Quote from Warper :

Why do you always blame Need for Speed? Why do you always use Need for Speed as the worst example for something what LFS not is?

I don't really blame it (as it's not a racing simlator, so not comparable) but others do it
maybe because like someone else wrote here "NFS is the complete opposite of LFS and that makes it easier to show off the differences"

Or maybe because the more NFS games come out the more it is developed into a completly different direction then LFS.

While a lot of the older LFS fans want more restrictions for realistic setups, tire choices etc.,
the "usual NFS guy" that comes to this forum asks "why is there no NOS, neon, why can't I tweak the engine and race online etc..

They usually show not the real understanding of what LFS is for many of us or what a racing simulator is in general,
mainly because they are to used to the newer flashing unrealistic NFS games stuff.

Or maybe because the name NFS usually embodies today
most of the things a hardcore sim racer doesn't want or like



Side note:
I started my online racing career in 1998 or 99 when EA developed the beta online gameserver for Need for Speed High Stakes
I liked it when the World Rankings (early LFSW) were introduced and I spend so many sleepless nights to get into the top5 there.
I also bought my first wheel because of the first NFS games and got DSL in 1999 because of it etc.
So it also brought me into online racing and I had a great time with it and lots of others.

But like you said the newer titels are games for the masses developed to feed the crowd

Oh and last but not least I do remember your websites and liked them.
Funny just noticed you live in the same city as me

I have a similar racing history Wraper (getting a T2 for The Need For Speed [the first one really had the "The" there]).

But you miss the whole point of hating NfS in here. It's not that they are bad games (well, Carbon and Underground are, with Pro Street being a glimpse of light which was funnily shot down by both critics and fans), but stupid people wanting features of the series (especially after it went "underground"...) in LfS.
Which most people in here don't like. If anybody wants to play a game LIKE NfS, they should go play the original instead of trying to make something else to be the same as the game they like.

On a sidenote, its very sad that nowadays, those games sell best that offer basically the same shit in a different packaging...

The only one I had fun with was NFS:5 (Porsche unleashed) I still play it.


All of the others I didn't find that fun. It was like going to pizza hut and driving that stupid arcade game they had there. I have most wanted, and I think personally... it sucks.

Come on cars taking turns at 150mph? Cars stopping from 200mph-0mph in 2-3 seconds. Arcade?

Hehe, some fair points. Makes me want people to post their racing game history to see how we all got into sim racing.

Here's mine...see if you can guess how old I am!

Stunt Car Racer (zx spectrum) -> vroom (amiga) -> f1 Grand Prix (amiga) -> GP2 (pc-486) -> Colin Mcrae Rally -> Toca2 -> Grand Prix 3 -> CMR3 -> GP4 (it crashed, I took it back) -> Project Gotham (xbox) ahem.. -> PGR2 -> LFS!!

I agree, it's the (much) later NFS releases that gave it a bad rep. I loved the improvements to the vehicle 'simulation' aspect that Porsche Unleashed brought, as it no longer seemed like the blatant arcade that 2, 3 and 4 were.

The original was really good fun, and I only had the demo until a few years ago (not much money for games when you're only 10/11) when a friend of mine found it in a second hand computer shop. Although never intend as a sim, even back in its day, NFS did bring many realism aspects with it that most driving games of the time left out. Seeing the gearstick move, actually having a loss in acceleration during shifts, working torque curves, accurately modelled cars (both visually and, to a reasonable extent, numerically), an arcade yet visually correct looking tyre model (as in, you could perform reasonable donuts, had to brake for corners, and the tyres felt like they had some squidge to them, which couldn't be said for the sequel), hell just having the camera behind the dashboard - these were all new things to most racing gamers. It was the racing game I did judge others against for a long time.

When it comes to suggesting an alternative, I can still think of two reasons why NFS is the example that will always come up:
1. The name is so similar (to LFS)
2. It's possibly the best well known racing series, that doesn't try to be realistic (ok some would argue that Gran Turismo doesn't either, but the NFS series is certainly the larger of the two)

Edit: Jeez Colin, dusting off your account are you? Can't remember you posting here for years. WB

i remember when i was younger (not too long ago... im only 16) i would always throw on my microsoft sidewider wheel and play NFS:SE. it was a complete blast. and it was actually nfs carbon that got me into lfs and ultimately sims. i remember trying to drift on there thinking how shitty and unrealistic it was. so for me, if it was not for the nfs series. then i would never be where i am now as far as racing simulations. and i have nothing against the nfs games. they are not directed at the racing simulation enthusiast (pardon the spelling), they are directed at people that like to play a game in there spare time.

ps. actually i just got done playing nfs:u2, because im sixteen and im too ****ing broke to be able to go out and trick out any car of my liking.
so everyone that wants to descriminate against another person because they would like the best of both worlds (tricking out cars- realism and physics accuracy). you can pull your heads out of your asses and realise that everybody has a right to their own opinion.

Porsche 2000 was probably the first (proper) racing game I ever played...

