Ok, they are better, I grant you that, but maybe a few more releases and it'll be fixed. I just drifted the BF1 on the Race 2 or whatever the setup below default on Blackwood GP at the turn at the end of the straight. I drifted it all the way around the corner. Now either the physics are still really messed up or I need to schedule a tryout with BMW's F1 team.

And please don't be foolish and say its the setup, any >2000lb 700+hp open wheel car on racing slicks would realistically be almost impossible to drift even for a professional driver.

Its a step in the right direction, but seriously, why not ask Kunos what he does to get it right?

seems like a stupidly inflammatory post, but I agree that I was hoping for more out of the bf1. The tyres still exhibit the characteristic lfs float without bite, though there is definately 'more' bite now.

Actually the first bit of inflaming comments was when you said "stupidly", Congrats hypocrite.

Dunno, haven't tried the BF1 yet, but all my sets understeer to hell now, so easy to drift cars now. Almost too easy. Maybe some really loose sets will make things more entertaining again.

I don't think there have been much fundamental changes made. The biggest one is that the tyres are a big more grippy in longitudinal direction and a bit less in lateral. This means that it takes a bit more 'right foot' or wildness before..... the same old happens. Big scary "BMW would never allow any of their road cars in LFS" style. And while it might be slightly less quickly oversteering away from you on regular turn in / exit, a quick slalom type course shows that you have a lot of rear end catching to do, roughly the same problem that plagues LFS since S1. It seems that you can't tweak something that is flawed somewhere and make it better.

I really like that they got a real F1 car in there, lets hope it'll boost license sales as the devs deserve that.

If nothing changes in the (considerable) brain of Scawen, then I don't think LFS will have really good tyres (or whatever is wrong now) even with S3.

Then again, if this boosts sales, lets hope Scawen does a Kaemmer and does some race schools in a variety of cars, with aim of comparing it to the sim. Perhaps Michelin can be tricked into more than supplying their name.. The future is still bright, but I don't have my shades handy as the chance I need em is slim..

You think a drift is impossible in an F1 car? Blah... Let Kimi demonstrate for you sir: www.kolumbus.fi/akiaki/kimi.avi


That is about a 160mph turn at Spa..... I think you can save your trip to BMW

OK but show me a video where F1 car have a big drift under braking and dont lose any time. Its possible to drift going into T1 in BF under braking and drift throught the corner and dont lose time

I have to agree with Niels. The "new" tire physics feels like the same physics only with tweaked values. Its not bad but I really hoped that it will improve much more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHj9feF6lCw&search=piquet

piquet drifting around senna... its possible.

If its easy to drift BF1, i'll give you reason

double post

I don't see how people think it is only a minor step. Old version had grip levels BEYOND realism (could pull G's higher than actual cars could), PLUS the lateral grip was terrible causing people to slide out a lot. Combine those two, and you had a crappy tire code.

Right now, it feels very equal, and very nice to me. Low-speed grip is still somewhat of an issue, but not as bad. I think this is a good step forward, and if you went and drove the old P/Q version right now, you'd see how much better it is.

And the fact that the BF1 can drift in some corners doesn't mean everything is completely "FUBAR", F1 drivers do some long slides all the time at high speeds. But whatever, the game can only get better, and so far this is a good step forward.

Quote from Tweaker :

You think a drift is impossible in an F1 car? Blah... Let Kimi demonstrate for you sir: www.kolumbus.fi/akiaki/kimi.avi


That is about a 160mph turn at Spa..... I think you can save your trip to BMW

Oh sweet Jesus, did you read my Post??? Apparently you're saying that I have as much talent as a professional F1 driver?

I guess I'll take that as a compliment.

Quote from Dethred :

any >2000lb 700+hp open wheel car on racing slicks would realistically be almost impossible to drift even for a professional driver.

Well I read that, and it clearly states that you think it is almost impossible for a professional driver to drift an F1 car. When there are occurances of this all the time.

