It seems my graphics card broke down yesterday (at least I assume that's what the problem is) so now I'm on the lookout for a replacement. As I'm not really a gamer and the only thing I play is LFS it doesn't need to be a cutting edge graphics card. It needs to be decent enough to run LFS on 1680*1050 with AA on (I used to have it off 'cause my now fried card couldn't handle it).

So after a bit of looking and reading on the internet, I think the Geforce 9600 GT would be a good card for me. Only thing is... I'm utterly confused as to what differences there are between the different versions/manufacturers. These are the cards I'm looking at:

• MSI VGA N9600GT-ZILENT 1G-PCI-e 1GB DDRIII 2DVI TVO Game € 146
  
  
• Asus EN9600GT/HTDI/1GB PCI-E DVI-I € 153
  
• Asus EN9600GT SILENT/HTDI/512M PCI-E DVI-I € 151
  
  
• Asus EN9600GT Matrix/HTDI/512MB PCI-E DVI-I € 174
  
  
  

The first 2 have got 1GB of memory, the last 2 have got 512MB. What I don't get is why the ones with less memory cost about the same or even more. I've looked at their individual features but they all seem to be the same. Granted, I've not compared every single little detail, just the general product specifications. Does it have something to do with them havind different coolers? Eg. the ones with the "SILENT/ZILENT" specification will probably run quieter than the other ones. But is that really the only difference? Noise isn't that much of a point for me, I just want a card that will perform well and will allow me to play some of the more recent games if there should ever come one that interests me enough to play it Also, I have no idea what the "HTDI" stands for.

So I'm inclined to go with the 1GB version as my layman mind tells me "more memory = better performance". I know this isn't always the case, though, so if someone would be so kind as to educate me a bit on what sets these cards apart from one another and which one would be my best option for the things that I need, I would be very very grateful.

EDIT: oh, my cpu is a Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 and I've got 2GB of RAM.

Oh, I won't be much help, but BRAND will effect the price. I know people that won't touch an MSI Graphics card, etc. Makes not much difference to me.

Quieter running sound will cost more because that is a valued feature.

Maybe the clock speed is different in those models.


When I use LFS it only chews up around 211MB of card memory so a 1GB wouldn't help much in that respect. But other games... well, at least you would be future proofed for a while.

I have a MSI GEFORCE 9600GT SC 512MB DDR3 PCI-E X16
Superclocked 700/1900mhz
Cost me $242.00 AUD on 17th June 2008

I picked that card because it had a higher clock speed than the others in the same price/range and specifications.

The card is stable and performs well at most things.
eg. I can Run TDU at highest quality at 1920x1080, v-sync'ed 60hz quite well. I only notice slow down when I do a quick donut and the world turns really fast. Barely noticeable though.

I have a e8400 Dual core and 2GB ram. LFS runs anywhere from 70-190 FPS in any conditions at high quality and with Bloom mod running.
However, with that 9800GT card, I get strange AA effect on the tops of walls and barriers and objects with a flat top surface. It seems the card does not, by default, apply proper AA to those areas. I highlighted the issue here, http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=915118#post915118
Other games do not have this effect. It seems to be isolated to LFS.

I used nHancer control panel to tweak the card super/multisampling sampling AA mode. This fixed the issue but left me with around 45FPS
I think that model card is cheaper because they cut some corners to produce it.
This issue doesn't occur in other games so I don't know if it's LFS's fault or the card itself. Personally, I would have much rather spent an extra $50 on a better card initially. The issue in LFS really is ugly. But who knows if it occurs in newer versions of that card.

Well just FYI, and don't let me sway your choice. I'm not expert enough to give proper advice.

Alright, after some more comparing I think I'm gonna go with the MSI N9600GT Zilent 1G for € 146. Seems to be a pretty good card (although I actually don't know a lot about cards ) and the price is decent. I don't want to spend much more than that. I could go for the 512MB version for a little less than that, but I figure with this card I'll be a bit more "future proof".

Any valid reasons why I should not buy that card? Clock rate is 700mhz, memory clockrate is 1900mhz, as opposed to the 650mhz/800mhz of the 512MB version.

Only thing I'm wondering about is if my CPU is maybe not powerfull enough to get the most out of this card. In other words: will my cpu bottleneck this card? Like I said, I've got a Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (@ 2.4ghz I believe it runs) and 2 gb of ram. PSU is powerful enough, no worries there.

