I've seen P1 and P2 both be disqualified at Brands Hatch for consistently cutting the track which was just 1 or sometimes 2 wheels on the grass.

Then again in F1, drivers seem to be able to steal as much as they like, even battering bollards down like at Bus Stop at Spa.

It really depends on the track owner and marshalls. If it's your server, you can make the rules

Quote from DevilDare :

and what where you trying to prove with this post? like everyone else said, 2 tyres on grass is fine. Stop whining about people beating you and go play some more...

First of all, it's not a whine, 'cause I could slam your arse down any day of the week.
Second of all, I'm explaining for the people who think white lines are more important than kerbs, in LFS, it's different.
If I was to whine, I'd complain about corner cutting, and saying everyone is so much faster, and that's why I'm not as fast, because people put their car off the track another few inches than others. I'm stating the facts, you idiot.

Quote from [DUcK] :

First of all, it's not a whine, 'cause I could slam your arse down any day of the week.
Second of all, I'm explaining for the people who think white lines are more important than kerbs, in LFS, it's different.
If I was to whine, I'd complain about corner cutting, and saying everyone is so much faster, and that's why I'm not as fast, because people put their car off the track another few inches than others. I'm stating the facts, you idiot.

nah i think your the idiot here, cos my post was towards Overboard Productions, you idiot

Quote from DevilDare :

nah i think your the idiot here, cos my post was towards Overboard Productions, you idiot

try to qoute it so people know that

Go breadz!!

Dirt on the tires slows you down A LOT for the next corner anyway.

If a particular line is HLVC legal, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with it.

Last year, in the ALMS race on the redesigned Lime Rock pretty much everybody cut the chicane where the West Bend was before... Just as an example that it can happen, but if the stewards are strict you WILL get a penalty...

Anyway, there are 2 things which are wrong in LfS:
1. People consider rumblestrips and run-offs are part of the track, which they are not, and
2. The rumblestrips themselves are ridiculously oversized - I've seen only a handful IN THE WHOLE WORLD wide enough to park a whole car on them, yet you can do that easily on a vast majority of them in LfS... The only track where the size is about right is Fern Bay - but those are way to steep...

I am Kenn Cramer, who is mentioned in the first post.

Quote from Overboard Productions :

So now because of drivers who lack honesty, integrity and the ability to keep there car on the track at all times, our track looks like Old Mcdonlds, farm.

The real problem is, that you (overboard) have taken this personal. I have told you that I would do whatever the server rules says, but there was no especific rules for this. You put some cones, and I commented to you, that I would have prefered to have them removed, because I think they were in the racing line. You have another idea..ok for me, but don´t call everybody a cheater, just because you have your own ideas..and they were not even written down at the time being.

I would also apreciate, if you (overboard) could write about this interesting topic without mentioning names. It just shows you have a personal problem with me.

I would also have prefered that you informed me, that you were going to write this post and critizicing my driving. Then it could give me a fair way to make answers to this post. It was just because a friend of mine told me about it, i can correspond to it.

Quote from Kaw :

How can you call him a cheater by using a little bit of the grass? That is stupid imo. And dont you see the tires LFS dev's put there in first place, they are blocking for complete cutting.

And arent Name and Shaming not allowed on this forum?

Quote from [DUcK] :

Well in LFS, i think to put it pretty simply: 2 tyres off the track at almost any time is okay, 3 or 4 is fail. Simple as that, and I'm quite sure that applies to almost every corner on all tracks (this is HLVC).
There's been many, many arguments about this in the MoE race at Ky long, the chicane coming off the oval section. The rule is, that you must have at least 2 tyres on the track at all times. The kerbing is included as the track.

Kaw,DUcK, DevilDare among others have understood the problem here correct!..thx

By the way, sorry for showing this, but according to your principles..I have seen the replay. And you are not any different. Look at the attached files for example. That´s exactly the "cutting" that you are critizising me and others for doing, but you do it yourself...there and other places..and it´s not the only times on that replay. And it´s you, Overboard (OBP 55)

I´m just telling you to relax and don´t think that you are more right than others. What is right and what is wrong is to be discussed, but it´s good to listen to others and look at yourself before judging.

G'day, just checked in to have a look and wow, what a response.

