hi,
i dont now this is the right thread to ask but.. :P
its possible to make the road to reflect little bit the car and the objects
like after rain

Nope, we would need directX 9.0 support in LFS propably, and that would need months of rewritting the engine . Maybe in the future, but not possible now.

thats sad
and how the car reflects then ?

Any reflection is an DX9 function. Then, I really don't see S3 using DX9, but DX10, or is that just wishful thinking?

Quote from BOSCHO :

thats sad
and how the car reflects then ?

The car in lfs doesn't reflect anything. It's just a static texture that moves across the mesh as the mesh rotates according to the POV.

Quote from Taavi(EST) :

The car in lfs doesn't reflect anything. It's just a static texture that moves across the mesh as the mesh rotates according to the POV.

+1, if the reflection would be affected by the 'world' then alot of people could not play the game. If the reflection would be by the 'world reflecting' thingy - then it could suck pretty much fps in the rendering proccess.

Quote from hazaky :

+1, if the reflection would be affected by the 'world' then alot of people could not play the game. If the reflection would be by the 'world reflecting' thingy - then it could suck pretty much fps in the rendering proccess.

LFS could also use cubemaps, which is still a static texture, but moves according to the position of the car in the "world" and the POV. Could be a problem for older machines, but it's not really a performance killer, as long as you have at least a DX8 card. I do understand, that it's not necesary to use them, it's just eye candy. But on screenshots and in videos, it would look a lot better (modern). Environment mapping could always be used as an option. Cubemaps are not hard to make, but i don't really know how hard they are to integrate into a game, as i have no clue about the programming side of games.

tnx i understand now i hope lfs migrate to dx9 or dx10
Taavi(EST) c'mon... we are in year 2009 .. almost everyone are having computers with good configuration

Quote from BOSCHO :

tnx i understand now i hope lfs migrate to dx9 or dx10
Taavi(EST) c'mon... we are in year 2009 .. almost everyone are having computers with good configuration

Yes we do, but FPS is still the most important thing when it comes to simracing. I for example find 30fps unplayable in LFS. But in other games I'm fine with ~20fps. I say, we should get the most out of DX8 before we move onto DX9 (DX10 is pointless). I do agree, that LFS should have some improvements in the graphics department. Such as improved shadows. In Z10 we see that the cars now have better shadows, but the environment shadows, like tree and misc. object shadows still look like crap, they don't even resemble the object what's casting the shadow. Seems like the improvements in the car shadow didn't take much work, so why not improving other shadows as well.

But as reflections are concerned, cubemaps, in my opinion is the best way to go. But as it is now, is fine by me, i wouldn't even whine when the car didn't have any shine. But the shadows really distract me when i see sunlight in a place where it is impossible, or a shadow where there's no object casting the shadow. Shadows should be way higher on the list as a graphical improvement than reflections. But that's just me.

we just need to wait lfs to integrate the new dx and all the things like more realistic smoke, lights, rain etc. will be in it

Boscho, sure, DX9 will make everything itself.

Are you people dumb? Even software renderer can make rain effect!!!11

Reflections are for sure possible with DX8. Just take a look at the cars or the lakes at Blackwood and google for screenshots of GP3/GP4 which both had superb rain effects and reflections using DX6/7/DX8 (and even software mode).

Edit: Found a pic of GP3 (from 2000, using DX6):

From one side: Devs have much more "important" stuff do to right now. I say important quoted because how important could it be for a game.. but anyway.. On this side then -0.5 :P
Let's say on fps side: -0.5 more.

On the other 2 sides I respect bulgarians(+0.5) and this would be a cool effect(+1). So +1.5 on those sides.

Sooo at final: +0.5 from me, because I would like to see such feature/effect/w.e u want to call it.

ps: I was going to give 0.5 anyway I just needed an excuse.

They have to update the engine to DX10 at some point anyway, if the game is still DX8? Then a jump of two or even three to DX11 would be a good start.

Quote from Concorde Rules :

They have to update the engine to DX10 at some point anyway, if the game is still DX8? Then a jump of two or even three to DX11 would be a good start.

I don't think so. DX10 is pointless unless you're playing games like Farcry. You can get very good spray and reflection effects with DX9 if you want.

Take Call of Duty 2.. I believe that was a DX9 name (could have been 8 though) and the smoke textures were awesome... It's an old game and yet it has awesome smoke.. Now I'm talking literally but surely it's not hard to change smoke into a sort of misty fog..

DX9 is all that would be needed IMO to bring the game into the modern ages, graphically speaking.

