Becky.
Its Wurz not Wurtz
And it is De la Rosa. Not De la Rossa
Becky.
Its Wurz not Wurtz
And it is De la Rosa. Not De la Rossa
And that should be 1 paragraph not 3 and sentences do not start with "And".
And the situation of Wurz and de la Rosa was nothing like what we were talking about.
They where not bad mouthed, they where kept hanging on and lost their drives and returned, which is what I was talking about with whoever it was. The issue of being bad mouthed is unique to drivers who dont deserve to return (arguably Wurz may have deserved to have been in this category too).
Pizzonia knew what he was going to do in 2003 already in the summer of 2002 but did not talk about that (join Mclaren) because of "contractual agreements". Wurz had in his last year at Benetton already made clear he wanted to leave the Team and didnt felt beeing treated equal from Briatore. I have personally talked with Alex Wurz several times. His situation was also completely different from Bourdais now.
"The issue of beeing bad mouthed is unique to drivers who dont deserve to have a return"?? According to you? Who has the insight into whats going on in the inner workings of an F1 Team from the comfortable view of your couch?? If you really believe beeing bad mouthed is unique to situations where it is deserved - sorry but thats a pretty naive way of thinking.
No you are taking me way out of context and focusing on the details of debate rather than on the details of Scott Speed's case. The problem was he was frigging useless, and Torro Rosso publicly said he was not.
I guess to save face they admitted to having made a mistake in giving him so many chances to prove he was capable.
Regarding bad mouthing him publicly so that he couldnt get a drive in F1 again, you do realise, that F1 teams are quite capable of talking to each other directly too. What is said publicly is marketting, and Torro Rosso had to admit they messed up and would be giving a better driver a chance because everybody thought they where idiots for sticking by Scott Speed for so long.
Face it, the guy was useless.
As for the current situation Sato is a hanger on already so if he does get a drive great for him, for Bordais - is he really hanging on. I meen, you could say the same about whatever team is last to confirm it's drivers for next year even if the last contract is signed in round 15.
Deals are made in motorsport all year long, Bourdais will get a drive somewhere, perhaps even in the car he's holding out for.
From the beginning of this thread every single point you made was refuted as it was based on ignorance coupled with lack of knowledge. And now you say the problem was that Scott Speed was useless, and now it was Toro Rosso who publicly said he was not useless? LOL. I'm out of this ridiculous discussion.
No I think i'm not explaining myself. They stood by Scott Speed a lot longer than they should have.
I've been watching F1 since 1984 and i've seen only a handful of drivers as bad as Scott was, I think my problem in grasping what is being said to me is that I just don't care what was said about him.
Yes...somewhere...lol. Bourdais isn't exactly some disposable test driver that can be thrown around from series to series. Bourdais options were simple and he knew it well.
Be retained by STR to see if he can break deeper into F1, or go back to the states and participate in the new IndyCar series with top teams such as Penski or Newman Haas. There was even a rumor that he was also looking into NASCAR.
Bourdais already asked STR to be reasonable and give the frenchman a response within a reasonable time as IndyCar teams were willing to wait for him. However, this has dragged on well within the new year and there's still no response.
Now look what's happened:
Penske couldn't wait anymore and signed Will Power
Newman Hass signed on Robert Doornbos
There's no other seat left in IndyCar that's really worth pursing. Everything's basically filled up except for a handful of lower mid fielder teams and NASCAR's already almost full (and seeing as how Smith, NASCAR's rookie of the year with no DNFs throughout his rookie season can't get a full time ride I doubt NASCAR is an option for anyone outside of the stock car/sports car discipline now)
Now he's basically stuck with second/third rate teams no matter what top tier series he tries to get into
While I doubt Bourdais' career will be finished by this lack of courtesy. He definitely was forced into this situation by STR. IMO this is highly unprofessional
He also has Team Peugeot Total to fall back on & thats far from second rate
I agree, Toro Rosso has been screwing over drivers as of late.
Just FTR there's nothing wrong with starting a sentence with a conjunction. It's quite common in fact.
It was always my understanding that Bourdais would like to go back to Indy after F1 as he still likes open wheel racing. So far STR is forcing Bourdais out of that option. So if STR takes Sato, Bourdais would loose an F1 ride and any decent Indy ride along with it (or any at all as HVM is set to announce a driver soon).
TBH, I cant believe the lack of courtesy that STR has on Bourdais
I despise spelling nazi's with a passion, I even made sure to commit the same error I was complaining about when I rebuked. Are we going to have English tests during forum sign up? No? Good, i'll carry on then.
No he wasnt. He decided to wait for the drive, he could have signed for one of those indy teams. He wasnt forced into anything STR dont have a contract saying he has to wait to see who they want to drive for them, he chose to do that.
Deals are made all year round in motorsports, I dont see what the issue is.
Indeed - Play Seats site agrees with that as well:
Becky....becky....what the hell is Indy compared to F1? What driver in their right mind would sign on in a lower tier series if they had a chance to be picked up in F1.
Any driver, ANY driver would wait for an F1 team which is why it's the team's resposibility to show courtesy to its potential drivers. All the other teams have already secured their drivers and therefore given rejected drivers a chance to find work elsewhere as deals in motorsports aren't exactly easy to make especially since these drivers want to secure top tier rides.
