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violent videogames and violent movies do 'blunt you'

No they just blunt you to movies with violence, the fear isnt real, there is no smell, no swett, and no instinct. It is entertainment and it is fantasy and it is plot point. It is nothing at all to do with adrenaline and the disregarding of cause and effect.

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Combine a person with sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies

Same thing... Sociopathy is the modern term for psychopathia: A condition where people are unable to form bonds and emotional connections to other people and are undettered by consequences of their actions when they hurt other people because they could not care less for anyone. It provides no motive to act in a bad way, it just removes the restraints that stops people acting in a bad way.

It is entirely possible to have a sociopath who is a "good person", these people are usually diagnosed as having "sociopathic tendancies" rather than being "sociopathic".

I'm going to stop talking about mental health like I know what i'm talking about now, and go back to being insane.

Quote from Becky Rose :

No they just blunt you to movies with violence, the fear isnt real, there is no smell, no swett, and no instinct. It is entertainment and it is fantasy and it is plot point. It is nothing at all to do with adrenaline and the disregarding of cause and effect.

You're comparing them directly, which is not my point or the point of any decent researcher for that matter. The issue is that frequent exposure to virtual violence may make the step up to real violence less shocking or traumatic. Sounds like the same thing? just isn't.

It doesn't mean that killing in GTA takes away all fear and inhibition, people need to stop taking this extreme and blowing it up out of proportion. The idea is that a person that has been exposed to violence in movies and games for 10 years has less trouble or dissonance when experiencing violence in real life than a person (considering similar situations and personalities) that has never seen violence before in any form. Note how I used the word "less" and not "zero" - the difference varies greatly per person.

Having said that, please do take my posts as a whole, because I do have a structure to my arguments that is now getting destroyed in fractions. ;>

I'll rephrase my previous statement it into this: a person frequently exposed to violence, with a troubled background, access to guns and sociopathic tendencies (yes, he could be a nice guy before the rampage) can cause a dangerous situation, but none of those factors alone make much difference.

PS. I truly hate to revolve to Wiki as a source, but I'm short on time and can't find the book that describes it, but Sociopathy and Psychopathy are certainly different things.

Quote from Jertje :

The idea is that a person that has been exposed to violence in movies and games for 10 years has less trouble or dissonance when experiencing violence in real life than a person (considering similar situations and personalities) that has never seen violence before in any form. Note how I used the word "less" and not "zero" - the difference varies greatly per person.

There are some things you can only know when you are in that situation. Exposure to violence may increase brovado, i'll accept that, but when it comes to crossing the threshold of intent to seriously harm or kill I don't think exposure has any rellevence. If the TV showed only war films there might be more soldiers, but it would be their experience and training as a soldier that gives 5% of soldiers the capacity to kill (the other 95% only shoot at shrubbery, with 95% of all combat casualties being caused by the 5% of soldiers with the capacity for it).

Having been shot at, shot, and faced a few actual life and death scenarios I speak only from the perspective of somebody who has just their personal experience, and I could be guilty of washing over the whole concept with my personal experience, but I just don't see how the world is getting more violence since the media age - have you read the bible? As a frame of reference to a time before TV and video games it's pretty damned blood thirsty (with a lot of begatting thrown in for good measure).

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PS. I truly hate to revolve to Wiki as a source, but I'm short on time and can't find the book that describes it, but Sociopathy and Psychopathy are certainly different things.

Psychology is a medicine and as such is subject to the concepts of 'current theories', i'll read up on David Lykken's theory if/when I get the impulse to know more on the subject.

i saw a small bit of home video footage from the shoot out on the news this morning when i woke up i thought it was some a film. lol then the news Presenter started talking. I was like WTF.

Apparently he posted a message on an "Internet chat room" before going on the rampage... Any idea which one, just out of curiosity?

There was a press conference at 13:00. The boy wrote about his plans on some online chat but rejected it later being just a joke.

His parents had ~15 weapons at home, around 4600 shots of ammunition.
He took a gun his dad kept in his bedroom and around 300 rounds.

