If you're having problems feeding in the power with a button, you could always reduce the button-control-rate value, so that the "pedal" is pressed more slowly. This does have negative side-effects, but try it anyway.
Well, it's not that I'm assuming everyone complaining can't drive, it's just that I'm tired of seeing a new thread on this every other day. I really no longer think their is a problem with grip. The first track I tried in S2 was AS National with the FZR. At the start, I spun the tires and spun into the wall, turn 1 tail would come out and I'm in the grass, turn 2 (sharp left hander) brake, turn and bam I'm spun out. Get straightened out, maybe get through up the hill around the 180 right hander and get into the chicane just to spin out there. I spun everywhere. It wasn't a matter of no grip, it was learning the throttle modulation. A few laps into my S2 newbie stage and I was not even touching the throttle at all until I was perfectly straight coming out of the turns. Now after running hundreds of laps not just at AS Nat (600 or so) but running the FZR at many of the other tracks, I am starting to trailbrake in some of the turns and getting back on the throttle quick at the apex and throttling out. I am by far not the fastest out there. I am midpack in the few tracks I know and at the tail end of the tracks I don't know yet (which are many). But I think the original posts that start these "there's no grip" threads come from newer racers who really don't know the cars and tracks all that well yet and may still really be use to the arcadey race games that they are coming here from. I don't mean to say learn how to drive, but more give it some time to get use to how the cars drive, get the setup good for the track and to learn the track and it's little details that make it possible to run good laps.
Good advice here. Many of us used to wear a grimace and now we wear a smile. In time as track knowledge increases and you hone your set to suit your driving, you find yourself changing too. I wonder how many racers have noticed just how different they drive now than they used to. I think we would all welcome more grip, what racer wouldn't? But it has been proven that a great improvement can be made just by practicing with a good set.
One area that I can't emphasize enough is throttle control. This isn't as simple as just being careful not to spin out, the smoother you can deliver the power to the tarmac the faster your laps will be, the longer your tyres and fuel will last and the more grip you will have. Throttle control is also an essential skill to aid the cornering behaviour of your car. Being very aware of throttle control will certainly improve all aspects of your driving and reduce spins and burnouts tenfold.
Remember too that an inadequate setup will frustrate you and prevent you from driving your best.
I have to agree with this. Well, there may be a problem, but it's not what most people seem to think. When I first tried the game I found it very difficult and sometimes frustrating. After running some laps and trying the Easy Race setups, I no longer have a problem with grip. And I've only been playing this game about two weeks, so this is not some huge learning curve we're talking about. Sure, if I mash the throttle in the more powerful cars the tail comes out, but it would in real life as well. I think it's pretty obvious that the tires/track can't really be slippery or we wouldn't have guys (lots of them) pulling fast laps consistently like we do. There are PLENTY of people out there who can run 30 laps around the long tracks in the fastest cars without ever going off track and without losing their pace. The tires last, they stay on the track, and they're fast.
I think that a proper setup cures 90% of the "problem" that people have. The rest is just throttle control and folks who drive 130hp cars not being able to handle a 400hp, lightweight, RWD race car. Add to that the fact that most people are playing on a 19" (or smaller) screen and you compound the problem because they don't get the same sense of speed that they do in a real car. If LFS shipped with the Easy Race or Road Going setups as defaults, I bet we would get these types of threads way, WAY less often.
While there may be a slight problem with the physics (setups that look good on paper not working in-game), lack of grip is really not the problem IMO.
Exactly the reason i suggested Bob's Easy and Road going setups to be "defaults" in the new patch, or S2 final...
No, really? I'd like to see a vid of a car with its wheel at full lock going 25km/h without losing grip on the front wheels.
Note to self:
Get wife to video me driving to work in the morning...:splat:
Get wife to video me driving to work in the morning...:splat:
note to you : buy a FWD with 100HP for 800kg, hit full gas in 1st or second gear with full wheel lock and you'll see... I bet you'll loose your nose as soon sas the pedal reach de metal :-)
(Btw : Yes, I did more than once the test myself with such as car - my new one does not sleep because of that stupid anti-slipping device)
(Btw : Yes, I did more than once the test myself with such as car - my new one does not sleep because of that stupid anti-slipping device)
I have one of these cars. But what you said it's different of what I said. I said 'until you reach 25 km/h', and not 'full throttle'.
BTW, of course my car (and any one, even 'baby cars'...) don't lose grip at 25 km/h.
Why LFS fans have this huge difficult to say that the game has wrong tires physics? I can't understand this behaviour.
But they're only WRONG below 25km/h. How often do you EVER go that slow in a race? If you do so, then you won't win often. Above 25km/h, bar a few detail issues, the tyre modelling is VERY VERY good, i.e. at speeds that MATTER.
Why people keep trying to rubbish LFS by saying at tiny speed it's rubbish? I can't understand this behaviour.
Why people keep trying to rubbish LFS by saying at tiny speed it's rubbish? I can't understand this behaviour.
No. Wrong. I'm talking about 25 km/h because is more easy to see the huge problem with tire physics that LFS has. You can see this problem at all speeds, but it's only more noticeable at med-low speeds. Play a real simulation game, like GTR, GTL, rFactor and you'll see. Better than this: drive a real car. You'll never lose grip too easily.
Low speed physics HAVE to be different to medium/high speed physics, so in fact the low speed problems shouldn't be apparent at high speed.
:ices_rofl
:ices_rofl
LOL. They aren't real simulations! They fudge and fake almost everything, especially GTR/GTL. LFS has the better physics engine, but a few curves and ratios need tweaking to make it better. But at speeds above 25km/h I cannot notice anything wrong with the tyre physics, other than their refusal to regain grip quite quickly enough. Until you lose grip, I think LFS has a touch too much sometimes, especially with the road tyres.
