The online racing simulator
#1 - axus
Something wrong with FF since the patch?
I'm not sure what this is... I'm still connected to the car as ever but there's certain subtleties that are missing in the FF or so it feels. The bumps on South City are not that feelable in the BF1 - the major ones still are and when you brake over a curb it still shakes the wheel, however sometimes I see the in-game wheel shaking around and all I feel through my wheel is the "center-spring" effect. Is it just me or is there something wrong here?
It feels better to me... not sure though..
i think it may be that the ff was a bit over the top in previous version, certainly the amount of kick that some cars gave through steering when hitting a kerb on road tyres seemed a bit excessive (not talking about effort, just the actual input from the game) possibly a side effect of the tyre problem or some other area that has now been altered in the car physics
I wouldn't say something wrong, just something different. Perhaps just need to get used to the patch and edit your FF settings etc?
i use the settings everyone uses with DFP and i also feel, or better, i dont feel most of the bumps on track, just some apex's here and there but most of them give zero feedback and i know its wrong because i can see the car jumping all over the place and the wheel feels like butter.

its always been like that for me... patch or not some zones of the track feel great while others nothing at all
The FF has't changed at all. If it feels different then it's either a different setup or a different car.
#7 - axus
Whilst caster helps with the general feel there's still something wrong - can't put my finger on it yet, but certain things are just MISSING, therefore increasing caster does not help. I don't know if the BF1, being fast on a new level to LFS requires improvements for FF but something doesn't feel right.
GAK, I can't even control my MOMO driving that BF1 on any SO track, it's insane!! Any more feedback and it would be a bit strange in my world..... Not sure what to tell you Axus...

One good thing that I noticed though that I haven't noticed elsewhere:

Try sitting still in the BF1, then apply full brakes and attempt to turn the wheel.... It's hard since the wheels are locked. Turn it a bit, and release the brakes, and you feel the wheel spring loose...

The new tire model surely affects the FF on some level, I would like
Quote from GP4Flo :The FF has't changed at all. If it feels different then it's either a different setup or a different car.

Same car, same setup & in-game FF, no changes in profiler settings. I had to reduce the FF by a half to get the same amount as before the S/T patch, weird
I have put back my FFB force to 50% instead of 100% to get my feeling back now it is just perfect
Most of the cars are okay, but the FOX has much less general feedback (using any setup I can make) that P/Q did. Sometimes restarting LFS or rejoining the server seems to give it the kicking it needs. Needs more research before it can be filled under bug though.
#12 - col
wheel turn compensation
FWIW, The wheel turn compensation slider in Options->controls seems to have a large impact on perceived FF realism (at least for my wheel, its a LWFF 'old red').
In the BF1, try it at 100% then at 0% to see - also beware of the obvious difference in controller sensitivity.
I have gone for a compromise of 45% for the time being (0% is awesome, but just too stressfull

col.
i had 0% since i can remember... how stressfull is it? never tried with other value
#14 - Woz
As the way the tires interact with the road surface has changed with this patch I would expect the FF to change as this small area is what really drives the FF.

There is a change in feeling and it is subtle but now I have got used to it I find I feel more connected with the car. Cant say why though, just feels better.
#15 - col
Quote from spyshagg :i had 0% since i can remember... how stressfull is it? never tried with other value

how stressful depends on your wheel
The LWFF only has 180º lock to lock, so with the setting at 0%, the BF1 gets really twitchy, the tinyest of movements of the wheel have a major effect, and the FF oscillation issues can be more obvious as well.

col.
100% compensation should theoretically yield the best results since probably we spend most of the time somewhat near centre. The FF is probably more accurate as well
not sure about the 100%
i think 100 overcompensates a little leading to what almost feels like a deadzone round the centre
Quote from Shotglass :not sure about the 100%
i think 100 overcompensates a little leading to what almost feels like a deadzone round the centre

Well, since around the centre the wheel ratio to the virtual steering is 1:1, this would be the most "accurate" setting 99% of the time. I'm starting to be convinced that this is why some people have a totally different perception of LFSs feedback than I do. I have always used 100% and always will, anything else seems to dumb things down and drown my feeling for the car out.
havent tried laetly (most of the time im driving at 720°) but iirc with 100% the ingame wheel lags a bit behind the one on my desk
Quote from tristancliffe :Sometimes restarting LFS or rejoining the server seems to give it the kicking it needs. Needs more research before it can be filled under bug though.

Interesting that you should say that. I sometimes had that feeling before the new patch (with the XFG mostly but it could apply to any car) but decided that it was just a personal misconception. As for patch T, I haven't done enough driving to be able to judge if this still seems to happen.