Its good to know there are people who like me believe that you should not drive on the grass.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/b ... press/3268106337/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/b ... press/3268106469/sizes/l/

As for the others, thanks for speaking out and well, please don't come to my host, cause i'd rather drive alone please.

As for you kenn, I read your reply and wow, yet again, you go off half cocked and under prepared, more worried about being labeled a cheater, than actually changing your ways.
Included in your reply kenn, were 2 photo's of me running 2 wheels across the grass. What u conveniently failed to mention was the following:

At the time these pics were taken:
1.NARA HOST was still in development, Raimo is Programmer, OBP 55(me) is in charge of blocking all potential shortcuts, on all tracks. (Kenn you Knew i was making 55 layouts named "nocut" and testing them all for shortcuts) so don't play dumb, or act like u forget now, thats just a lie, by omission. shame on you.
look at the pics, You will also notice there are no objects placed yet. proof you got me during development looking for shortcuts. Good job Kenn !

2. What u also know kenn, (cause we told you) but again failed to mention because YOU are the angry one, is that since then, Raimo and I went to LFSW and Deleted all our PB's !! (but to tell everyone that, wouldn't prove your point would it...hmmm)
So Mate, you really are reaching. How about a replay, that shows me cutting the corner hitting objects, everylap like you were doing, it wont happen becuase I dont do it. and if i did, why would I put objects all over my own track ? Thats just craziness bro... you should have thought your post through first

3. NARAARR has No specific rules for cutting you say ken... I put bales and cones there. These objects mate, the ones off the track... are an "UN-Spoken" rule: DONT HIT THEM !!!
You say I don't have a "No Shortcut" rule. Kenn, you really want things spelt out so u can read ?
Do i need to have a rule that says don't run other drivers off the road ? so that you will know this ? or do you already know ?
If you already know this then you know what an "Unspoken-Rule" is.
kenn, I EXPECT good behaviour in my server, I don't ask for it.

You dont think hitting 8 cones everylap is breaking our un-spoken rule ?, what about when I put bales in 5 minutes later ? I'm the host, that was my rule, and you complained for an hour about a bale that wasn't even on the track. The cones and bales ARE our rules. (the un-spoken ones remember ?) you broke those rules every lap, lap after lap, refused to stop when warned and hence u were banned form our host.

Ur post kenn, contains quotes from other people, but you dont have too much to say for yourself, you even fail to discuss the subject ! "Is the red or green line cutting" you seem more concerned with trying to tarnish my name, than to improve the tattered image of your own.

After this post, I wont be Looking back. I will not attempt to convince those of you who are cheating, not to. How can I tell a "Multiplayer" World Record Holder to stop cutting the grass, when he knows thats what he has do to to get the next one ?

I should also remember, for myself that this simuluator, the one i get up each day to drive in, is considered a game by many people, (yeah all you who said grass is ok to drive on) and that as long as you are playing a game, and I a simulator, we'll never get on, because you drive to win at ALL costs, I drive to win while having FUN, and being CHALLENGED.

Why don't you go into llfs "Hotlapping" I know ill pull the same times approx. level with my PB's, will you ?

Just a few comments before I go to:

Timdpr - You dont know what kenn said to me about cutting my track, you werent there bro, dont act like you were !!! wow you'd say anything wouldn't ya!

pearcy 2k7 - You say getting dirt on ur tyres will slow you down for the next corner, In the Most part I agree, but this still does not cover the topic about is it right or not to be on the grass in the first place. and also, for cars like RB4, Grass isn't always a problem on the next turn.

KAW - Using a "little bit of the grass" is the same as using a whole heap of grass, in real life, this throws crap on the road and makes it difficult for the drivers behind, once or twice by accident, but every lap ? na

Dajmin - fairly well said bro, but youll be suprised what people want to try, even through the sand. From time to time, Ive actually seen people get through there and come out the other side fairly ok ! so yeah hence the bails in the sand area.

S14 Drift - I agree that the Lap record involves Shortcutting. but take a look at the pic above, ur telling me this is ok ? (This is what kenn was doing). I disagree.