But thats REAL LIFE. That is what we are trying to simulate. But it's not as easy as you make it sound to generate a perfect tyre model for every situation. As it is, LFS works at speed, but has limitations at low speed/full lock.
Where does it say full throttle in the original post? Besids, I still can in may car and on my bike...
That's what a simulation is - it's a con. How they choose to do it is irrelevant as long as the end result is convincing enough. I actually prefer the more organic feel of LFS but GTR is pretty damn good a lot of the time, and it's grip model is undoubtedly a lot more realistic.
Why is this? I never did understand it.
Hmmmm, I feel like I'mm talked to Greek Dude again... :P
A simulation attempts to model everything like real life, and is not purely concerned with the end result, but how you got there and the consequences.
GTR/GTL is not like this, and neither is rFactor in many many areas. They are ONLY converend with the end result, which makes them seem more convincing at the moment, but as soon as you ask them to do funny things the model breaks down.
I doubt GTR could simulate the elk test as well as LFS does (see recent thread).
A simulation attempts to model everything like real life, and is not purely concerned with the end result, but how you got there and the consequences.
GTR/GTL is not like this, and neither is rFactor in many many areas. They are ONLY converend with the end result, which makes them seem more convincing at the moment, but as soon as you ask them to do funny things the model breaks down.
I doubt GTR could simulate the elk test as well as LFS does (see recent thread).
I think what Tristan is trying to say is that instead of just simulating the results LFS attempts to simulate the process, the results then should be more dynamic and realistic.
This is not to say that a great feel can not be created by just "fudging" the result, sure it can. But can you see in LFS the possibilites once you have the process simulated and more or less accurate? You end up with a very interactive and changable model. This is perhaps what makes the evolution of LFS so exciting. It is also what gives the driving in LFS that dynamic connected feel. Everything basically effects everything else, as in real life.
This is a great ride we are on.
This is not to say that a great feel can not be created by just "fudging" the result, sure it can. But can you see in LFS the possibilites once you have the process simulated and more or less accurate? You end up with a very interactive and changable model. This is perhaps what makes the evolution of LFS so exciting. It is also what gives the driving in LFS that dynamic connected feel. Everything basically effects everything else, as in real life.
This is a great ride we are on.
Just remember guys, in a patch soon, the pysics are going to be updated/overhalled, so who cares what there like now (good) and focus on what they will be (great)
Yeah I understand and agree with the point Gunn. We don't know for sure but I'd imagine there was a fair amount of fudging that went on with the GPL model, for example, to get it to run as well as it did on those old PCs, and yet that still feels quite natural and fluid. Anyway, I agree with tristan and yourself, I was just being facetious.
Prove it.
Prove that it's not!
I see NO evidence in either game of any form of advanced modelling on par with LFS. Plus the games are all built on physics engines that have ben known to produce rubbish simulations.
I see NO evidence in either game of any form of advanced modelling on par with LFS. Plus the games are all built on physics engines that have ben known to produce rubbish simulations.
You must be kidding. Have you ever head something about "Ad Ignorantiam"? You can't invert the onus, dude. You say something, so you must prove it.
BTW, no evidence it's not a evidence of nothing.
[]´s
I really don't think it's a matter of throttle. I have excellent throttle control and am fully aware of what throttle should do in any given situation. LFS tire physics is off to some degree, although slight. I would be willing to bet that many are giving too much throttle, but not all... not me.
As far as low speeds being the problem, I'd say no. I've driven more than a few road going vehicles. I have yet to meet a single one that goes into terminal oversteer at neutral throttle, well below the limit, at the moment steering angle is applied. (Yes, I am also very aware of what I am doing with the wheel.) You can spin the LFS RWD with ridiculously low steering angle at turn in under neutral throttle at well over 100kph, or 200kph for that matter.
Notice that Bob's exquisite setups always enter the conversation. I suspect the lateral grip is off to some extent. It seems like straight line grip is very realistic but as soon as there is any lateral force the whole thing becomes something other than realistic. I've noticed that camber can be ridiculously high and the grip keeps climbing. I've never experimented with excessive camber in real life, but I would expect there has to be point of diminishing returns. I've also noticed that along with the excessive grip that comes with excessive camber is a loss of feel, or read, on what the tires are doing. So, you get tons of grip immediately, then when you go over you don't see it coming. My RWD sets all have lower cambers than the default sets. And front is very low in comparison. On the LX6 it's lower than the rear. I got some of my ideas from Bob. The cars act very realistically. Neutral throttle turn in oversteer is a thing of the past for me and I find that I am using my right foot more realistically throughout all turn phases. (With the default sets the right foot had no correlation to real life. Very disappointing.)
So, yes, there is certainly a problem with the tire physics, low or high speed. Yes, it can be tuned out with setup.
Why do I think it's a problem? Well, I've never purposefully set my rear camber 1/2 a degree lower in real life to see what it would do, but I've seen bigger numbers on my alignment charts from the mechanic and had no problem driving to the shop. I've also driven some *very* bent machinery, race and non race vehicles. Even they were more predictable than the stock LX6 in LFS.
At this point, when there is some grip problem that doesn't have an analogy to real life, I *tune* it out with seat time - learning how to apply steering, throttle, and brake in a manner that produces results in LFS even though it might not in real life. Fine. All sims are like that. But I think it points to a problem.
If I had a camera, I would film my Civic and show you...
Same two camps as always in these dicussions - the ones who say there is a problem with the physics and the ones who dont.
I'm gonna sit in the middle just so that there are 3 camps
I'm gonna sit in the middle just so that there are 3 camps
Please remove the soap from the hard tracks.
(119 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG