Of course you are free to voice your opinions about the rules and discussion, we just want to keep those announcements nice and tidy. So if you got anything to say: shoot.

"In order to be scored, a team must cross the line after the full time has expired."

shouldn`t it be that a team must cross the line after the winner has done so after the race-time ?

No

Quote from gloom :

"In order to be scored, a team must cross the line after the full time has expired."

shouldn`t it be that a team must cross the line after the winner has done so after the race-time ?

i think you're right ace - that's why we see these huge traffic jams on almost every 24h race with tons of cars waiting for the lader to pass them on the finish straight - the race is over after the leading car crosses the finish line for the first time after the time expired. all other cars that cross the line after the time period but before the leader finishes have to drive an additional lap.

Isnt that some gentlemens agreement? So that the lead car is the first to pass the finish line, for the photos and publicity etc?

I can remember from a few years back, at Monaco. During the f1 event it was raining and the race would last longer then 2 hours. I believe the car on the 7th place was the first to get the flag..? Or at least the results looked very funny just after the first car to cross the finish line.

Could be wrong though

Quote from Frankmd :

Isnt that some gentlemens agreement? So that the lead car is the first to pass the finish line, for the photos and publicity etc?

i don't think so - they are waiting sometimes a couple of minutes for the leader on such long tracks as the nordschleife, just to have to drive one less lap - because if you throw it all away in your last lap after 24 hours of racing, you wouldn't exactly be happy...

and if you do not make it over the finish line on your own, you haven't finished the race - kind of like here at LfS - so they try to minimize the risk

that's how i remember all i've seen and heard about the rules at a 24h race like the one at the nordschleife every year - if someone actually KNOWS better, feel free to correct me. i have never driven a race there, so my knowledge is limited to every tv broadcast i watched and to some articles i read about that

Well, DasKlee is right. What was meant with the rule is basically, that a team doesnt get scored if they aren't around in the end. But we will change it. Thanks for pointing it out.

And yes, cars wait behind the leader in these races because they would have to turn another lap otherwise.

The rules of the Nürburgring 24h race 2005: http://www.24h-rennen.de/pdf/Ausschreibung_2005.pdf

Quote :

38.1
The end-of-race signal will be given as soon as the 24
hours race time has elapsed.

.....so its NOT necessarily the leader!

Quote :

38.3
In order to be classified, all crews must pass the finish line
(race track - not pit lane) without any outside assistance
within the 20 minute following the end-of-race signal.

So there is probably a mixture of a gentleman's agreement that lets the other racers wait for the leader and the fear to be forced to do another 25,378km long lap which lets the drivers wait until they are absolutely sure the 24h are over.....

CU, Sebastian

Quote from Hoellsen :

Well, DasKlee is right. What was meant with the rule is basically, that a team doesnt get scored if they aren't around in the end. But we will change it. Thanks for pointing it out.

And yes, cars wait behind the leader in these races because they would have to turn another lap otherwise.

actually it was ace that mentioned it first, not me

....actually in accordance to the rules I stated above you were not right

Edit - The rule is even more clear in german. The car that is the first to pass the Finish line after more than 24h is the first to see the checkered flag.....no matter which position this car has!

This is what it says in Le Mans rules:

Quote :

ART. 24 - FINISH
24.1 - Chequered flag : SR
Once the duration of the race expires or when the distance to cover is
achieved, the chequered flag will be waved at the car classified first in
the General Classification as it crosses the start/finish line on the race
track.

Meaning to me that the leading car is what is relevant. And since the MoE is more modelled after the ACO events than after the 24h of the Nürburgring, this is what counts to me. I suppose they don't do it at the Ring because of the length of a lap.

I agree

Hi.....

Quote :

Teams can substitute team members. However, a driver can only start for two teams during a season at most and he can only switch teams one time.

Does this mean that a driver can switch teams only once [b]in a season?