March Hare & boothy - Good idea, but I prefer to drive more than I watch, and sifting through replays looking for problems is to time consuming. Besides the cutter, got to stay in the race the whole time and effect others like the butterfly effect.. not good

Zen321 - You seem like my type of driver, your welcome anytime.

frokki - Well put champ.

gezmoor - Yeah mate, you got the right idea.

[DUcK] - Yes the Kerbing can be considered part of the track, but no the grass is never considered part of the track, It is OFF the track. So if u have 2 wheels on the grass, then 1 side of your car is "Off" the track, sounds simple to me !

DevilDare says: and what where you trying to prove with this post? like everyone else said, 2 tyres on grass is fine. Stop whining about people beating you and go play some more...
***Mr Devildare, Learn to read champ. firstly, not everyone else said 2 tyres on the grass was ok, (Read back, [if you know how to read]) so yeahh errmm hmmm smart comment

southamptonfc - Good one bro

Forbin - says: Dirt on the tires slows you down A LOT for the next corner anyway.
If a particular line is HLVC legal, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with it.

***This is all i can do/show for this one....



bbman - Well said mate


So yeah, kenn. not only do i think you are a cheat, but now i think you are a liar. you were told by Raimo. and I on many occasions about this, and your being banned from our server was a joint decision made to protect the scoreboards, for the honest people. You were no longer producing competitive times and were looking for an edge, well i'm sorry bro, cutting is not the way to do it. So i guess now, youll say Raimo has something personal against you.
saying I take it personally, is just a ruse to hide the real question....

Are you prepared to stop cutting across the grass ?

Quote from Overboard Productions :

you seem more concerned with trying to tarnish my name, than to improve the tattered image of your own.

And looks like you are so concerned with tarnishing his name that you didn't realize that you may well be right but the tone of your post is ridiculous, "champ".

Quote from zeugnimod :

And looks like you are so concerned with tarnishing his name that you didn't realize that you may well be right but the tone of your post is ridiculous, "champ".

On topic, as long 2 wheels remain on the kurb (which I'm guessing would be HLVC, or whatever it is, legal), then it's allowed..

Really, I don't see why this is such a big deal. ._.

Quote from zeugnimod :

And looks like you are so concerned with tarnishing his name that you didn't realize that you may well be right but the tone of your post is ridiculous, "champ".

Exactly.

There is (and have ever been) nothing questionable regarding this topic. Could you guys please take your sandbox wars elsewhere before it gets worse?

Overboard:
In post 33 I have told my opinion. You can keep your server for yourself, because i´m not interested in your way of treating people, who come there. I don´t want to be accused for being a cheater and a liar. I don´t want to see you treating people like you do. You are a very bad admin. Go practice instead! I have better joy elsewhere. Get a life!

I think , what you do is harressing me, and I will think about reporting you to the owner of this forum, if you don´t stop!

EDIT: I have a attached a replay, which shows you the way I drive. I don´t think a lot of you would say that I really am cutting. I´m actually a very calm driver.

But don´t forget, what I don´t like is your behaviour, not so much your rules!

1) Overcutting is not good, 4 wheels on grass is off the track. I wouldn't brand people cheaters but I also think it's a bit annoying.

BUT:

We'd have to close down CD1 if we applied your rules. Every single racer, every lap, every race has 2 wheels on kerb and 2 on grass through the chicane. If the kerb is not part of the track and that's cheating then every single racer on our servers is a cheater and we'd have to issue around 6000 permanent bans right now.

We do delete pbs done jumping the chicane altogehter and kick/ban drivers who do it repeatedly. 4 wheels on grass every lap is not tolerated. 2 wheels on kerb and 2 on grass are considered the racing line.

We never felt it was necessary to go and publically shame anyone for doing so, I think that's a bit over the top.

2) I raced aston cadet on the UFR extensively when it was on CD6 and had a top 10 time til we closed the combo (long before the latest patches). I did over 4000 laps there in UFR. I honestly think there is no gain cutting there. I always thought that keeping traction with track through the chicane (or at least when you ragain it upon "landing" at the bottom) made me faster through that part of the track.

So if anything Humbleridderen harmed his laptimes rather than gain an advantage.

aceracer

Quote from Humbleridderen :

Overboard:

I think , what you do is harressing me, and I will think about reporting you to the owner of this forum, if you don´t stop!