The police found no evidence that he played more "killer" games than normal for that age, he was just a weapon fanatic.

2/3 of the victims in the school were female, and after he left the school he he killed a psychiatrist at a clinic he was under psychical treatment in. Than he hijacked a car and let the driver drive him to another towns car dealer where he tried to get another car. He later he shot himself there.

some of the info i heard (didn't watch all of it)

Quote from ACCAkut :

The boy wrote about his plans on some online chat but rejected it later being just a joke.

It's quite an astonishing insight that the whole thing was so premeditated, even to the point of bragging about it - and yet he felt sufficiently paranoid to pretend it was a joke - which shows how invested in that community he was.

I has friend, no really an actual friend not a therapist (I has had many a therapist but not anymore kk), who practices in a similar field and i'd be so gutted if one of her patients personalised stuff over her and did all this, even if she lived it would destroy her. I really feel for that shrink. Doctors are the front lines for combatting this kind of stuff, it's not an easy job.

Quote from Klutch :

No one will ever understand what its like until you, yourself have been in the same situation.

The reports I'm hearing is that the guy was a model definition of normal and not a victim of bullying and abuse.

Isn't that a recurring theme with a lot of these killers- that they're mostly normal, average, nice guy types?

Quote from TiJay :

Apparently he posted a message on an "Internet chat room" before going on the rampage... Any idea which one, just out of curiosity?

This one: www.krautchan.net

They're claiming that it was a fake, but I wouldn't be so sure, as of now. Police seem to be quite certain that it's real, and the fact that it was supposedly a father of a guy who saw the post last night and didn't take it seriously informed the police suggests that it might in fact not be a fake.

But who knows, with all that contradictory information flying around, it's hard to tell what's true and what's not.

Quote from Linsen :

But who knows, with all that contradictory information flying around, it's hard to tell what's true and what's not.

Noticed the same thing after the recent Finnish school shootings - the media has absolutely no responsibility of what they write. Like if somebody at the murder scene yells "the body of the school principal was raped by a berserk pink wearing gay", in five minutes it's on, at least, all the tabloid magazines' websites - presented not as a quote but as an absolute truth. Then if the info is later confirmed wrong, the false statement just gets edited away and everyone is happy. IMO internet media should carry the same responsibility as conventional media, and get fined or something if they publish eg. false body counts.

...which brings us to the next issue. I'm damn sure, that German tabloids are making hundreds of thousands, if not millions of extra euros today, because every other German citizen wants to read how sweet and promising footballer that Herman or Claudia they never even knew was, or see if there is any blood visible in the pics. F***ing disgusting.

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This one: www.krautchan.net

Figured it'd have *chan in the name somewhere because of the anonymity thing.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Isn't that a recurring theme with a lot of these killers- that they're mostly normal, average, nice guy types?

If by normal, average and nice you mean boring, shy people that have such problems with their social skills that they hardly have any real friends and have zero experience with the opposite sex then yes.

It's always the same. The media asks around "what was he like?" and everyone basically says "I don't know anything about him" and then all of a sudden everyone jumps to the conclusion that he must have been pretty nice and normal. I don't see what's normal about having zero relationships to people. In fact I think it is quite obvious that these type of people are very likely to be depressed and frustrated to a point where they end up just hating everyone.

BTW, was replying to your question in general, I haven't informed myself about this most recent case.

Did he "advert" the attack in 4chan?

EDIT: *Warning* http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9c7_1236837917

Quote from J.B. :

If by normal, average and nice you mean boring, shy people that have such problems with their social skills that they hardly have any real friends and have zero experience with the opposite sex then yes.

It's always the same. The media asks around "what was he like?" and everyone basically says "I don't know anything about him" and then all of a sudden everyone jumps to the conclusion that he must have been pretty nice and normal. I don't see what's normal about having zero relationships to people. In fact I think it is quite obvious that these type of people are very likely to be depressed and frustrated to a point where they end up just hating everyone.

BTW, was replying to your question in general, I haven't informed myself about this most recent case.

