I've been messing around with LFS's engine sound generation system and an idea hit me that would make the current system sound much better. At the same time it would improve the simulation aspect as well.

Right now as it is the sound is too even, the engine sound doesn't vary enough. It apears as if there is absolutely no drivetrain flex or backlash at all. This is especialy noticable on the GTRs where the gear whine is loud enough.

On a straight cut gearbox like the one's used in the GTRs there would be backlash in the gears, this is imposible to avoid because of the way the gears are made. When you lift off there should be a flutter to the Gear whine during the change from acceleration to deceleration and also going the other way from deceleration to acceleraton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHLEUijdW50
This is a good example, athough the track is a bit bumpy and adds to the effect at areas, the sound I am talking about is demonstrated perfectly around 0:55-0:59. The track is nearly smooth but the drivetrain flexes causing the car to bounce, which causes the backlash in the transmission to make a fluttering sound.

This is where LFS seems to simulate things alittle too exactly, it simulates a perfect drive train where there is no backlash or flex.

I don't know exactly what it would take to add this, but judging by the way LFSs engine sound system apears to work, adding the physics part should be all that is needed.

So what do you think?

Good point, I like that. In fact, I like any sound improvements. I'd like to have some backfires on gear changes included. Like a dinosaur politely chuckling

Yeah, I quite like this idea.

I've always been for making the LFS sounds more realistic, of course we have the in-game sound editor however this can only do so much.

As for the backlash thing, I think it'd be a really good feature and would add to the simulation of racing the GTR's.

However, we await to see when/if the LFS sound engine and drivetrain simulation gets an overhaul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page

Might be showing it abit better?

Quote from Tim_J_23 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page

Might be showing it abit better?

Ouch, my ears.

Quote from DragonCommando :

So what do you think?

+1

Yes, LFS really needs more and better sounds. IMO more so than graphical updates. Not just engine sounds, but bumps and thumps from hitting curbs, dust and dirt and rocks hitting the windshield, scraping metal from contact, and squishy meaty noises from a driver's body being ripped apart in a sick crash (OK, maybe not so much on the last one).

Quote from Tim_J_23 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... &feature=channel_page

Might be showing it abit better?

Its realy funny, I looked everywhere for a video like that and coulden't find one. That transmission is LOUD.

I'm currently working on completely custom sounds for LFS, ones that arn't riced up or made with crap samples, and that video might work well for sampling the transmission whine if it would stay constant just for 0.30sec. I've currently got it sounding pretty good with the default samples, I've eliminated clipping in most of the cars, the BF1 clips no matter what because of wind, and I've balanced the sounds realisticaly.

All thats left to make them sound good after the new samples is the drivetrain flex and backlash.

Quote from DragonCommando :

Its realy funny, I looked everywhere for a video like that and coulden't find one. That transmission is LOUD.

I'm currently working on completely custom sounds for LFS, ones that arn't riced up or made with crap samples, and that video might work well for sampling the transmission whine if it would stay constant just for 0.30sec. I've currently got it sounding pretty good with the default samples, I've eliminated clipping in most of the cars, the BF1 clips no matter what because of wind, and I've balanced the sounds realisticaly.

All thats left to make them sound good after the new samples is the drivetrain flex and backlash.

I cant wait for a soundpack like that for LFS to come to life agian.
I wish you the best of luck with it

+1


very good idea

Quote from Chrisuu01 :

I cant wait for a soundpack like that for LFS to come to life agian.
I wish you the best of luck with it

Thank you

The sound pack is going to take a while though, I'll probably release it after the new car comes out. I'm trying to get samples from the real life cars LFSs cars are based on, getting clean samples is going to take some time.

Good luck with it.

Yep, looking forward to it.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Ouch, my ears.

yeah that's nasty... what's wrong with that car...

Quote from bunder9999 :

yeah that's nasty... what's wrong with that car...

