Trying to get used to the new physics on the FXO this morning, and I notice the amount of tyre deformation I am getting.

I would assume that the tyres fitted to a car like the FXO would be low-profile high performance tyres, if that is the case, I certainly wouldnt imagine that you would get this much deformation IRL, heck I am riding on the sidewalls round most of the corners.

The pressures are high enough, I suppose my main question is, this deformation, is it just a visual effect, or are the tyre physics deforming that much?.

(loving the patch BTW)

Dan,

Yeah it might be a bit too extreme, just to show off that feature.

People are suprised by the feature, and like to see it. I guess if it wasn't so extreme looking, it wouldn't be noticeable. But for the sake of making things a bit more realisitc, this could be toned down a bit.

I have seen pictures where the tires look like they are falling off like that, where the rim's edge is visible, but it wasn't so extreme like in this pic, since the actual tire's structure was still intact, just squashed down. This however is flexing and pulling.

Yeah, thats basically what I thought, it is accenuated to show the effect, rather than the actual tyre physics deforming that much, so visual rather than physical?.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

The pressures are high enough

How high? Default?

2psi down on default RACE_S set, which is 32psi, mine are at 30psi.

Dan,

I first thought the same thing, it was too severe, so I tried to look at real cars racing and driving, and I noticed it isn't that far away from the real thing. I don't know about pressure and stuff, but I notice the tyre "falls of" the rim in real life too sometimes.

Default is 31.9, Race_S is 31.2 in fact.

So you're about 2 psi below recommended pressure. Also we can't see from your screenshot what you are doing, is the front right wheel heavily loaded, do you have a stiff front anti roll bar, etc.

I don't think the deflection is far from correct, I see extreme tyre deflection on road tests on Top Gear, Fifth Gear, etc. And in real life when I've watched road cars take a corner very hard, same thing.

F1 tyres do some big deflection as well, watch the GP this weekend, I seem to remember the Italians like to do a lot of slowmotion shots and you see the tyres moving all over the place on the chicanes.

Greetings scawen


I've noticed that the logo's don't deform with the tyres, not much a bug, but it's there I sometimes use a custom view that's just outside the drivers side window, where you can see the dash still(guages etc) and the font wheel, that's where I most noticed it, as you are basically looking at the tyre in a profile view.

S'true. Tyres deform a hell of a lot IRL. F1 tyres are all over the shop. When I saw the screen shots for the patch buildup I was actually suprised to see tyre deformation there at all. I think the fact that we have it all is a testament to Scawens programming and considerations. I think the tyre modelling (Unless you want to get into minutia) is actually quite adequate for LFS's needs atm . . .

I think the amount of deformation is ok, but the profile of the LFS tires is rather round. Most tires that you see being nearly pulled off the rim are low profile tires and ones that have a 'sharp' edge where the sidewall and tread meet.

I know one car for example that has those kinds of tires and ALWAYS has this tire deformation, the EVO VII, and Skyline GTR too actually.

So basically what I am saying is, the tire doesn't have a long and broad round curve when the tire flexes, it needs to have a FLAT contact patch on the ground as if it were gripping, but also be pulling to make a sideways deformation.

EDIT: Well these aren't flexing much
http://members.cox.net/jeggert4/images/Focus_chase_2.jpg
http://www.tyrolsport.com/midohiopics/MKS_5830.JPG
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ... uy/Hyperfest/IMG_0287.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ... uy/Hyperfest/IMG_0510.jpg

Cannot find a great picture, but see here:

Fair play, if the general concensus is the deflection is correct, then I am happy with that, my ARB is quite stiff, I am pulling maybe 1.4G around the corners, they are high speed corners, but it just looks odd, the tyres look like blu-tac.

I run 40 profile tyres on my road car, and if they deformed any where near this much i'd be on the rims , mind you they are reinforced sidewall tyres.

Will this new tyre model put an end to the setups with extremely low tyre pressures?, if I am getting this much deformation with 30psi, I would how it would work with some of the 16psi setups I have seen

Dan,

i remember some footage of a f1 michelin tire that just moves left /right all the time on the rim while its in the air, or under heavy load!!

maybe you can see it in the GP this weekend !

adios JeeP

heres a little vid of tyres deforming, its not very gd quality but you can make out especially on the front wheels of the two white cars LINK

Quote from Tweaker :

So basically what I am saying is, the tire doesn't have a long and broad round curve when the tire flexes, it needs to have a FLAT contact patch on the ground as if it were gripping, but also be pulling to make a sideways deformation.

