People that only live with the future in mind will unknowingly end up in the past.
People that only live with the future in mind will unknowingly end up in the past.
I'd rather spend 1/5 the time we actually spent (a term, about 8 weeks) events of the past, and use the extra 4/5 to learn about things of tommorow.
I genuinely don't get why events of the past dictate what we must learn today. Even if someone like a new-age Hitler WAS to come about, he'd be cast out, hung, dried and quartered before he'd even finished his opening speech.
We live in a fairly civilized society, something that 65 years ago, didn't exist.
Besides, what good will knowing about the Holocaust, for example (any old event can help here), your house is being flooded because of rising water levels?
S14_DRIFT: It's called general knowledge.
Plus it's interesting.
It's the same like everyone is laughing about a youtube video when some americans cant answer questions about other countries.
Why should they know about other countries when they live happily in the US?
It's acutally quite the same thing ^^ But I don't know if you are one of those who bashed on them for that video, hehe.
But general knowledge of what happened during WWII is quite good but not knowing who everyone in the army was etc.
Plus it's interesting.
It's the same like everyone is laughing about a youtube video when some americans cant answer questions about other countries.
Why should they know about other countries when they live happily in the US?
It's acutally quite the same thing ^^ But I don't know if you are one of those who bashed on them for that video, hehe.
But general knowledge of what happened during WWII is quite good but not knowing who everyone in the army was etc.
Why do you think that is?
Perhaps its because we have learned from our mistakes and wrong-doing in the past and have become more civilised as a result.
It seems to me that you are somehow disconnected from reality.
Have you ever tried to learn from a mistake and been able to make use of that knowledge later on? In other words, if you dont know that you've done something wrong, then how would you want to prevent yourself from doing the same mistake again? That can be applied on a society as well.
"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future." - George Orwell
I usually avoid rants, but after spending the whole evening engaging in a controlled form of physical violence, I feel the urge to verbally unleash myself. 
Civilised society didn't exist 65 years ago? Germany was actually a very sophisticated country, socially-speaking, back in the days when Hitler was building up his political career.
You forget that events like the Holocaust have happened before. Ethnic slaughter was nothing new 65 years ago. Oddly enough, no-one really seems to have learned the lesson because it continues even today. Not so long ago, the former Yugoslavia was going through a period of ethnic cleansing. Neo-Nazi skinheads at football matches are testament to the fact that the principles which drove the Nazis to industrially kill millions of Jews are still very much alive, prowling in dark places to warp mushy teenage and adolescent minds whose only concern is "tomorrow", the next release of their favourite gaming console, and the playlist on their friend's iPod.
Rising water levels? Let's talk environment then...
Have you heard of Mount Vesuvius? Perhaps your history class might have featured it, or perhaps not. In any case, it's a volcano in Naples, Italy. In AD79, it erupted and literally buried the cities of Pompeii and Herculaneum. Archeological studies of Pompeii and Herculaneum during the period of the mountain's eruption has provided enormous information to modern volcanologists about the character of eruptions and behaviour of pyroclastic gases, helping to better prepare emergency services about dealing with volcanic eruptions near populated areas.
There's one small example of how history has helped the modern world, and in an environmental sense at that.
By studying the dynamics of populations and urban developments in the past, modern sociologists, civil engineers, and environmental planners have information that helps them to build better cities in the future, how to better manage human waste, and if water levels should rise to catastrophic levels, how the human population will have to adapt and change in order to survive. This knowledge doesn't come from thin air, but from years of research about human society and our interactions with our living world throughout recorded history.
Never underestimate the importance of history.
Interesting comment.
If I recall correctly, you're in your late-teens, right? Well, I used to think the same way as you. Until I got a job with real responsibilities.
Perhaps one day in the future, you will be in a position where you must hire, fire, lead, and manage people to get things done. Some of those "things" can be quite difficult and very challenging, jobs that not everyone can do. In fact, I should rephrase that... they're jobs that anyone COULD do, but turns out they can't because they don't have the mental skills to think outside the box, to extrapolate existing knowledge to solve novel problems, and to adapt one's mind to changing circumstances. In my experience, the people who have those skills and are therefore deserving of better jobs and pay, are usually (about 80% of the time) the ones who slogged through the "useless" stuff at school. Because the "useless" stuff had somehow expanded their mental ability to the point where they end up as far superior workers and leaders than those who just gave up and doodled in their diaries. Those people who had the self-discipline to keep awake and actually learn the "useless" stuff are strangely also the ones who work harder, smarter, faster, and even teach themselves how to do new work or solve new problems without supervision. At the end of the day, guess who gets the promotion and better pay?