Still I know what you mean, the car will want to do slides that aren't even 'drifts', they are just long burnouts at a not-so-extreme angle. The downforce and stuff seems to be the reason why imo.

IMO, the improvements are absolutely massive. I feel even more in touch with the way the cars are handling, and I don't find myself thinking "WTF?" with the vehicles' behaviour.

I also think that unless you ARE an F1 driver, and have personal first-hand experience of how one might handle, with the same setup as you have in your LFS sim, you can NOT BEGIN to determine what is and what is NOT realistic simulation in LFS, particularly and specifically within 4 hours of your first opportunity to try it.

I believe that the BMW/Sauber have had a significant input into the handling of the F1 in LFS. I also believe that BMW/Sauber have been keen to help achieve an unprecedented level of realism in LFS. I think it's more realistic than your preconcieved notions permit YOU to believe. The shortfall is, I think, yours.

Quote from Mlod :

Its possible to drift going into T1 in BF under braking and drift throught the corner and dont lose time

Lol, if you're doing that in lfs and not losing time, then you're not going fast enough in the first place

F1 cars can drift all you want, they don't because its risky and slow.

Not had enough miles to form a true opinion, but I've just given the LX4 a go round Aston North, and the changes seem to be very significant indeed. It feels planted like never before, not on rails, but like there's a finer line between grip and slip. It also feels slightly underpowered now! Which I suppose it really should, and yet it's still a lot of fun. Requires small adjustments as you teeter on the limit of grip but the right pedal alone isn't enough to boot the tail out anymore, in most situations.

So far, I likes.

Quote from SamH :

IMO, the improvements are absolutely massive. I feel even more in touch with the way the cars are handling, and I don't find myself thinking "WTF?" with the vehicles' behaviour.

I also think that unless you ARE an F1 driver, and have personal first-hand experience of how one might handle, with the same setup as you have in your LFS sim, you can NOT BEGIN to determine what is and what is NOT realistic simulation in LFS, particularly and specifically within 4 hours of your first opportunity to try it.

I believe that the BMW/Sauber have had a significant input into the handling of the F1 in LFS. I also believe that BMW/Sauber have been keen to help achieve an unprecedented level of realism in LFS. I think it's more realistic than your preconcieved notions permit YOU to believe. The shortfall is, I think, yours.

You're right, F1 is easy, so easy I can drift an F1 car. Please take your argument, or lack thereof, somewhere else. This thread is for intelligent criticism.

For the record, where has it been established that any F1 driver has given the physics a thumbs up? eh? So basically you're saying that the the players and the devs, having not driven an F1 car, have no idea what is right or wrong. So you're saying the physics still aren't correct then, right?

Netkar, for instance, is extremely difficult to drive some of their cars on the limit, as difficult as driving a real car on the limit. No slow slides and slow losses of grip.

Again, this is a step in the right direction, I was simply expecting more. It seems each attempt at updating the physics goes like this:

1.) Devs claim seriously upgraded physics
2.) Players claim they are perfect
3.) Players begin realizing they are not.
4.) Devs release a new patch with upgraded physics
5.) Players say they are perfect.
6.) Players slowly realize problems with the physics
7.) Devs work on it further. etc.

I have seen this cycle happen 3-4 separate times since the early demo days.

Forgot to add:

8.) The usual person that comes in the forum to complain about the physics after only a few hours of testing the game, thus not giving a complete look at the game, or thinking of possible reasons.

I mean, just because you did some long drift in the BF1, wow, omg, lets go post that it is the tires that is incorrect!!!! That's it!! Come on now, as much as it may seem wrong to you, back some of the things up, or think what else could be at fault here. You say you don't want us to say it is your set, but look at reasons why the car is quite easy to drift. For one, the TC on this car is godly, controls JUST the right amount of throttle when in a slide, and you can hold it quite easily. For all I care, it could be the TC that is wrong, or too invicible so to speak. It feels like the old Keyboard S1 days, where a keyboarder could hold super long drifts with no effort.

I am just more inclined that it is the computer aids taking part in this. Try drifting with no TC, not very easy, and it is just a power-slide that is hardly controllable.