Same here JakG.
Ive been playing NFS Undercover today and I must say that they have spiced up the steering a little bit. Alot more oversteer now.

I never understood some people's need to consistently speak badly of racing games, whether on PC or consoles. In fact we should be grateful to these games, because they expose huge numbers of casual gamers to racing. And surely among some of them it sparks an interest for getting into more serious simming. I believe the main gateway to sims is through games -- very few people go directly to the sim world.

Quote from Gnomie :

I never understood some people's need to consistently speak badly of racing games, whether on PC or consoles. In fact we should be grateful to these games, because they expose huge numbers of casual gamers to racing. And surely among some of them it sparks an interest for getting into more serious simming. I believe the main gateway to sims is through games -- very few people go directly to the sim world.

exactly my point

i enjoy burnout, nfs, lfs, and rfactor, they all have their upsides and thats why i use them to satisfy my needs. so i like nfs, before prostreet though...

Quote from Warper :

Hi folks,

just something came to my mind again. Something what i thought about already dozen of times while reading this Forum.

Why do you always blame Need for Speed? Why do you always use Need for Speed as the worst example for something what LFS not is?

I just want you to consider that many of the "older" people here (24 and upwards) were maybe introduced to Racing Games with something like The Need for Speed, or Need for Speed II. Maybe even Need for Speed Hot Pursuit, or Need for Speed High Stakes. Some of the even younger people definitely thanks to Need for Speed Porsche.

Nevertheless NFS is always used in a very bad manner in this Forum. Of course its not a competitor, of course its not a simulation. But it surely is a game about cars and about the fascination of driving a car fast. There was a time where they haven't been any simulations like NetKar Pro, LFS, GTR and Co (I don't want to start a discussion about the "simulation" term, please resist). This was a time where something like Need for Speed really catched many car enthusiasts interest. Actually it was for me the reason to buy my first steering wheel - a Thrustmaster T2. Later I of course realized what bothers me about the NFS series and I searched for replacements. I went trough the EA F1 Games, Codemasters TOCA, GTR Racing 2002 for the F1 2005 (if i remember correctly), GTR (more or less only the Demo) and finally LFS. I definitely forgot some, but these are the main steps, even the sequence I am not sure about.

Of course some of you started directly with something like Nascar 2003 or maybe even Grand Prix Legends but not everyone.

I just want to remind some people that maybe NFS did the job for some of us to get us addicted to racing games in the first step.

Of course NFS developed in a specific direction, into a mass game and feeding the crowd, but its still the NFS Series and not just the games since Underground.

Don't blame a whole country for some silly citizens...

Yep, you are right, I don't have a complete free mind regarding NFS. If I am honest I have some kind of big past with it. Used to have very well known german NFS websites (The Racing Zone and later nd4spd.de/n4s.de) and worked for EA as the NFS Community guy in Germany. But this was in the time of NFS II to NFS Underground... it all went down with not beeing able to edit cars anymore and the Series to be adressed to a very young mass market crowd. Just to explain myself and the reason why I still catch myself fighting for the Series...

I hope some of you will think about what NFS was for one or the other some years ago...

my 2 cents,
Steffen

PS: This Thread just brought up this mind again... thats why I posted it now.

NFS is a GAME !
Lfs is a simulator. You can`t compare those two things in my opinnion.

Things go well as long as you treat the two things like that. If one states that NFS is the "mother of all racing" in the Lfs forum - Things are going to get wild.

I have tried some NFS demo`s but never bought that game. I like simulators - HARD simulators and therefore I now drive iRacing.

But you never forget an old "girlfriend" and I still hope to get involved with Lfs again

Just spent an enjoyable hour on NFS:MW.

Was FUN, so what I can take a 90 degree corner at 125mph, it's fun and is an enjoyable way to waste time.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Just spent an enjoyable hour on NFS:MW.

Was FUN, so what I can take a 90 degree corner at 125mph, it's fun and is an enjoyable way to waste time.

i found the clio to be quite fun...

I'm still stuck with my IS300, although it's coming along nicely.

Trying to save up as much money as I can, although I've won the #14 dudes IS300 and the #13 guys Supra, both are ugly and I prefer to make stuff myself, just saving them to be sold on a rainy day.

Saving up for a mid-range car such as the Cayman or something, when I finally unlock them.

Talking of which, had a 25 minute chase as well, got about 125,000 bounty. Got from Condition 1 to Condition 3, but I don't think there are those helicopters or spike-strips till Condition 4 or something., and I haven't 'unlocked' it yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zqMEPCYmn4

first race game i ever played
was 8 or 9 at the time

and yea i used to love nfs hot pursuit
thinking of downloading again

Quote from BBO@BSR :

Oh and last but not least I do remember your websites and liked them.
Funny just noticed you live in the same city as me

Haha... really? Very cool! Actually I don't live in Braunschweig currently, because I am doing an Internship in Panama for 6 months. But in BS we always organise nice LFS races with my roommates and some other friends on our own host. You should join once...

