May I remind everyone on the term "return on invest"? "One or two hired people" need to be payed, from normal wage to various taxes and health care fees... That amounts to quite a sum - are you willing to pay for that? For a marginally faster development pace? The only way to get noticeably faster is to go a lot bigger - and then we are at iRacing money, with the exception that Scavier don't have generous donor who might even out potential losses...

Give it up guys, even if it were possible - which is very unlikely - the devs stated numerous times they won't change their ways, and you should accept that... After all, they didn't do that bad this last years, now did they?

Quote from TexasLTU :

3 developers and whole community who's job is to find the bugs that never be fixed

That said, LFS is so bug-free, it doesn't really matter. Sure, take the barriers for example. They're just foibles. Take those swings in GTA4 that blast you halfway across the map. It just adds to the character.

Quote from jrs_4500 :

''NFS HP2 is finished, LFS is not.''


LFS is going a bit slower than NFS though. :P

''Did you ever think that maybe LFS being detailed and realistic is fun? That's pretty much why all of us play it.''

Maybe the cars handle more realistically, but that's the only thing it has going for it.

LOL, that's pretty much everything I ever ask for in a racing game/simulator - realism

Although I have to agree that the graphics could be upgraded.

Of course LFS is aging, like a fine wine

I agree with your comments Jeff except I think your guess at 2010 or 2011 for S3 is way optimistic I would bet much closer to 2020 and if thats how long it takes, thats cool with me , I've more than had my 30 odd quids worth

IMO the thing with LFS development is, even tho its been some time since LFS was "new" the sim will always be "updated" maybe all these updates we've had are not everyones cup of tea, but theres no doubt LFS is a quality product, and maintained as such.

SD.

Quote from SparkyDave :

Of course LFS is aging, like a fine wine

I agree with your comments Jeff except I think your guess at 2010 or 2011 for S3 is way optimistic I would bet much closer to 2020 and if thats how long it takes, thats cool with me , I've more than had my 30 odd quids worth

IMO the thing with LFS development is, even tho its been some time since LFS was "new" the sim will always be "updated" maybe all these updates we've had are not everyones cup of tea, but theres no doubt LFS is a quality product, and maintained as such.

SD.

We are rather near beta stage, Scawen will propably realese 2 more patches I suppose... so year 2010 will be beta, then correcting some bugs... end of 2010, and S3 in 2012 in my opinion.

Edit. Sry for mistake :P, thx SparkyDave :P.

Yes but only S2 is in alpha

SD.

Quote from SparkyDave :

Of course LFS is aging, like a fine wine

I agree with your comments Jeff except I think your guess at 2010 or 2011 for S3 is way optimistic I would bet much closer to 2020 and if thats how long it takes, thats cool with me , I've more than had my 30 odd quids worth

IMO the thing with LFS development is, even tho its been some time since LFS was "new" the sim will always be "updated" maybe all these updates we've had are not everyones cup of tea, but theres no doubt LFS is a quality product, and maintained as such.

SD.

+1

Quote from bbman :

the devs stated numerous times they won't change their ways, and you should accept that... After all, they didn't do that bad this last years, now did they?

If, and I say if, LFS as a small enterprise has reached that bottleneck point where growth is impaired by the ineffectiveness of the underlying organization, there will come a time when the devs will have to choose between witnessing a constantly shrinking userbase that will eventually lead to the demise of the project, or change their organization in the way they always said they wouldn't.

Just to throw a wrench in the gears, there are at least a couple other options:

1. LFS will be sold to a third party
   
2. The current slow rate of S2 development is the result of them being working concurrently on S3
   

Quote from zeugnimod :

Quote from SparkyDave :

Of course LFS is aging, like a fine wine

I agree with your comments Jeff except I think your guess at 2010 or 2011 for S3 is way optimistic I would bet much closer to 2020 and if thats how long it takes, thats cool with me , I've more than had my 30 odd quids worth

IMO the thing with LFS development is, even tho its been some time since LFS was "new" the sim will always be "updated" maybe all these updates we've had are not everyones cup of tea, but theres no doubt LFS is a quality product, and maintained as such.

SD.

+1

+2

you cant compare NFS to LFS....

2 different catagories man... plus nfs is just a peaice of crap game that sells to all the 14 years olds that say "yeah broo im getting nfs man f$kin sick dude i herd it has drift now im gonna go turn sharp and make a skid ..coz we all know thats called a drift" ...nfs is gay RICE BUNER GAME!!

all you can do thats realistic is make your cars look realistic ..then when i comes to drifting it will probably lock you into corners and drift for you like it did on pro street .....just another "User friendly" kids game man

Quote from bbman :

The only way to get noticeably faster is to go a lot bigger - and then we are at iRacing money.