Bourdais already has a backup plan incase he doesn't get picked up by STR. However, STR's long silence has forced Bourdais out of any reasonable seat in Indy. Which Bourdais want to pursue after F1.
The big deal is that Bourdais has a very good chance that he will sit out of a top tier open wheel series for 2009. In fact, there's already a chance that he might not even drive at all for 2009 and it's not his fault at all.
Bourdais understand the hardship of F1 drivers and has no regrets if he doesn't get picked up again by STR. After all, STR did throw him a lifeline in 2008. HOWEVER, just because STR threw him a lifeline doesn't mean he should be the team's dog that can be jerked around (which the team seems to do to it's drivers). Bourdais would like to enter Indy if not F1. Therefore he needs time to talk and secure a good ride in Indy. But STR isn't giving him that opportunity because of their unreasonably long silence. This is unprofessional imo considering that F1 drivers have a place to go if they get bumped out of F1. In addition, other teams aren't just going to suddenly void their current deals just to pick up a F1 driver that didn't make it.
That's why courtesy should be given to potential drivers so they dont get stuck out of work or end up worse than the did before they came into F1.
Becky, Indy isn't NASCAR or F1. Indy teams aren't exactly just going to drop their drivers just because someone they want is free. Especially since many of these Indy team have signed on their drivers on long term.
It seems that Bourdais gets his deserved 2nd chance: http://www.scuderiatororosso.com/Team/
nothing official yet...
nothing official yet...
@lizardfolk: contracts dont start on the 1st January and end 31st December. Deals are done all year round, there are historic cases of drivers in the past getting a phone call on the Thureday to get their ass to San Marino for a drive the next morning... There are test seats, which are not necessarily on fixed term contracts, and numerous other formula where opportunities open and close all through the year.
F1 doesn't conform to the Gregorian Calendar and neither does any other race series. I have seen years in F1 when all the contracts where resolved by the 12th round, and other years where half the field was undecided at seasons end.
That is the way of things. Bourdais surely understands that is the nature of racing, and for all we know there delay in confirmation might have come about because of financial issues, can Bourdais sponsors fund the seat? Is Bourdais asking too much cash? etc etc.
Unless you've the inside track on this, I think it's a bit rich to flame the team based on a late confirmation of who's driving for them. For all we know they might not have wanted to confirm their drivers until the first tests for commercial reasons with sponsors or some such.
F1 doesn't conform to the Gregorian Calendar and neither does any other race series. I have seen years in F1 when all the contracts where resolved by the 12th round, and other years where half the field was undecided at seasons end.
That is the way of things. Bourdais surely understands that is the nature of racing, and for all we know there delay in confirmation might have come about because of financial issues, can Bourdais sponsors fund the seat? Is Bourdais asking too much cash? etc etc.
Unless you've the inside track on this, I think it's a bit rich to flame the team based on a late confirmation of who's driving for them. For all we know they might not have wanted to confirm their drivers until the first tests for commercial reasons with sponsors or some such.
Becky...my discontent is hardly from now own idle speculation. It's mainly from articles like this: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/ ... es-slipping-bourdais.html
Yes...deals are made all around, but if a Indy team signs a driver for a full 2009 season they aren't just going to suddenly void the driver's contract if Bourdais suddenly becomes free. That's what I mean. Yes, sure, deals are made all around the year but this is mostly back/midfielder teams (and mind you Bourdais shouldn't be dealing with these teams in the first place) while top dog teams usually sign drivers for 2-5 years
Again, the teams that Bourdais had a good shot in securing aren't just going to void their current engagement. NASCAR's GEM did that about a few week ago and the driver sued to stay and the team ended up settling...
If F1 works differently, fine. But Bourdais wanted to go back to Indy (premier NA open wheel) and thus he shouldn't have to be forced out of a good ride in Indy because of a lack of courtesy from F1. After all, the other teams didn't wait until the end of time to confirm their contracts
That article is speculation from a pundit with no inside information either *shrug*
Becky.....
Fact:
Penske signed Power
Haas signed Doornbos
Ganassi has Franchitti and Dixon
Bourdais was looking into Penske and Haas now they are gone. Two absolute front runners are gone...(and fyi imho HVM isn't that good)
yep
when will STR confirms the 2nd driver.......
There's a rumor that Bourdais is retained...dont know if this is reliable or not
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21131.html
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21131.html
Bourdais is the sensible choice. Overall experience, continuity from last season, proven performer.
If they don't keep Bourdais, then they should go all out for a promising young gun (which Buemi is NOT, IMHO) like Lucas Di Grassi or Bruno Senna.
If they don't keep Bourdais, then they should go all out for a promising young gun (which Buemi is NOT, IMHO) like Lucas Di Grassi or Bruno Senna.
They will go for whoever can bring in the monies. That's just FACT. I certain team who's just lost sponsorship from a certain bank has just taken on a paying driver.
Its a balancing act for sure (they can't go for a complete idiot) but I can think of 5-10 drivers out there at the moment who contain more talent than who is being suggested and will never even be suggested for an F1 drive
Di Grassi is probably the best of the ones being suggested, that's just where my instict is drawn too. But F1 is now about saving money and at the moment teams who are struggling WITHOUT doubt will go more towards a driver that can bring in cash than one who can't
Toro Rosso Confirms Buemi
(55 posts, started )
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