Just want clarification on this before the first race

CU, Sebastian

Correct. Btw, the promised slight rules updates (what we discussed here) will come this week, maybe already tomorrow, if not Thursday.

Thanks

Could we get one of the qualifying sessions moved to a North-America-friendly time slot or to a weekend day? 2100 CET Monday and Friday is right in the middle of my work day. For Mon. or Fri. I would need it about 6 hours later. For a weekend the 2100 CET time is fine.

Okay, we have a made a few minor modifications:

1. Scoring now reflects what we have discussed above.

2. Disconnects are penalized with 2 laps as well (or the amount of laps it takes the team to reconnect if it takes longer than two laps). This is to make sure a team straned on the track does not disconnect to circumvent the 2lap penalty.

3. Qualifying days moved to Sunday and Thursday in order for our North-American racers. Thursday because it leaves a bit more time before the race. This change does not apply for the 12h of Kyoto.

4. The appeals-rule includes a "must submit replay" part now. This is in order to make sure we do have a replay of the scene. Of course we hope this rule won't be necessary.

Points filled in and slight update to the appeals-rule.

Thanks!

I want to bring up the 40% rule.

For small teams with 3 racers, that might have some unexpected time prob during a race this rule is really hard.
I would suggest that 1 driver might do max 49.9999% and the rest isnt allowed to hit 40%. We really ran into percentage trouble yesterday cause of unplanned interruptions.

i think the +2laps-penalty for a pit in or disconnect is too hard. +1 lap should be sufficient as you lose the lap you are in too.

i just suggest this for the next race. i know we stuck in the sandpit in kyoto (which happened because of a very weird racing line of a lapped driver) and it would be cheap if we want that penalty reduced.

so, what about only 1 lap?

As I said yesterday, I'm really for no penalty at all in case of disconnection. We had two, and lost 4 laps PLUS the two laps where we were disconected A disconection is already a good penaly, please don't add one because it kills the race of a team even for 12hours events, where you could easily get back 1 lap, but not 5 :/

I would like to adress the chat issue.

Although this is a somewhat serious racing event, I think we all agree that the fun comes first here. There is no money involved like in the EPS and everything is a little bit more casual.
I don't really see what's wrong with e.g. posting smiley in certain situations. It just adds to the fun, in my opinion, when I can post or read a smiley after a nice pass or whatever.

I am not talking about discussing incidents or such, that DOES get annoying. But reading a nice little or 'good pass' just gives me a warm feeling because then I remember that I am doing this for fun

even if it's a fun event, it's still annoying if you read the chat and drive off the road and maybe ruin the whole race just because of a stupid smiley.

but i think we could allow chat blocking. Admins can address messages directly to the user, so nobody would miss an important announcement.

i think that would be a good compromise.


about the penalty: if you just lose the actual lap, people would just disconnect with a damaged car or punctures instead of driving to the pits. i think we should enforce the teams to stay in the ranking, because you lose much fun if someone reconnects and you don't know who's driving against you and who not.
Of course you could check if it's a intended disco or not, but who will do that during the race? I don't think that's possible.
So i think -1 lap is a good compromise (from the next race on).

Maybe you should check what's causing the disconnects instead? At least the first 6 teams didn't have a disconnect at all.

We removed the penalty for "legit" disconnects. We found a way to extend the tracker to recognize real disconnects. However, the 2lap penalty for graveltrap/damage/out of fuel stands.

If we recognize that people disconnect manually to circumvent above mentioned situations, they will be assessed a 2 lap penalty and a stop and go.

The 40% rule stands. It was added to avoid teams having their best driver drive most of the race. We feel this reason is very valid and that OCR's situation should be solved differently than by removing that rule. If it were down to hardware problems or something like that, an exception can most probably be made. But except for the 12h of Kyoto the schedule is know long enough beforehand that teams should be able to get their scheduling and planning done well ahead and therefore they should not run into time problems.