Two all the others: Yeah... nice ideas and nice posts... I like to read all of that.

Regards,
Steffen

Quote from Fastwalker :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zqMEPCYmn4

theres the old lfs for u guys!

I started out with "Chequered Flag" on the ZX Spectrum. The hours of enjoyment i got from that was incredible. Cutting edge stuff in its day.

See it in its full awesomeness http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v= ... t05-g&feature=related

The next really good racer for me was Indy 500 on the Amiga. mouse control and awesome crashes were the order of the day
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYGvoftBDM

Then i discovered Crammonds "Grand Prix" and the sim racing addiction was something i would never escape from. Pure class
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v= ... p;playnext=1&index=22


Ohh ,yeah, the topic. The original Need For Speed was brilliant for its time,
I played it on the 3DO ( did anybody else in Britain own a 3DO? It wasnt popular and didnt last long.. something called a Playstation was released and the 3DO died before it got going)
Loved Hot Pursuit and the sequel and the Porsche version was top stuff as well.
Unfortunately it all went 'rice' and became a hidious pile of crap of a series. And thats why its universally hated by simmers and is thrown around as the insult to people who want crappy tuning options in LFS.

Quote from The Moose :

I started out with "Chequered Flag" on the ZX Spectrum. The hours of enjoyment i got from that was incredible. Cutting edge stuff in its day.

See it in its full awesomeness http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v= ... t05-g&feature=related

Me too Stu, still can't understand why you'd have glass on a racing track though LOL.

The racing games that stand out in my history are NFS, the original, Test drive 6, Gran Turismo, which TBH, blew me away, it was well worth the £70 I paid for it on import.

I think GT was my final racing game before moving to PC's, and then it was GP Legends, NFS Porsche, LFS, and then hundreds of different ones betwixt LFS and now.

Quote from The Moose :

I started out with "Chequered Flag" on the ZX Spectrum. The hours of enjoyment i got from that was incredible. Cutting edge stuff in its day.

See it in its full awesomeness http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v= ... t05-g&feature=related

The next really good racer for me was Indy 500 on the Amiga. mouse control and awesome crashes were the order of the day
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYGvoftBDM

Then i discovered Crammonds "Grand Prix" and the sim racing addiction was something i would never escape from. Pure class
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v= ... p;playnext=1&index=22


Ohh ,yeah, the topic. The original Need For Speed was brilliant for its time,
I played it on the 3DO ( did anybody else in Britain own a 3DO? It wasnt popular and didnt last long.. something called a Playstation was released and the 3DO died before it got going)
Loved Hot Pursuit and the sequel and the Porsche version was top stuff as well.
Unfortunately it all went 'rice' and became a hidious pile of crap of a series. And thats why its universally hated by simmers and is thrown around as the insult to people who want crappy tuning options in LFS.

Ah memories!! Played and loved all three of those games and likewise it was Microprose's Grand prix game that got me hooked :-)

Quote from Fastwalker :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zqMEPCYmn4

first race game i ever played
was 8 or 9 at the time

and yea i used to love nfs hot pursuit
thinking of downloading again

for a game that predates topgear for the snes, that looks and sounds great...

one thing i've always liked about those older systems, they have great bass lines. you just don't get that anymore...

Quote from GabbO :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... mezxk&feature=related

hahhaa i rember playing that track with the dirt cheat on it was quite fun but only if it was on the dirt drifting,

alot of games IE granturismo comes in mind were alot more realistic in the first few virson's and after that they became more of a empty shell to sell their design's to people rather then they physic's
i loved GT1 you couldnt drive the the 800 HP supra without going sideways through a corner :P and the turbo lag OMG

I think racing games/simulations can be compared to girls/women you sleep with:

Where the modern NFS-style arcade racer is like a one-night-stand with a willing bit.. uhm ... kinky girl that does everything for you in terms of sexual satisfaction - and that's all -, the LFS-style simulation is like the more mature girl you (have to, somebody) sleep with, but you are together with and deeply (<-- not to be misunderstood, that "deeply"! ) love in every other aspect, also if there are some things lacking in bed.

Now it's up to you what to choose!

(Did anybody understand me? I guess no. :tilt

Quote from smove :

I think racing games/simulations can be compared to girls/women you sleep with:

Where the modern NFS-style arcade racer is like a one-night-stand with a willing bit.. uhm ... kinky girl that does everything for you in terms of sexual satisfaction - and that's all -, the LFS-style simulation is like the more mature girl you (have to, somebody) sleep with, but you are together with and deeply (<-- not to be misunderstood, that "deeply"! ) love in every other aspect, also if there are some things lacking in bed.

Now it's up to you what to choose!

(Did anybody understand me? I guess no. :tilt

Haha... love your comparison!

Quote from smove :

... also if there are some things lacking in bed.

Even so, thats not the case with me. You just need to know how to tweak your "game" to really satisfy you! Okok... maybe its the other way around :P