Quote from GP4Flo :

Reflections are for sure possible with DX8. Just take a look at the cars or the lakes at Blackwood and google for screenshots of GP3/GP4 which both had superb rain effects and reflections using DX7/DX8 (and even software mode).

Edit: Found a pic of GP3 (from 2000, using DX7):

So it can be done
im not programmer but i think its not hard to do this ?

All i have to say now is. :doh:

In GP3, there are no reflections, it's just a texture algorithm, you can see the environment (houses, objects) reflecting, but not cars. As you can see here:

It's not easy. Implementing that to lfs would take a serious rewrite in the graphics engine, as would any change in the reflections department. It's not just a piece of code. In fact, any upgrade in LFS's graphics would take a serious rewrite, as LFS does not use pixel shaders, LFS uses vertex shaders. And if i'm not mistaken, vs_1.1 (vertex shader1.1) which is very limited.

Actually, someone more knowledgeable should speak here. Someone who can explain where LFS's limits are now.

Quote from Taavi(EST) :

All i have to say now is. :doh:

In GP3, there are no reflections, it's just a texture algorithm, you can see the environment (houses, objects) reflecting, but not cars. As you can see here:

It's environment mapping, and games today use exactly the same thing for reflections, just a more advanded version of it. No game engine provides real reflections, unless it's a raytracing engine.

Ok, so here are "real" reflections from GP4 (2002, using DX7 afaik):



Looks pretty impressive. It shows that you don't need DX9/10 for such stuff, LFS could do it with DX8 as well. Although I don't know if a rewrite of the graphic engine is needed.

DirectX 8.0/8.0a
Most Notable New Feature: Shader Model 1.0, and 1.1 which introduced programmable pixel shaders (up to 12 instructions at a time) and vertex shaders. This version of DirectX is also used by Microsoft’s Xbox gaming console. (PS1.0 was never used)

DirectX 8.1
Most Notable New Feature: Pixel Shader 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 where pixel shaders can use up to 28 instructions at a time. Pixel Shader 1.4 was only utilized by the ATI Radeon 8500.

DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 2.0
Most Notable New Feature: More powerful pixel/vertex shaders thanks to Shader Model 2.0. Shader Model 2.0 supports a pixel shader length of up to 96 instructions. Also adds improvements to DirectPlay and several improvements to audio and video.

DirectX 9.0 Pixel Shader 2.0b
Most Notable New Feature: Used first on the ATI Radeon X600/700/800 series of GPUs. Pixel shader 2.0b supports more instructions (up to 1,536) and more temporary registers (32 versus 12). As well as a new facing register. 2.0b also supports geometry instancing.

DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 3.0
Most Notable New Feature: Shader Model 3.0 where pixel/vertex shaders support more instructions. Shader Model 3.0 also supports flow control/dynamic branching, which allows developers to add loops to their shaders, making programming easier. Used first on the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 series of GPUs.

Dx8 is not good(efficent) nowdays, i think lfs dont use any shaders which means its not using the most powerful part of the cards. DX10 uses unified shaders so it makes more faster/efficent than dx9 cards. I got nvidia 7600GT card which is old now but lfs always run at 80-100+fps(1680*1050 Full) -> time for a new engine

Btw i think we have to wait for a new graphics engine until S3, more people will buy it + the bigest "problem" is the new engine could let us night driving etc so the old dx8 cant stay longer(compatibility).

+ dx8 in 2009 is lol. He could hire a programmer for this.

Sry for my english.

Sorry but in this video appear the rein effect. If possible be a post-production viedo effect, but i dont think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLkLg9LSx3E

Quote from d_cury :

Sorry but in this video appear the rein effect. If possible be a post-production viedo effect, but i dont think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLkLg9LSx3E

That's from Lynce and Arias (as you can clearly see in the video). They make all kind of effects in videos and pictures.

Sad to say this, but this is a post-production effect

Quote from Whiskey :

That's from Lynce and Arias (as you can clearly see in the video). They make all kind of effects in videos and pictures.

Sad to say this, but this is a post-production effect

+1.

But in this case, Arias, only makes sound effects and music in the movies, but not in all cases.

XR GT Patch Z movie, for example. I didn't count with him.

-1

"...and pictures".

Obviously not. In this particular case, only me.

I think its funny that people say things are only possible in a specific version of Direct X when they have never even programed with it.

Direct X 7 can do reflections, hell, any renderer could do reflections if it is programed to.

Everybody is so stuck on this shader crap that they think you can't do anything cool without it. you can do alot of realy crazy effects without shaders, reflections being just one of them.