On a more general note: For me the FF certainly has improved with the new patch. I seem to feel better and faster what the car is doing and also seem to get a better feel for the actual weight of the car through FF (just try going from the LX6 to the FZ5 or vice versa and you know what I mean, lol).
Yeah, it's better when it works - I'm getting more info from it, and kerbs seem to be wobbling the wheel a bit more, but I'm still getting occasions when the wheels is just dead. It's not floppy, and restarting the FFB in Options doesn't help. It's like sometimes a variable gets 'stuck'. But as I say this is very vague at the moment because I haven't sat down and worked out the scenarios required to reproduce it. Once we can reproduce it Scawen can fix it.
all i can say for sure at this point is that the ff lag has decreased by a lot ... which i great
i get a limp wheel sometimes, the ff is still there but very faint, reinitialising with shift-c or whatever works but i found out it was the power connector in my wheel that sometimes doesnt work right, give it a wiggle and shift c and its back, my gameport msff is getting old and tired.
The FF is oh so improved with patch T. Shotglass hit one point well, lag time went to zero. In the past, I always felt the FF was behind what was actually happening in the game. Now, it seems dead on. As well, there's a lot more feeling of the road. South City is a good example as it's quite rough and with a good amount of bumps and elivation changes.

There's so many little details that come out now. If you go over a bump, you actually feel it. You can better feel the car's weight shift around. I got air born on SO Long Rev down the hill at the end of the back straight running the FZ. It felt like I was actually in the air, never experienced that before. Bounding over bumps, curb strips, or even the pull of the g-forces on the curve under the bridge right before the finish line. All those little things are actually there now. I was thouroughly amazed at the improvement.

Axus, I'd definately check your settings.

In Windows, I run Overall Effect Strength at 100% and both Spring and Dampener Effect forces are 100% as well.

The Spring and Dampener Effect levels are for effect types. It's not an adjustment for a spring rate and dampening level of the wheel. They're just two very general categories of effects. You put one down, you lose some of the FF effects associated with that category. You can of course fine tune these, but I just leave them at 100%. They affect LFS some but not a lot. I think other games may be more greatly affected by these settings.

Check(enable) Centering Spring effect but set it to 0% It's to get around a problem in the software. With it unchecked(disabled) there's a deadzone area at the wheels center that gets created. In this deadzone, there is zero FF effect. It's not greatly noticable, but it is there and can be annoying. Enabling this Centering Spring effect gets rid of this deadzone, so there's no FF empty spot at the wheel's center. Then you set it to 0% to effectively disable the effect. In real life, there are no centering springs. Car's naturally center through inclination and caster settings...exactly as they do in LFS as well. Just don't use it.

In LFS, I run Wheel Turn Compensation or Steer Center Reduction as it used to be called at 0. This is LINEAR movement. The higher you set that, the less linear and more progressive the wheel becomes. You get little in game steering around center on the wheel and a whole lot of in game steering near the extremes of the wheels turn range. Again, this can be toyed with for effect. You can gain a lot of precision for light turning angles by using this. However, I personally like it completely linear, so it stays 0 for me. I've played with it in the past. I actually used it for a FF joystick, as it was basically needed to make the joystick usable without MASSIVE oscilation. Joysticks don't have much mechanical dampening so the FF can really get out of hand easily. You either had almost no FF or basically uncontrolable around center. Steer Center Reduction allowed me to set a decent amount of FF strength AND have a joystick that was actually controlable around center. After I moved to a wheel, Momo Racing, I found this setting to be quite useless for that benifit, and it went to zero.

To control oscilations, I simply limit my overall FF strength in the game. At some point, I begin to get minor oscilations around center, more of just minor twitchiness really, nothing remotely violent like the FF joystick. I actually find I run my FF strength a good bit below this level as I find the wheel's FF effect overpowering above a certain point. I actually seem to be fighting the wheel's FF more than just feeling it. FF Strenght too high, and it turns into a wrestling match. As well, you seem to lose the variation between light and hard forces. All forces kind of become hard forces as most everything is transmited near the wheels maximum attainable force.

For setting in game FF strength, you kind of have to find that point where you get a good amount of FF feel but not to a point where it's overpowering. And, you need it to still be light enough as to differenciate light effects from hard effects. The wheel itself is only mechanically capable of so much force. To can't get higher, so you remain lighter to create a fuller range of strength levels. As well, you'll find yourself changing FF strenghth as you change to different cars. A "proper" FF strength with a GT will be different than with a Formula car or LX car. For example, the LX force feedback is very light compared to the GT Turbo. I usually up my FF strength to about double that of my GT Turbo level, just to create a similar amount of overall force in the wheel.

Anyways, play with the settings. The FF in the game is really quite impressive. It was good before, but with patch T, is very, very good.
You don't need any spring or damper in LFS.. they are not affects controlled by the game.. they are affects added by the Logitech drivers. You can use them, but you lose nothing by setting them to zero. A little damper is fine, but if you run too much it will muddy the affects. The spiring doesn't do much really..

I run
100/0/0/unchecked/0
/overall/spring/damper/centering/centering force

or you can run 70 to 80 overall so you can have more control in game since it only goes in increments of 5.

Pretty low in game.. depending on car.

You can run 720 degrees on a DFP and set it to 720 in game with 1.00 "wheel turn compensation" and never touch it again.. Or you can run no wheel turn compensation and then run whatever rotation you want for each car, etc..

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