Schools have three roles:
1. Teach students skills to make them employable.
2. Teach students skills to enable further learning.
3. Teach students to become positive contributors to society.
I have to admit that schools fail miserably in roles 1 and 3, but still do a pretty good job of role 2. What might seem "useless" on the outside, isn't really useless.
Civilised society didn't exist 65 years ago? Germany was actually a very sophisticated country, socially-speaking, back in the days when Hitler was building up his political career.
You forget that events like the Holocaust have happened before. Ethnic slaughter was nothing new 65 years ago. Oddly enough, no-one really seems to have learned the lesson because it continues even today. Not so long ago, the former Yugoslavia was going through a period of ethnic cleansing. Neo-Nazi skinheads at football matches are testament to the fact that the principles which drove the Nazis to industrially kill millions of Jews are still very much alive, prowling in dark places to warp mushy teenage and adolescent minds whose only concern is "tomorrow", the next release of their favourite gaming console, and the playlist on their friend's iPod.
Rising water levels? Let's talk environment then...
Have you heard of Mount Vesuvius? Perhaps your history class might have featured it, or perhaps not. In any case, it's a volcano in Naples, Italy. In AD79, it erupted and literally buried the cities of Pompeii and Herculaneum. Archeological studies of Pompeii and Herculaneum during the period of the mountain's eruption has provided enormous information to modern volcanologists about the character of eruptions and behaviour of pyroclastic gases, helping to better prepare emergency services about dealing with volcanic eruptions near populated areas.
There's one small example of how history has helped the modern world, and in an environmental sense at that.
By studying the dynamics of populations and urban developments in the past, modern sociologists, civil engineers, and environmental planners have information that helps them to build better cities in the future, how to better manage human waste, and if water levels should rise to catastrophic levels, how the human population will have to adapt and change in order to survive. This knowledge doesn't come from thin air, but from years of research about human society and our interactions with our living world throughout recorded history.
Never underestimate the importance of history.
Interesting comment.
If I recall correctly, you're in your late-teens, right? Well, I used to think the same way as you. Until I got a job with real responsibilities.
Perhaps one day in the future, you will be in a position where you must hire, fire, lead, and manage people to get things done. Some of those "things" can be quite difficult and very challenging, jobs that not everyone can do. In fact, I should rephrase that... they're jobs that anyone COULD do, but turns out they can't because they don't have the mental skills to think outside the box, to extrapolate existing knowledge to solve novel problems, and to adapt one's mind to changing circumstances. In my experience, the people who have those skills and are therefore deserving of better jobs and pay, are usually (about 80% of the time) the ones who slogged through the "useless" stuff at school. Because the "useless" stuff had somehow expanded their mental ability to the point where they end up as far superior workers and leaders than those who just gave up and doodled in their diaries. Those people who had the self-discipline to keep awake and actually learn the "useless" stuff are strangely also the ones who work harder, smarter, faster, and even teach themselves how to do new work or solve new problems without supervision. At the end of the day, guess who gets the promotion and better pay?
Schools have three roles:
1. Teach students skills to make them employable.
2. Teach students skills to enable further learning.
3. Teach students to become positive contributors to society.
I have to admit that schools fail miserably in roles 1 and 3, but still do a pretty good job of role 2. What might seem "useless" on the outside, isn't really useless.
I found the comment that "Maths" are useless stuff highly Stupid... I guess you like cars a lot? Guess what, cars didn't come in a fancy little pack saying "No need of ecuations!, brain safe stuff!". Everything needs a bit of maths, even toilet paper.
And about history, well, imo I don't wanna be an isolated human beign that doesn't know a thing about how the wolrd became what it is today, I know history is boring but I preffer to be a dude with knowledge than just an empty piece of brain walking down the street.