As I posted before, Synetic was able to realease a series of fairly large content racing games about every two years with a total staff of 8 people. That's no where near iRacing staffing or costs.

Quote from JeffR :

As I posted before, Synetic was able to realease a series of fairly large content racing games about every two years with a total staff of 8 people. That's no where near iRacing staffing or costs.

Is Synetic the producer of Cobra 11? I like this game so much It's very fun. I'm on their website now looking at their other games too, and downloading the Crash Time II demo.

You who made the topic, are you stupid or just being ironic?

You are like many others.
Comparing an action-arcade-racing game to a Racing simulator.
That is like a redneck would say "I know what an airplane is" (Redneck myself so I can flame myself!).
And graphics, sure if you want to play NFS with some "good graphics" when they have tried for added realism by putting dots in different colors here and there for better landscape, sure go ahead.
Just don't post this crap on the forum because as soon as someone compares LFS to NFS you KNOW you will get your ass flamed. You will soon start smelling barbeque.

Quote from Tim_J_23 :

Comparing an action-arcade-racing game to a Racing simulator. ... And graphics, sure if you want to play NFS with some "good graphics".

I don't think the point of the OP was about the graphics of NFS specifically, but how graphics of other games in general versus LFS have evolved in the last 5 1/2 years since July 2003 (release of S1), this would include other sim-oriented racing games.

Not to long ago i`ve found one game that could put LFS in the dust bin, if only it would be made for the Windows PC. Unfortunetly it`s only for the XBOX 360. I know it would cost 15 times the cost of LFS (both the 360 and the game) it`s worth it. 300 cars and a lot of tracks, including Nurburgring. Compared to LFS wich has 21 includinng VW`s SCIRROCO and 6 tracks with a couple variations each, i`t worth the extra money, considering some thing are beter than LFS, including damage, and particle system.
For those who are intrested the game is called Forza Motorsport 2. It also has tuning posibilities, and it can be used for drifting. For me it is beter than LFS. Further more Forza Motorsport 3 is due before 2010 and it`s expected to have minimum 400 cars and 100 diferent tracks.

Quote from TigerClw :

Not to long ago i`ve found one game that could put LFS in the dust bin, if only it would be made for the Windows PC. Unfortunetly it`s only for the XBOX 360. I know it would cost 15 times the cost of LFS (both the 360 and the game) it`s worth it. 300 cars and a lot of tracks, including Nurburgring. Compared to LFS wich has 21 includinng VW`s SCIRROCO and 6 tracks with a couple variations each, i`t worth the extra money, considering some thing are beter than LFS, including damage, and particle system.
For those who are intrested the game is called Forza Motorsport 2. It also has tuning posibilities, and it can be used for drifting. For me it is beter than LFS. Further more Forza Motorsport 3 is due before 2010 and it`s expected to have minimum 400 cars and 100 diferent tracks.

it has 300 cars that don´t have good physics good as lfs.... and you didn´t even test lfs completely... you have tested maybe 4 cars and 5 track combinations....

Forza 2 physics were pretty good. Good feeling of weight and stuff.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Forza 2 physics were pretty good. Good feeling of weight and stuff.

its only for xbox 360

Yeah, but with most people who have a 360 - that have XBL so it's pretty good for multiplayer stuff.

i think lfs has pretty perfect physics. not much can compare. A little spruce up of the graphics would be nice. but i'd say more options/car/tracks would be more important at this point. I WANTZ THA RALLY CARZ!!

Look, LFS does have the best physics of any game out there. When I go for a spirited drive in my real car then in lfs, they feel very similar just without the g forces. I have tried r factor, i racing, net kar, GTR evo, M3 challenge... none of them feel quite right when compairing them to a real car.

How the devs managed to make such a good physics engine is beyond me, epically because its 5 years old. Even the newest sims like i racing and netkar are only barley better, and they only have full blown race cars. LFS simply holds the best physics for street cars out there.

I simply think if the devs could hire 2 more people, the game would be so much better. Is it just me, or in the last couple years has the game seemed to be at a stand still? Its been the same cars and the same tracks with just minor updates. Now at least with this next patch well have a new car and ABS, thats if the patch ever comes out. Not to mention I dont know why everyone is getting so excited about a FWD hatchback, its well down the list of dream cars id put in my dream racing game.