Quote from obsolum :

Only thing I'm wondering about is if my CPU is maybe not powerfull enough to get the most out of this card. In other words: will my cpu bottleneck this card? Like I said, I've got a Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (@ 2.4ghz I believe it runs) and 2 gb of ram. PSU is powerful enough, no worries there.

Not at all, in most games (possibly other than LFS), the graphics card will be the limiting factor.

I eman is there even a 1gb version of the same card i have?

I dont think so

Quote from kaynd :

Indeed.

Also don’t bother going for the 1GB version… this is just a marketing trick. A card like this could never be able to render that “great amount” of graphics, to use more than 512ΜΒ of it’s onboard memory.

Go for the cheapest 9600GT 512ΜΒ… If you want to spend more money, consider buying a 9800GT or an ATI 4850. I already have a 4850 and I am really satisfied especially with its adaptive AA feature and the core’s performance capabilities.

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the input. Any second opinions on this by other people?

I suppose the 512mb version would be just as good for LFS. I just thought the 1GB would give me a little extra in case I want to play some of the newer games. I don't want to buy a 9800GT because that one costs slightly more than I would like to spend. But now I'm worried that I'll have the same issue that JasonJ has with LFS. If I buy a new card I want LFS to look as crisp as possible, and not have any weird bugs or anything.

Argh... I really hate having to buy new graphics cards. So many different cards to choose from, and if you're not up to date with all the latest technologies like me, then it can drive you nuts

Quote from obsolum :

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the input. Any second opinions on this by other people?

I suppose the 512mb version would be just as good for LFS. I just thought the 1GB would give me a little extra in case I want to play some of the newer games. I don't want to buy a 9800GT because that one costs slightly more than I would like to spend. But now I'm worried that I'll have the same issue that JasonJ has with LFS. If I buy a new card I want LFS to look as crisp as possible, and not have any weird bugs or anything.

Argh... I really hate having to buy new graphics cards. So many different cards to choose from, and if you're not up to date with all the latest technologies like me, then it can drive you nuts

I have the same card and im fine don't worry.
I even have changed reflection textures and High res interiors for al cars

Buy the 1GB if you run a high res on your monitor

Quote from kaynd :

Also don’t bother going for the 1GB version… this is just a marketing trick.

Heard that too. Heard that an amount of 512mb cards preform better than some 1gb cards too. Make sure to review some benchmarks and professional/credible reviews of the cards as well as user satisfaction before buying, and buy the one you need. The graphics card market changes A LOT over time, so don't aim toooo much for "future proof". Go with a good price-performance ration.

Quote from obsolum :

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the input. Any second opinions on this by other people?

1gb is useful only for high resolutions which that gpu can't handle very well anyway, so generally it 's not worth it when it's more expensive. However, it doesn't hurt either, and since it's the cheapest, I'd say go for it.

Quote from Mc21 :

Buy the 1GB if you run a high res on your monitor

My monitor's maximum resolution is 1680*1050 so that's what I'm running.

Quote from AutoPilot :

1gb is useful only for high resolutions which that gpu can't handle very well anyway, so generally it 's not worth it when it's more expensive. However, it doesn't hurt either, and since it's the cheapest, I'd say go for it.

The 512mb version from the same manufacturer is cheaper than the 1GB so if what you say is true then I would go with the 512MB. ASUS cards seem to be a bit more expensive than MSI cards. I have no clue why, I've only really been looking at MSI cards since those are the ones that seem to be more readily available at stores here.

I'd go for the 512MB version personally if it's cheaper

Quote from obsolum :

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the input. Any second opinions on this by other people?

Kaynd is quite spot on, IIRC TechReport has an article comparing 1 GB vs 512 MB cards and the conclusion was the difference, when there's one, is negligible.

I would take ATI into consideration too, their recent production is quite interesting.

If you use or leave on your LFS PC a number of hours a day, I would take into consideration power consumption. IIRC the 3870/3850 have the most interesting performance/power consumption profile in the market - while the newer 4850/4870 used to have a software problem that prevented the card from truly entering low power mode when not in Full 3D use. This may have been fixed in the meanwhile, I can't really tell without googling.