This is only my opinion.
And about history, well, imo I don't wanna be an isolated human beign that doesn't know a thing about how the wolrd became what it is today, I know history is boring but I preffer to be a dude with knowledge than just an empty piece of brain walking down the street.
This is only my opinion.
History regularly repeates itself, we learn nothing from history because the human ego takes over and we say "well we're better equipped, better prepared and better informed than they were. That won't happen to us."
There is no place for history in schools because students do not want to learn and as far as surveys go, most will put down stupid answers for fun (hell I used to do it). People who make important choices should pay attention to history, but rarely do.
Well, since I'm in a BAAAAAD mood, I'm not going to debate every single point.
But I do say in general I do understand what you're all saying -
I would like to think I'm pretty mature in my attitude, at least in real life. I've been through alot of shit (not blowing my own trumpet) and have done school and lots of hard work, in a few different jobs.
I do understand how history shapes the future, up to a point. Generally you learn by your mistakes -
And I'm not saying that it SHOULDN'T be taught, but it's placed above things such as mechanical skills and engineering which are more important skills to have in todays world. Electrician, plumber, etc etc.
Most places require nothing more than a good attitude and the will to learn, at least places where younger people would be working. What good is Alegbra if you're working in the motortrade, in the mechanical sector, etc etc?
2) How does one "teach people how to learn". After all, isn't that instinctive, to learn new things.
And it's all relevance. 90% of the things you learn at school are only learnt so you pass the test. Even genius mathematicians use calculators and stuff!
But I do say in general I do understand what you're all saying -
I would like to think I'm pretty mature in my attitude, at least in real life. I've been through alot of shit (not blowing my own trumpet) and have done school and lots of hard work, in a few different jobs.
I do understand how history shapes the future, up to a point. Generally you learn by your mistakes -
And I'm not saying that it SHOULDN'T be taught, but it's placed above things such as mechanical skills and engineering which are more important skills to have in todays world. Electrician, plumber, etc etc.
Most places require nothing more than a good attitude and the will to learn, at least places where younger people would be working. What good is Alegbra if you're working in the motortrade, in the mechanical sector, etc etc?
2) How does one "teach people how to learn". After all, isn't that instinctive, to learn new things.
And it's all relevance. 90% of the things you learn at school are only learnt so you pass the test. Even genius mathematicians use calculators and stuff!
Well racism is becoming increasingly unpopular it seems, although it is still there, not many people I know are openly racist.
So most of us must have learned something.
Sig materialI would say I agree, but racism is still very strong, just it is ignored unless it is aimed towards coloured people. There is stupid amounts of racism towards White people, it is just ignored, there is a lot of sexism towards males that is ignored, history is repeating itself but on the other shoe in those regards.
But a lot of operational mistakes from history are being repeated, time and time again, which is why we are in the second recession of my life time. The reasons for it are clear if you look through history, but those reasons are consistently being ignored in the pursuit of profit.
What? All engineering problems have been expressed mathematically for the last couple of centuries, there is no point in teaching engineering principles until you can use them with maths.
Yes because home schooling is going to produce a generation who are able to integrate brilliantly...
In the last 65 years we've gone through a cold war that looks like it is going to rear its ugly head again and currently the largest superpower in the world is going unopposed invading countries and effectively waging war against people of a certain religious faith and at the same time using it as an excuse to bring in restrictive legislation. Even in this country there is a real danger of a party that has no shortage of alarmingly direct links to Nazi Germany ideology getting into power.
Then there's the still very real issue of nuclear weapons, which weren't in the world 65 years ago. The world is far from civilised and the odds are far higher than ever before, learning from past mistakes is essential.
Unless you wish to work as a parts replacer (which does not make you an engineer) maths and physics will be absolutely essential even for simple things like working out sizes and areas of components. Equally building, electrical work and plumbing all require extensive use of maths and physics if you don't want buildings that fall down, burnt out electrics or pipes that don't flow properly. Someone has to do it and its far better to work for yourself or get others to work for you than to be the uninteligent labourer at the bottom of the pile.
