You do sound pessimistic, spankmeyer.
Did you see the change from s1 to s2?
expect the same again, maybe more. :-)

Quote from spankmeyer :

I kind of like rFactor's feel. Actually... I like it alot. Planning to purchase it, no doubt.

Some of you sound so certain that LFS will continue to evolve for years to come. Personally... I find it hard to believe that there will be a big development coming after the release of S2 final. Patches are sure to come, though, but I will be surprised if the devs have motivation left to upgrade (or perhaps rewrite) the graphic, sound and physics engine to keep up with the competition in the future.

Sorry if I sound too pessimistic...

I think you will find the devs support LFS as long as we are willing to purchase the licences for the next release. The way I see it is that while LFS is viable they get to work at home with hours they want on a project they want to work on instead of being in the office working on something they might not like.

Quote from Vykos69 :

I think you see it wrong, Rich. The biggest difference in LFS is, that we know and accept the still not finished parts, bugs, some unrealistic things (oval-setups ) etc. cause we know, we have an open ear on the dev-side and that things will change. Cause we for sure have the Sim with the best support ever, and the best contact from Devs to community. I have no problem with people criticising LFS; if they take into account, that their critics will be adressed and thought about deeply. I have a problem with ISI or GTR fanboyism, that say their game is perfect.
There are posts about wrong physics in LFS, with well written arguments, and they are adressed maturely, while a similar post in any ISI-based Simforum is flamed to death, just cause people think to know you (I) are (am) a LFS fanboy. That is annoying.

I wouldnt even flame Greger, knowing he likes GTR

Best example threads:
GTR-Forum:
Q: I get CTD and 1fps-bug, will there be a patch?
A: Must be your problem, learn to setup your system right, GTR runs perfectly on my sys.

LFS-Forum:
Q: I get CTD when doing this and that.
A: What are ur sys spec? You tried this? can you check for errormessages? Post them here please, I (Scawen) will have a look into it.

God damn, scawen even coded patches cause one single person had a strange bug...
Get the idea?

BTT: I'll have a look at ISI, but honestly, I doubt it will have a huge online Life. There'll be some cool mods, and some cool small mod-only leagues, but you wont have a good overall basis, especially cause ISI goes the hard way of selling over web only. They overestimate there some stuff a lot. F1C was so succesful, cause it was F1 and still easy to buy in shops after a year or so for less money to get the mods. rF wont be in shops, will only reach a limited amount of people, especially cause the community is still really small.

I was one of the people in that CTD/1FPS thread in the GTR forum... got into massive flame wars because I'm known as an LFSer. Fact is, I paid $80AUD for GTR and I was looking forward to it. I was very pissed off with GTR as I was getting the above and no-one was helping without blaming my system.. ffs, it's an obvious fault in the game if so many people get it, and if it was my system then how do I set it up correctly eh??

I don't believe in Simbins hype anymore either.

Anywho.... I liked the rFactor demo from way back, but I have this feeling that rFactor, after a month or so, will start collecting dust like my copy of GTR... I might try an updated demo and see how it goes, but LFS so far provides me with all my racing needs. I think I might wait for some decent mods as well

I tried rFactor last Saturday, it was really good actualy.
Graphics are really nice.
Sounds is way better than LFS.
Force Feedback is good.
Physics was good, tire physics even "seems" better than LFS. ( I KNOW LFS IS NOT FINISED )
The main problem , rFactor give you a feel of less freedom in the game than LFS.
Also, i had some GFX crash , GFX freeze i never had in LFS.
I couldnt really test the netcode, we where only 6 on the server i found, with 6 peoples, there were no lag at all. With 20 peeps, i dt know.
Again, the sound was really impressive when playing online Engine sound, brake disc squeal, transmission scream, rolling sound, gravel on chassis when driving on grass,etc... really immersive.
The fact that there is no Shilf-L or F9 function doesnt mean that the physics is weak... Actualy it is more real to not have it, where in earth can u see realtime suspensions and tire heating ? hmmm... you can have it on telemetry in pits, that's all.

When rFactor will be release, there will be a new demo. Be sure that i'll test it. And if it is better than LFS, well, that will be 2 good sim to play , instead of 1, that's all bonus for us

cheers,

Quote from Gunn :

When someone gets off their bum and adopts a philosophy that aims for realism in the way the car behaves within the "physical" envinronment and focusing strongly on the racing element, rather than trying to wow people with content just so they fork over their cash, then they would threaten to become a rival to LFS in my mind.

I couldn't agree more. I've bought and played the majority of racing sims available before stumbling upon LFS.

It has what I want. When something comes along that has what I want and is even better, I'll switch immediatly. I just don't imagine that being in the near future.

rFactor and GTL seem to have no feel to me, I even lost interest in the GTR demo, which had Spa and the Morgan, a combination I would love to race, but even with the pro physics it felt like I was completely disconnected from the car, I may as well have driven from the chase cam, I have no doubt that the ISI games are very realistic they just don't feel right.

LFS has more feel, S2 is much better than the S1 demo, but GPL and N2003 just felt pefect, credit to DK and Papy/F$rst/iRacing/whatever there called today they really did get the feel just perfect, I think LFS still suffers from to much screen information, you should be able to press shift + F and still get blue/yellow flags, also I would love to see a pitboard.

Quote from ajp71 :

I think LFS still suffers from to much screen information, you should be able to press shift + F and still get blue/yellow flags, also I would love to see a pitboard.