Also keep in mind power consumption is the main reason for a card to be quiet or noisy, with the cooler behind only the second. Some cards IMO are simply unbearable but then it depends on your ambient noise baseline figure (including the rest of the PC of course), tolerance to noise and usage profile.

E.g. if you only turn on the PC to play LFS and then you pump up the volume or wear headphones, the noise emission of the card becomes irrelevant.

That said you can have cards that draw little power but have nasty fans with an ugly noise profile (=hurts nerves) or simply noisy.

Hope you find this useful.

Quote from NightShift :

Kaynd is quite spot on, IIRC TechReport has an article comparing 1 GB vs 512 MB cards and the conclusion was the difference, when there's one, is negligible.

I would take ATI into consideration too, their recent production is quite interesting.

If you use or leave on your LFS PC a number of hours a day, I would take into consideration power consumption. IIRC the 3870/3850 have the most interesting performance/power consumption profile in the market - while the newer 4850/4870 used to have a software problem that prevented the card from truly entering low power mode when not in Full 3D use. This may have been fixed in the meanwhile, I can't really tell without googling.

Also keep in mind power consumption is the main reason for a card to be quiet or noisy, with the cooler behind only the second. Some cards IMO are simply unbearable but then it depends on your ambient noise baseline figure (including the rest of the PC of course), tolerance to noise and usage profile.

E.g. if you only turn on the PC to play LFS and then you pump up the volume or wear headphones, the noise emission of the card becomes irrelevant.

That said you can have cards that draw little power but have nasty fans with an ugly noise profile (=hurts nerves) or simply noisy.

Hope you find this useful.

Thanks, definitely useful input there.

I do leave my pc running several hours a day, but to be honest I haven't once looked at the power consumption figures. I do turn the monitor off whenever I leave the pc, and when I'm sure I won't be using the pc for a while I usually turn it off.

I don't want to start a "Nvidia vs ATI" debate here, but I'd rather get an Nvidia card. I know ATI have some really good cards as well but... I don't know, I guess I'm just kind of an Nvidia guy I've always had Nvidia cards and never had problems with them so...

As for noise, I always wear headphones as I don't have any speakers ever since I moved my computer into the living room. So it's not an issue when I'm playing, but it can become annoying when we're just watching tv while the computer is running. The fact that the computer is practically right next to the tv doesn't help much in that regard, and then I haven't even mentioned that my girlfriend's pc is right next to mine and she leaves her pc running too. So we often have 2 computers running when we're watching tv We've gotten used to it, though, we hardly notice it anymore. Besides, this is all just a temporary situation until the renovations on our house are done and I can move my computer back into a seperate room, which will make the noise issue irrelevant.

Right, so far I'm inclined to order the 9600GT 512MB card. I'll do some more research and look for reviews that compare it to similar cards, but I think I've pretty much made up my mind

Thanks to everyone for the input. Don't let this stop you from commenting, though, I haven't ordered yet!

Sometimes you get similar clocked memory, but GDDR4 512MB versus GDDR3 (slower) 1GB memory - so it is worth checking.

The 9600 GT 512 MB isn´t a bad card for LFS, but you running at 1680x1050 with AA and AF you should get a 9800 GT.

This card can handle AA much better. I used to run LFS in 1680x1050 with a E8400, 8800 GT (similar) 8xQS AA, 16xAF 60 FPS at all time.

The 9800 GT is also much better in other games and is worth the little extra money.

Quote from obsolum :

I do leave my pc running several hours a day, but to be honest I haven't once looked at the power consumption figures.

Just to give you some meaningful figures to play with, I'm attaching a couple old tables.

PS: here's more data, tables and graphs included.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl ... adeon-hd4830_4.html#sect0
http://techreport.com/articles.x/16504/10
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl ... ati-radeon-hd4550_13.html
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3420&p=6
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/HD_4550_passive/

Sorry I said get 1GB "in-case/future proof" I was just rambling based on no knowledge. I really don't know the difference and if it's worth it, others here know more about optimisation on cards than me.

Quote from obsolum :

I don't want to buy a 9800GT because that one costs slightly more than I would like to spend. But now I'm worried that I'll have the same issue that JasonJ has with LFS. If I buy a new card I want LFS to look as crisp as possible, and not have any weird bugs or anything.