I'm not sure if y'all get my point. I know that Engineering, mechanical skills and the like require some basic formulae, being taught how to do them 6 different ways is not good use of time. What's more, everyone has access to a calculator so if they need to do 3473985494 tons / 343^3/2 (xy4) then they can simply use one of those.
Most Engineering (the manufacture and building, not the actual designing) is done with CNC milling machines that require nothing more than the ability to read a piece of paper with the design, then input these things into a computer which does all the work for them, or put the bits together.
When I say "electriction", I mean Dave the guy that wires up houses. When I say mechanic, I mean Rodney down at the Ford dealer, when I say Engineering, I mean millers rather than actual "engineers" (stop watching Discovery channel :rofl
Even though being an electriction doesn't use any real mathematical skill, other to count the amount of amps and how much of that wire he needs...
When I was refering to "civilised" society, I mean where blacks weren't actively being racially profiled (yes, I know it still happens, I'm into my black history ty), I mean where people like Hitler (someone like him would end up dead in a matter of a week if they showed up today) don't exist, where the black man can sit where he wants on the bus ('cause someone stole his bike, obviously
). Of course there's still racism, which, frankly, is only natural. Even white people are subject to racist attacks. Everything at the moment is fairly status-quo. The majority of whites and blacks get along well, even the Mexicans are happy. So what's to not like?
Hiroshima& Nagasaki happened in 1945. There was nuclear bombs back then.
IIRC these were the only two nuclear bombings that were used against other people (i.e in warfare). Thankfully nothing's really come close to happening since then.
Although these 'unintelligent labourers' are the ones that put everything together.
I'm just saying that the education system that I experienced at school didn't work for me (and I think alot of people that want to do practical things). Your GCSE's are only valid for 3 years, and after that they're not worth the paper they're written on. Why bother? So the government is happy.... everything you learn in school is a blanket of learning that just happens to correspond with EXACTLY what they're testing you on.. funny that! How about problem solving. Thinking around a problem that you don't know how to get around? Where's the test for that - That happens more often than the need to use algebra.
Most Engineering (the manufacture and building, not the actual designing) is done with CNC milling machines that require nothing more than the ability to read a piece of paper with the design, then input these things into a computer which does all the work for them, or put the bits together.
When I say "electriction", I mean Dave the guy that wires up houses. When I say mechanic, I mean Rodney down at the Ford dealer, when I say Engineering, I mean millers rather than actual "engineers" (stop watching Discovery channel :rofl
Even though being an electriction doesn't use any real mathematical skill, other to count the amount of amps and how much of that wire he needs...
When I was refering to "civilised" society, I mean where blacks weren't actively being racially profiled (yes, I know it still happens, I'm into my black history ty), I mean where people like Hitler (someone like him would end up dead in a matter of a week if they showed up today) don't exist, where the black man can sit where he wants on the bus ('cause someone stole his bike, obviously
). Of course there's still racism, which, frankly, is only natural. Even white people are subject to racist attacks. Everything at the moment is fairly status-quo. The majority of whites and blacks get along well, even the Mexicans are happy. So what's to not like? Hiroshima& Nagasaki happened in 1945. There was nuclear bombs back then.
IIRC these were the only two nuclear bombings that were used against other people (i.e in warfare). Thankfully nothing's really come close to happening since then.
Although these 'unintelligent labourers' are the ones that put everything together.
I'm just saying that the education system that I experienced at school didn't work for me (and I think alot of people that want to do practical things). Your GCSE's are only valid for 3 years, and after that they're not worth the paper they're written on. Why bother? So the government is happy.... everything you learn in school is a blanket of learning that just happens to correspond with EXACTLY what they're testing you on.. funny that! How about problem solving. Thinking around a problem that you don't know how to get around? Where's the test for that - That happens more often than the need to use algebra.
You really don't get it do you? Understanding and using maths is more than simply typing things into a calculator, if you hadn't been taught basic maths you would be unable to even use a calculator, if you want to get a computer package to do useful engineering calculations you need an understanding of trigonometry, calculus and the other basic mathematical principles you're going to use. People who don't understand what they're doing make rubbish unmotivated employees. If someone doesn't have to hold your hand and be paid for supervising you and giving step by step instructions on how to walk then you're going to be far more productive and satisfied with your job.