EDIT: Well these aren't flexing much
http://members.cox.net/jeggert4/images/Focus_chase_2.jpg
http://www.tyrolsport.com/midohiopics/MKS_5830.JPG
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ... uy/Hyperfest/IMG_0287.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb ... uy/Hyperfest/IMG_0510.jpg

Cannot find a great picture, but see here:

I couldn't find any pictures, but something like 10 years ago when the Citroen Xantia with active suspension came out, they were a lot of picture of the car cornering like mad with no roll at all; You could see tires almost jumping out of the rims, *very* impressive !

my impression is that for slick tires it seemsquite real but not for road normal/super tires.

i mean, i suppose normal tires are on "standard" rims and road super on a bit bigger rims and what it feels very wrong to me is the relation pressure/grip, in real life when "road normal" tires have low pressure they deform a lot, but still much less than in lfs (visually speaking), in RL when tire pressure is under the optimal, grip is much less, while in lfs grip is MUCH MORE! so people tend to use low pressure tires...my first impressions are that with new patch slick tires seems much more realistic (but i dont have much experience with RL slicks), but road tires fells much worse, but the point to me is only due to pressure/grip relation.

using F9 it clearly shows that even with exaggerated negative cambers we are always driving on sidewalls if we dont put extremely high pressures, so im pretty sure something has to be tuned.

i also think that the pressure/grip was wrong in patch Q but never showed up so clearly because of lesser realistic tire simulation, now that tire simulation is much improved, it feels much evident IMO.

On school we used to have Michelin days where they would give information about their tires. They showed footage from a camera mounted below a 205/16 in action. It looked pritty much like those screenshots above. It looked just like a giant hand was constantly trying to pop the heel over the rim. It took us a while to actually accept that that was a tubeless tire

But I don't know if modernday tires still bend that much.

Quote from Ramses :

On school we used to have Michelin days where they would give information about their tires. They showed footage from a camera mounted below a 205/16 in action. It looked pritty much like those screenshots above. It looked just like a giant hand was constantly trying to pop the heel over the rim. It took us a while to actually accept that that was a tubeless tire

But I don't know if modernday tires still bend that much.

we are not talkin only about graphic effect BUT phisic effect: if u try lapping with F9 info u see that while cornering the wheight is all on the very edge of the tire while the 66% of tire surface is "lifting" from tarmac...and this cannot be right/real

I think the reason some people have a problem with the deformation in LFS is because visually it 'doesn't look quite right'.

I think that this is because under severe deformation, the tyres in LFS don't move laterally on the rim (at least visually they don't), whereas in real life they would, this means that they look more 'stretched' than in real life.

I couldn't care less about this - it's not noticable when racing, and I doubt that it has any impact on the accuracy of the algorithm in terms of feel. Just be aware that it makes things look a little odd in close-up stills of the effect.

cheers

col.

those are road tyres under gp conditions.
how often do u see that?

people tend to forget they are using normal everyday cars with normal everyday tyres on grandprix circuits, causing huge Gs...


lfs will also improve in future where diferent brands will cause dif tyre natures...

Rememember the cars in LFS are being setup with full adjustable full race suspension to be very stiff. Add to that the lack of body flex simulation and low tire pressures and stupid amounts of tire deformations are bound to happen until the sets get adjusted to the new physics.

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

those are road tyres under gp conditions.
how often do u see that?

people tend to forget they are using normal everyday cars with normal everyday tyres on grandprix circuits, causing huge Gs...


lfs will also improve in future where diferent brands will cause dif tyre natures...

infact i consider because i drive my car (xfg like) at its very grip edge even while braking and even while cornering, so while i specified i do not have experience with slicks and not said it about road tires, i tought it was clear i think to be enoughly objective and see if someone else have the same feelings.
a firend of mine with a similar car but with slightly better tires (17 inches rims and litle wider tires), has very little deformation.

as i said my point is not merely on graphical effect wich is much less important, but quite on phisic effect. as tweaker said, the flat part of tire is "hardly" deforming in RL but on lfs is the opposite...anyway, screenshots previously posted show powerful cars at very limit race conditions and u can see yourself the amount of deformation.

I think everybody should just stop anally examining every little bit of physics/simulation and just go and bloody well race. Have fun, its this kind of constant second guessing and speculation about whether something is right or not that is sucking the joy out of the sim racing community.

No offense to you personally Dan

Quote from ajp71 :

Rememember the cars in LFS are being setup with full adjustable full race suspension to be very stiff. Add to that the lack of body flex simulation and low tire pressures and stupid amounts of tire deformations are bound to happen until the sets get adjusted to the new physics.

well before starting to speak i've done some tests changing settings...and it seems i was quite in touch with the new patch since with xfg i've managed to be 1 or 2 seconds fater than other online and even more fast offline.

also i have more than enough phisic knowledge to know that what F9 shows you with road tires is very far from reality.

you talk as you would have tested lot, but you clearly didn't even a little, please do some test to see what im talking about

I never said whats right and whats wrong, just wanted some opinion on it TBH

I have been racing, a lot, and I was analizing why the FXO didnt lap aswell as it did, and why the other cars were better, now I have made a list of the car changes I can see why.

Sorry for over-analizing it, its just it feels so new and alien ATM.

Dan,