Yes I have an issue, but I don't want you to base your purchase on my one problem. I think someone else who has the same card that could confirm this glitch is needed here.
I've tried at least 3 of the lateset nVidia drivers on new XP installs. The only software I run on my PC is RBR, TDU, GTRevo and LFS. So I don't think it's a software issue in my case. Nothing else is installed to mess things up. Only LFS has this problem BTW.

The only way I could remove it was running nHancer in a higher sampling mode, thus making my Card crawl to 45 FPS (1680 x 1050) so I don't think the card has a hardware issue, it just doesn't do the AA/AF well on some isolated objects with default settings, mainly barrier tops and wall tops in LFS. Think of your whole game looking fantastic except for the tops of barriers and walls not getting as much AA/AF as the rest of the screen. It's kinda off putting and if I'd known this I would have gone for a more expensive card, even $100 more, even though I didn't want to spend the money at the time. I am kicking myself now of course. At this point I would have thrown an extra $100 on a card to remove this problem, had I known about it. My complete racing rig with 40"LCD and steel cockpit has cost me over $3,750 so a little over that would have been ok. Hindsight sux you know.

Other games don't really present this issue as much as LFS. So it might just be part of the rendering algorithm in LFS. I look at other games at the edges of surfaces, I look really hard and think to myself, "you know I think that edge could be a bit smoother, but it's ok, I guess". In the end you get what you pay for really.

Sorry I am repeating myself above, but really I think someone else with the same card should give their opinion as well.

Surely someone on these forums use a 9600GT 512MB ??? They notice this glitch in LFS as well?

Quote from Jakg :

Sometimes you get similar clocked memory, but GDDR4 512MB versus GDDR3 (slower) 1GB memory - so it is worth checking.

I didn't even know GDDR4 existed I'll keep an eye out for it. All the cards I've looked at have GDDR3, though.

Quote from NikLaw :

The 9600 GT 512 MB isn´t a bad card for LFS, but you running at 1680x1050 with AA and AF you should get a 9800 GT.

Hmm, like I said earlier, the 9800GT is a little over my budget. To be honest, the AA isn't really a "must have" for me. I've never had it enabled in LFS before and I'm perfectly happy with the way it runs. Yes, when I look at some of the screenshots that get posted here I'm like "damn, those screens look great!". But... I don't even think I would notice it when I'm racing. And that's really all I do in LFS. I don't use it to make screenshots or videos or anything. If my fps remain above 60 at all times with large grids, then I'm happy.

Thanks for the comment, though, I'll keep it in mind and maybe look for some good deals on the 9800GT.

Quote from Nightshift :

Just to give you some meaningful figures to play with, I'm attaching a couple old tables.

PS: here's more data, tables and graphs included.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...0_4.html#sect0
http://techreport.com/articles.x/16504/10
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...hd4550_13.html
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3420&p=6
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/HD_4550_passive/

Thanks, interesting charts. Unfortunately I can't seem to find results for the 9600GT anywhere in them. Or am I just missing them?

Quote from JasonJ :

Surely someone on these forums use a 9600GT 512MB ??? They notice this glitch in LFS as well?

Chrisuu01 said he has the same card and he doesn't have that issue. See post #8 in this thread

Quote from obsolum :

I didn't even know GDDR4 existed I'll keep an eye out for it. All the cards I've looked at have GDDR3, though.

GDDR5 (or even 6 I think) is out.

I'm not sure about that particular card but I remember there being a DDR3 256 MB and a DDR2 1GB 8600GT and the 256 MB one was a fair bit faster because of the larger memory bandwidth.

Alright, I bit the bullet and ordered a 9800GT for €161. I just hope I won't be disappointed with that card...

Quote from obsolum :

Alright, I bit the bullet and ordered a 9800GT for €161. I just hope I won't be disappointed with that card...

You won't be - that is quite expensive though, are hardware prices much more in Belgium than the UK? You can pick that card up for around €100-€120 here.

Quote from pb32000 :

You won't be - that is quite expensive though, are hardware prices much more in Belgium than the UK? You can pick that card up for around €100-€120 here.

I have no idea what the prices in other countries are. I ordered it from a store whose prices are usually quite a bit lower than other popular computer stores around here, so I thought I was getting a good deal. Guess not then eh

Hah well it's probably only $50 or something in America, that's just the price we have to pay I guess.