Or, the DEVS could be willing to accept help. Im sure there are a few programmers out there that would be willing to donate some of their time to help LFS. With a simple screening process they could find a few people with good talent, and maybe they could get more stuff done without having to spend the money of hiring people.

Imagine the physics of LFS, the car and track selection of grand trusimo and forza, and the visuals of i racing, netkar, and some of the newest racing games. Why cant anyone out there make a game like this?

It would sure be a game I would happily pay for.

You got some great points there, and personally I would love the devs to be more open for suggestions. We have a lot of people that wants to help out, and both have time and skills to do this. They don't ask for money or anything, but simply wants to help. Why this is so much a no-go from the devs is beyound me. Sure, we can discuss "who to trust" and blabla, but when there are so much people with the skills they got, why not utilize them to help improving the simulator? It would affect possitively on the sale of LFS too, with new stuff and such, and it wouldn't cost because it was a voulnteer thing.

A point that is worth taking into consideration is the lisence rules, for both cars and tracks. Even if they can, and want, the devs simply canot just make a car or track in game. They have to sort out a lot of papir work, and get allowance to use that car/track in game, by the respective "owner" . But I am fine with fantasy tracks and cars, the only thing that bugs me is that the progress is too slow, and the devs simply "because we like it to do it the own way" attitute , aswell not wanting any help from the people offering themself

Don't misunderstand me, I have been here long enough to keep hugging the forum and servers every now and then, but I really WISH Lfs the best, I want it to grow, and shine as it should do, and deserves. But before that happens some things need to be fixed, and new stuff must be added to attract new people to the game. Minor changes are good, but sometimes we need something new, drastical new, not a update on Blackwood, a new layout on SO, or cars, by drastically I mean new enviroments / tracks, and completely new cars. Not a new formula car or ordinary tin box, something fresh.

Just my two cents.

Quote from Monkay :

I WANTZ THA RALLY CARZ!!

Same, 350-450bhp AWD rallycar would be nice

I would love to see the devs finish that rally pack they talked about earlier. Probally it was about rallycross, but that's great, since I love rallycross. There is also a logout screen in LFS that hints to a subaru, so they had something coming, thats for sure. But due to various reasons it got scraped... but I have a dream that they are still working on it in secret and one day will surprise us.
But as time passes on, that dream seems to just be.. a dream

Rallycross with propper tuned cars and more rallycross tracks would be like christmas for me! I have waited and wished it for so long, and with the announchment of the rallypack that dream really got fired up, but again, got scrapped.

I am not going to sound like a crying kid who did not get his ice cream, I just wish that the devs could be a little more pressisly of what they actually working on. Ok, we do know they work on the new car, but what do they mean with "other stuff" , "things not yet mentioned" ? That way of hiding development worked for 4 years, but now it's time to give us some solid facts, proofs, screenshoot or whatever, give us something! A teaser or whatever, anything would be great. Oh man, a screenshoot of for example a new track, even just 1, would keep me hugging the forum and game for update info the next years to come!

Baaaaah, I want I want I want I want some info

I bleaive we could make due with just fantasy cars, if the devs were to open the game up to voluinteers, we could even have a modeling compition.

The way I see it LFS needs:

A true rally course

A on road or off road hill climb with narrow roads!

A fwd rwd and awd rally car

a nsx like car

a lambo 4wd mid engine like car

a miata like car

a ferrari like car, a brutially fast grand tourer to say

some "club racer" type of variants of these cars, like what someone would build out of their garage. The game now just has street cars and full on race cars, nothing in between.

An LX8

Something for the drag crowd and vintage racing crowd, maybe an 69; mustang lke car and a 69' chevelle like car. With the ability to swap on drag tires or road racing tires.

A proper automatic trans.

A proper drag system that allows warming the tires and staging.

A true OVAL with a nascar like car

and of course atleast double the tracks. I bleaive the city track could have been done better with a longer route. We also need a nurbering (spelling) type track.

Up to date graphics and damage modeling. A rally race with good damage modeling would be amazing.



This is part of the reason im mad about the siccaro, we already have a fwd hatch!

Also, I just want to say LFS was cheap to buy. Im not saying Im not getting my moneys worth. Its just that this game has the potential to take sim racing to a whole nother level... I want it to do that!



Oh, one more thing. Take the current force feedback and mix it with i racing's and add the track bump modeling from i racing as well.

p.s.s the tire temp system needs improvement, they get too hot too quick most of the time. THe ability to flat spot would be slick as well.