My point exactly evidently maths is a bit beyond you (2009-1945 = 64).
It's worse than that, they tend to do quite big and dramatic mistakes, even in response to small changes in their inputs. Besides if you don't know what the machine is supposed to tell you, you lose the ability to do basic correctness checks.
+1Day by day (and post by post in some situations) Idiocracy resembles a prophecy more and more.
Basic school is meant to provide you with basic understanding, theories and knowledge to go study more and focus on something you like and make a job from it. You narrow the studies down later and then specialise.
It's also meant for learning how to study, some people might not realise that learning isn't just reading and repeating what you read. It's about understanding what you read. I remember people at school who had read the material for a test four times, but still hardly passed the test. It can be hard process, I like to say I learned to read properly three years ago.
Another thing people don't often get is that they are supposed to learn and study for themselves, not for the teacher or your parents or to pass the test. This is of course hard if you don't have the will or motivation, but this might be the reason you don't have it as you are doing it for someone else. Sometimes you need to be an egoistic bastard for your own good.
Well, and using a calculator and knowing what to use it for are two completely different things. Having a calculator doesn't make you an engineer, like knowing how to measure heartbeat doesn't make you a doctor.
And you don't get it either.
I'm saying that some of the "advanced" stuff, not the bloody basics. If you want to program said computer to do calculatons, yes. But the end user doesn't need a mathematical degree just to use it. Like do I need a degree in computing to use 3D studio Max or whatever? Do I need to be able to code HTML to use the internet? The same as do I need to know, explicitly, the goings on with something that I have a computer/calculator, etc to do it for me? Chances are not.
And well, alot of employers would rather train an employee to do things their way, and most people who don't understand are very keen to learn.
Ohnoes 1 year, picky much? That was an attack. The attack took place in 1945... They were being developed, tested and build looong before then. My point is valid.
Oh dear, back to the point if people are going to make their own decisions whilst working in say automotive engineering they will need at the very least to be confident working out areas and lengths ideally mentally. You can probably make a reasonable mental estimate already of the circumference of a circle or work out the internal dimension of a piece of box section of known thickness and internal dimension. If you can't do that quickly without fuss or consulting someone cleverer (or a calculator) then you don't have much chance of working efficiently. Chances are you already can because of that pointless school you sat through.
Someone also has to be able to understand and estimate stress calculations, otherwise how do you know what size materials to use, just guess? If you're able to do it yourself you'd have a huge advantage, most employers can probably teach you that stress = F/A but they do not have time to teach you the maths to deal with it.
History would have taught you that the first and only test prior to Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened in July 1945 so you're still wrong
If this beer comes anywhere near holland it wil be banned becaus of its name.
We had some type of choclate snakc called ****** kisses(properly translated)
and becaus bpeopelcomplaind about the racist name LOL!! it would need to change the name or it would be bannned haha!!
We had some type of choclate snakc called ****** kisses(properly translated)
and becaus bpeopelcomplaind about the racist name LOL!! it would need to change the name or it would be bannned haha!!
Truth, unless my calculator had the percentage sign on it I never knew how to turn a value into percentages on a calculator because I never knew the formula (my own fault, I larked about too much). It is the same for computer/machine, yes they will make life easier, but it helps to know the basics so you can use it correctly and efficiently.
There are more and more idiot friendly designs being chucked out, but that just creates more ignorant people so the likeliness of an error occurring is far greater. I am still overly dependent on a spell checker, so I make a lot of mistakes when I don't have one and I still make several when I do as a wrong word spelt correctly will not get flagged.
Thankfully I can work out area of stuff and the circumference of a circle
Was it down to school? Yup. But when will "I" need to actually use it? Most grease monkeys work from a catalogue of parts, and it's only the designers that tend to have to worry about these problems.
Designer again, what I'm saying. That's what uni (or my proposed college course idea) is for
The general engineers, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, joiners, etc, don't need to know most of the stuff. Sure the knowledge helps but yeah.
Sake of 2 months? Not pedantic at all are we. I really can't be bothered Alex.
I think it's technology that is supposed to help us - When it doesn't work, most people are still in autopilot and don't notice.
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Auschwitz is a type of beer
(49 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG