your opinion of that game solely on that one car. They can't seem to do open wheelers properly, but all their other cars are modeled quite well. Play the game and see for yourself.
My applauds sir. A true mastermind at work here people. This has to be the best troll attempt on this forum I have ever witnessed. Even had me fooled for a while. Watch and learn kids, watch and learn.
You cannot judge something you haven't had first hand experience of. That is what defines "talking out of your botty"
Here's Live For Speed. According to your theory, because it JUMPS it's not a simulator. So please either withdraw your obviously unjustified comments or please share your now negative comments towards LFS because it jumped!
If you have read, I haven't said GT5p is "realistic". But it's sure as hell not the arcade racer you make it out to be. You have to modulate braking and throttle, be smooth with steering. It's a good all round sim - Not bad physics, very good graphics, very good sound, very nice "pick up and playability".
Until you can have a first hand experience of something, and stop talking poopy, I have nothing more to say.
stop talking about something you havn't tried
videos arnt as fun as playing...That's one of the worst examples of taking quotations completely out of context I've ever seen.
You should work for FOX "news".
Rfactor vs LFS ... pretty impressive
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