Straight cut dog box, and a high performance diff. Nothing wrong realy, just racing parts.

Could you imagine actualy driving it, if its that bad for a short video the driver must be deaf after a whole race.

Quote from DragonCommando :

Straight cut dog box, and a high performance diff. Nothing wrong realy, just racing parts.

Could you imagine actualy driving it, if its that bad for a short video the driver must be deaf after a whole race.

i wonder how much noise the helmet cancels out...

straight cut dog bawks = yum. That sound is music to my ears
that and a screamer pipe off a turbo....mmmm
or a kenne belle supercharger off a mustang, heard one of these on a video and fell in love with that whine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87n8jhVO784 <3

+1 (standard answer for sound improvement)

I also wanted to start a thread because of something sound related: the way the mixer works atm is pretty much dark ages and it's a pain in the arse to get the sound to your liking while preventing clipping. Even some of the standard "mixes" clip. To get rid of the clipping you have to lower each source (muffler, header and so on) separately, which makes it hard to keep your mix the same.
Hope this is changed soon.

Quote from Bandit77 :

+1 (standard answer for sound improvement)

I also wanted to start a thread because of something sound related: the way the mixer works atm is pretty much dark ages and it's a pain in the arse to get the sound to your liking while preventing clipping. Even some of the standard "mixes" clip. To get rid of the clipping you have to lower each source (muffler, header and so on) separately, which makes it hard to keep your mix the same.
Hope this is changed soon.

This is actualy something I was about to talk about.

One of the biggest problems I'm having is that I can't use the sound clips I get directly because the Bass seems to automaticaly be boosted in LFS, which causes insane amounts of clipping.

I started a new thread about my custom engine sounds, its located here:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1076305#post1076305

Quote from DragonCommando :

One of the biggest problems I'm having is that I can't use the sound clips I get directly because the Bass seems to automaticaly be boosted in LFS, which causes insane amounts of clipping.

Yep, that is why it is a lot harder than people think to get good ORIGINAL sounds for the cars. You have to record a clip which can only be about 0.07 seconds anyway, and then most of the time is doesnt work because you get hardly any sound but a ton of clipping. My most recent soundpack uses my own sample recording. It took a long time to find one that works properly and sounds original with a nice and realistic engine sound.

you should check out the other thread and tell me what you think about the sound, I have a recording of my new XRR sounds in game.

You've touched on a real hole in LFS. The entire sound engine needs reworking. I applaud the changes you recommend. However I'd like it to go further. We need the sounds from the suspension working, stones etc hitting insides of fenders... the sounds of the entire car flexing. Race 07 sim gives an excellent example of how to do this well. On top of this, the car needs to move around the driver, particularly going over bumps, and particularly the natural movements of the driver as his whole body attempts to lean into corners. Currently this is poorly simulated with just a slight head tilt. I'd like to see the current driver positioning controls be made dynamic in 3 dimensions. So he bounces & strains against the harness over bumps. My ultimate wish list is the driver being thrown forward in a crash against his harness... small movements but add to the immersion.

On the whole, I'd like to see the sound and dynamics of the car/driver be brought up to date with the new immersion sensations of Race 07. LFS is a much better sim than Race 07, but doesn't compare with the immersiveness & intensity of Race 07 or netKar Pro.

Venus

It's entirely possible to add the driver as a separate physics entity and then constrain him into the car seat, model the padding of the seat like damped suspension, and so on, but what does it buy you from an internal camera? Might as well just work on making the camera move more realistically, IMO.

Quote from bunder9999 :

i wonder how much noise the helmet cancels out...

More than you'd think. I got a ride in an ARC Impreza rally car once and could not believe how much sound got cut out.

Bump (avoiding making new thread)

Drivetrain play/backlash would be an interesting improvement to the sim. The feature would make being more precise with throttle blips, clutch slip, and throttle lift. Especially in the lower gear changes, the drivetrain would bounce a bit before stabilizing.