I can't speak for others, but I keep to myself most of the time and while I dislike people out of the box, I'd never even contemplate killing someone (or a whole group for that matter!). It doesn't always mean you're unnormal, but then again it's not normally normal for someone to prefer not to be around others

I think he had a few wires lose. :rolleyes:

Quote from J.B. :

If by normal, average and nice you mean boring, shy people that have such problems with their social skills that they hardly have any real friends and have zero experience with the opposite sex then yes.

That could still be a description of the average teen But yeah, reading a bit more- he's being portrayed as a loner with an obsession with guns and an extensive horror movie collection. I think you're right- some kids just fall off the social radar, and are tagged as normal because nobody really knows anything about them. It's a far cry from directed abuse perhaps, but still very damaging.

What a horrible mess.

it might be that games fot this, somehow now i have big need to get the riddics blades :hide: hopefully not gonna do anything with them if i get them

Quote from Vain :

Sorry.

Vain

I love you.

4chan is claiming the post, and was on tv apparently.

I smell a closing down. Good riddance too. Hope 4Chan people die in a ball outside.

Apparently it was a fake message...

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I can't speak for others, but I keep to myself most of the time and while I dislike people out of the box, I'd never even contemplate killing someone (or a whole group for that matter!). It doesn't always mean you're unnormal, but then again it's not normally normal for someone to prefer not to be around others

I think he had a few wires lose. :rolleyes:

As long as you're comfortable with yourself there's no problem of course. And of course you can't just categorize every loner as a potential mass murderer. But I do think that it's not really surprising that these kind of shootings happen now and then, while many people seem to be genuinely surprised that someone who is completely without a social life, may actually be suffering a great deal as opposed to being "just normal".

I've read some of the news stories now and the quotes are just as expected: "he avoided eye contact and hardly ever said anything to anyone but we didn't think he was strange", "he never had a girlfriend" (did any of the school shooters?) etc.

Quote from J.B. :

... But I do think that it's not really surprising that these kind of shootings happen now and then, while many people seem to be genuinely surprised that someone who is completely without a social life, may actually be suffering a great deal as opposed to being "just normal".

The problem is that all these infos (no social life, no friends, no GF etc) about the guy is media-hyped as usual.
Actually he was playing in a table tennis club for some years, had friends, made his high-school diploma, had an apprenticeship place etc.
So that doesn't sound completly strange to me, sounds more like he was a normal guy. Maybe he was a quiet (maybe a shy) guy but not really abnormal.

Quote from J.B. :

I've read some of the news stories now and the quotes are just as expected: "he avoided eye contact and hardly ever said anything to anyone but we didn't think he was strange", "he never had a girlfriend" (did any of the school shooters?) etc.

We will always get the same stupid things to read by the media after someting like that. Kiler-Games, Horror Videos, loner etc.

A friend of mine also had a theory. He said yesterday that 99,9% of people runnng amok had eaten bread in the last 12 hours before they did it and they also wear underwear. So there must be something wrong with bread and underwear, lets ban it.
That's exactly the same approach the media, lots of politicians and also some so called experts do.

Unfortunately there is no pill or cure or patent remedy (and I bet there will never be one) for things like that and sooner or later it will happen again like it has happend before also in the past before computer games etc.were available.

Sad but true

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I can't speak for others, but I keep to myself most of the time and while I dislike people out of the box, I'd never even contemplate killing someone (or a whole group for that matter!). It doesn't always mean you're unnormal, but then again it's not normally normal for someone to prefer not to be around others

I think he had a few wires lose. :rolleyes:

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I smell a closing down. Good riddance too. Hope 4Chan people die in a ball outside.

I don't want to insult, and I certainly don't want to defend 4chan, but I can't help pointing this out.

My name is Tim btw.

several (i think about 10 overall) teenagers were arrested the past two days for saying that they will do something similar like this tim k. did.

Quote from Timdpr :

I don't want to insult, and I certainly don't want to defend 4chan, but I can't help pointing this out.

My name is Tim btw.

But I wouldn't actually do it! Wishing someone would die (or a group) is something I'm sure we all experience. The thing that keeps us normal and civilized is the fact we know well enough not to do it.