I have attached the replay, which is exactly that session, where you say I´m bad and you are good. LOL

But don´t forget, what I don´t like is your behaviour, not so much your rules!

Again your wrong kenn,
Its the same mistake in 2 seperate posts
You already know, and I stated in my last post that this so called material u present is months old. The host has not been built/planned properly at the time of the replay, you obviously cant read/understand correctly, and by the way your the one putting replays and pictures of me up, not the other way around. so think about who is harassing who.

If u dont remember mate were on AS1 now(Were I banned You the other day), not AS1R. this AS1R replay must be from over a month ago atleast, when we were first building the other track.

As i stated in my last post, my PB's have long been deleted since these shots/this replay. (You knew this) So STOP acting innocent and pretending to be ignorant. - Who is trying to make who look silly ?
Ive spent weeks/months doing anti shortcuts.

Considering you don't know me, you don't know how I behave. So dont mistake getting the boot, with my behaviour. it was your Driving. On being told about it, you started swearing at me. I only thanked you for your Honesty. you remember ohh thats right, i'm sure you dont.

The only 1 rule you had to follow Don't cut the Grass !

Oh and by the way, you were banned first bro, You were rejected. So you have no chance to come back anyway, not for another 997 days anyway.

see you then, not.

This has gone a tad too far, hehe
I think the time you'd gain by cutting there is so minimal that it doesn't matter. Remember what you do in a game is different to what you'd do in real life, as you can push the envolope, so to speak, a lot further

Edit: Omg I can't believe you banned him for 'cutting' dude!

Whatever replay it is, it clearly shows the way i´m driving and your too. I think you (overboard) overdramatize a lot here

Trust me, you don't gain time by cutting there. You mess the last turn if you hit the grass in the chicane. And the time gained in the chicane isn't compareable to the time you lose in the last turn. No matter if you cut with 2 wheels or 4. Try it, check it.

Quote from RevengeR :

Trust me, you don't gain time by cutting there. You mess the last turn if you hit the grass in the chicane. And the time gained in the chicane isn't compareable to the time you lose in the last turn. No matter if you cut with 2 wheels or 4. Try it, check it.

You are completely right.

I have found and attached the replay, wherefrom all this discussion began. It was as1, right! It´s from 3rd of february 2009. Here you can see, I have sometimes 2 wheels on the curb and 2 wheels on the grass and i´m hitting the cones, sure! I hit them, because in my opinion, they were malplaced there in the raceline . I knew that he was experimenting with the layout, so i really didn´t think, that this could harm him. Actually, I commented this to him on teamspeak, suggesting to remove them from there.

Anyway, I don´t want to come there anymore. Not because of the special rules, but because of the rude treatment I got there, just because of this..

Quote :

AS1_3R Coneshitting.rar (1.31 MB, 0 views)

Cone Shitting is not a very nice thing to do

Regardless...I think the topic starter went completely overboard with this discussion

hence the name "Overboard Productions"

Obvious lovers tiff is obvious.

Take it to PM.

<3 you OBP!

Quote from Overboard Productions :

...

You have certenly gone overboard on this. (the namecalling that is)

Watch a few touringcar races, like wtcc, and you see that the standard is "if you can cut without breaking the car too much, you cut". At some very few circuits there are special corners has a no cut rule set by the officials where they give warnings for cutting (mostly becuase it damages the track or pulls up dirt on the track)

The easiest rule is, if the game permits it, its OK. If the game permits eccessive cutting, the game is wrong and should be fixed, like making the suspension weaker, the grass bumpier or the tyres dirtier. (fill the the air intakes with grass and sand).

Quote from heson :

You have certenly gone overboard on this. (the namecalling that is)

Watch a few touringcar races, like wtcc, and you see that the standard is "if you can cut without breaking the car too much, you cut". At some very few circuits there are special corners has a no cut rule set by the officials where they give warnings for cutting (mostly becuase it damages the track or pulls up dirt on the track)

The easiest rule is, if the game permits it, its OK. If the game permits eccessive cutting, the game is wrong and should be fixed, like making the suspension weaker, the grass bumpier or the tyres dirtier. (fill the the air intakes with grass and sand).

I agree! Then we wouldn´t have all these stupid discussions