I agree with you there. I'd like to see this as a server side option where clients are forced into in-car view and have no outside help like the map. I think eventually we'll see yellow flags being done by cornerworkers instead of the "yellow flag" text on screen.

Quote from ruckus37 :

But I think with the current modding capabilities of rfactor, we will see races being developed with special racing rules, forced gameplay modes (cockpit view) etc. long before lfs can offer these options.

I hope you're wrong about this point. I really like LFS and would hate to have it left behind feature-wise compared to rFactor. I still haven't seen much of rFactor that would make me want to switch sims. The graphics, cars, interiors, etc leave much to be desired if you ask me. I hate the idea of mods though, and I think all of the customization will make having a level playing field much more difficult. I really like the idea of real-world tracks and cars though.

I guess time will tell how LFS and rFactor compare. Personally, I'll probably wait until there are some worthwhile mods for rFactor before I bother with it. But, it's not like buying it is a huge investment, so maybe I'll blow the $40 sooner than I plan to.

Quote from Dygear :

Live For Speed works on ALL platforms

Can you use LFS on a mac? I use it on my windows computer, but i would love to be able to use it on my laptop also.

Quote from WillMcCaskill :

Can you use LFS on a mac? I use it on my windows computer, but i would love to be able to use it on my laptop also.

No you can't use it on a Mac. There aren't enough Mac users on the planet to warrant the labour involved to make a Mac version. I'm fairly sure there will never be a Mac version of LFS.

Quote from Gunn :

No you can't use it on a Mac. There aren't enough Mac users on the planet to warrant the labour involved to make a Mac version. I'm fairly sure there will never be a Mac version of LFS.

I understand what you are saying, but Macs are becoming very popular now that there are cheap ones. Also, simulations typicly do very well on macs, look at X-Plane.

Isn't LFS already running on openGL? That would make porting it much easier.

I'm not trying to say that you are wrong, just that there may be a bigger market out there than you think, and that it may not be that ridiculous of a thought.

It's not worth the trouble to code for Mac when they'll be running Intel hardware in 2 years time anyway. Wait for the Intel Macs to come out, then see if LFS works on them. I'm going to bet that it does.

I thought LFS was DirectX (8 iirc)

Quote from WillMcCaskill :

I understand what you are saying, but Macs are becoming very popular now that there are cheap ones. Also, simulations typicly do very well on macs, look at X-Plane.

Isn't LFS already running on openGL? That would make porting it much easier.

I'm not trying to say that you are wrong, just that there may be a bigger market out there than you think, and that it may not be that ridiculous of a thought.

I know what you are saying, it's just that I think Macs are basically going to become extinct. The reason Macs are getting cheaper is because people don't want them. I think also if Apple wish to attract gamers they need to stop making computers that look like they should have a Hello Kitty logo on the side. It is a bit sad really that Macs aren't as popular or as well supported as PCs, but that's the world we live in. The devs have never been really driven by the need to sell LFS to every possible gamer, and porting over to Mac would be perhaps too much work for too little return.

Well...just commited the sacrilege of geting rFACTOR...and i cant understand why people make so much hype saying its WAYYYY different from Demo version when from where i am standing it feels exactly the same thing.... it is a neat sim, im my point of view its strongest point over LFS besides the obvious sound (aldo i must say that on the open wheeler LFS sounds is better for me...the wind, the echos....nothing of this is in rFACTOR, on the other side theres a series of small sounds that we already saw in GTR and also GT Legends that are there and do give some better feeling.. but...still i think that the way LFS does it gives alot more feedback) ..... is the future MODS...and thats about it....

Everyone is all hyped up now because its new and so on....

My first comparision was the imediate and obvious Formula XR against the Formula trainer....well.... its WAAYYYY better the FOX, theres not even a comparision between these 2, the others i still cant judge because i havent tried them...just a bit the small one...the puntoish thing....

I cant stop this all the time sliding feeling....its weird....cant understand what it is........

Oh well.... in my Book LFS still is way better then this rFACTOR...at least the first encounter......

EDIT: Another thing that pisses me off in all ISI engines is the goddam stuttering from hell that happens for no aparent reason in a randomic way... i cant understand this..i dont know what version of DX LFS uses but i selected DX7 (PERFORMANCE....yeah right) and i still get stuttering..... same as GTR and GT Legends..... also...whats wrong with the perception of the size of a track with these guyz....everything fels so narrow.... Eric is indeed a genious at track making.....

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I hate the idea of mods though, and I think all of the customization will make having a level playing field much more difficult.

The server must have the car you race already loaded on it, and assuming the hdv and ini files are checked there shouldn't be an issue with people turning up with bigger engines and tires than they're suppose to.

If your talking about buying upgrades and new cars with credits you've earnt then I totally agree with you.

Quote from ajp71 :

The server must have the car you race already loaded on it, and assuming the hdv and ini files are checked there shouldn't be an issue with people turning up with bigger engines and tires than they're suppose to.

If your talking about buying upgrades and new cars with credits you've earnt then I totally agree with you.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was indeed talking about upgrading the cars. I would LIKE to see mods such as totally new cars (60's muscle cars, off road trucks, etc) and real world tracks. I just don't like the thought of someone who has more time to play than I do constantly winning because he's got more credits. I like the fact that LFS is a totally even playing field. If you win it's because you can drive better and/or you can setup your car better, not because you have more credits or a bigger turbo. :thumbsdow

I'm just closing this thread as it was a pre-release prediction type of thread...

rFactor is now released and there is a new thread about it in the off-topic section :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=1158