Quote from Tweaker :

Forgot to add:

8.) The usual person that comes in the forum to complain about the physics after only a few hours of testing the game, thus not giving a complete look at the game, or thinking of possible reasons.

I mean, just because you did some long drift in the BF1, wow, omg, lets go post that it is the tires that is incorrect!!!! That's it!! Come on now, as much as it may seem wrong to you, back some of the things up, or think what else could be at fault here. You say you don't want us to say it is your set, but look at reasons why the car is quite easy to drift. For one, the TC on this car is godly, controls JUST the right amount of throttle when in a slide, and you can hold it quite easily. For all I care, it could be the TC that is wrong, or too invicible so to speak. It feels like the old Keyboard S1 days, where a keyboarder could hold super long drifts with no effort.

I am just more inclined that it is the computer aids taking part in this. Try drifting with no TC, not very easy, and it is just a power-slide that is hardly controllable.

The other cars feel similar to the last patch. Yes they hold grip a lot better but the manner in which they lose control is nothing like real life. There is no sense of urgency and its still relatively easy to gain control. In real life the average driver losing control from going around a turn will not be able to gain control, and if they do it will be sloppy. There just seems to be no sudden panic from the back end stepping out. Maybe its the force feedback not slacking up when the wheels slip or something. All I know is Netkar is still the closest in getting that real sense of being on the edge and a sense of "oh CRAP" when you push it too far.

Quote from Dethred :

Ok, they are better, I grant you that, but maybe a few more releases and it'll be fixed. why not ask Kunos what he does to get it right?

does jack nicholson ask britney how to act?

Quote from sinbad :

Not had enough miles to form a true opinion, but I've just given the LX4 a go round Aston North, and the changes seem to be very significant indeed. It feels planted like never before, not on rails, but like there's a finer line between grip and slip. It also feels slightly underpowered now! Which I suppose it really should, and yet it's still a lot of fun. Requires small adjustments as you teeter on the limit of grip but the right pedal alone isn't enough to boot the tail out anymore, in most situations.

So far, I likes.

try the lx4 on long rev. a blast

Quote from Dethred :

I have seen this cycle happen 3-4 separate times since the early demo days.

shame you are too thick to understand why people rejoice at steps given in the right direction towards reality, and also fail miserabily to aknowledge that something that is still being developed with further complexity, stage after stage patch after patch, halfway through the climb to the S3 final pinnacle, cannot be criticized for what it is simply as if it was a final product, but especially for where its going, since this is after all, just a WIP (work in progress release) and dats how they fund their developement, giving us all transparent enjoyment and a word in its dev.

even so, and even being in halfway done state, lfs already is the best sim overall for me (only a few areas where n2003 is still better). so if incomplete its like this, i can only hope for some real kickass shit in the end.

Fine, go play your nKp** the professional online racing simulation with superduper online gameplay and super physics as promised if you really dont enjoy LFS. Cya

If someone says that some area of sim is not yet quite realistic, it does not mean that he dislikes from it.

Realism and good gameplay are two completely separate things. Also if car feels fun to drive it has nothing to do with realism, but giving constructive critic is not meaning that product is bad also it does not mean that person dislikes from it.

You need to understand that it is not black and white world, fanboys here think that if someone say that there is further developing for example in tires that anyone who say it is whiner and not liking lfs, but you know it is not that way, I like a lot from lfs still I say that tire physics have not addressed biggest issue yet, also I feel that tires are now more arcade feeling, but it does not mean that I don't like lfs.

It is old fashioned and simple (you may add childish here) way to think that one should either hate it or love it without any other opinion, I think that there was some country that did try to make everyone to think only one way, however guess what happened

Got the patch, drove a new PB on Kyoto GP / XRR, struggled at Blackwood in the XRT. Summary, race car behaves more like a race car, road car more like a road car, great.

well i think the update is awsome and good progress!

I cant reli critisise it in anyway becuz im too young to drive, but from the basis of how fun it is to play and race with others, its a good update!