Quote from (SaM) :

I believe in myself, I have faith, respect and love for myself. This gives me strength and the power to fully love and respect others, and thus through my faith I create a Heaven on Earth.

Whilst I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree that both heaven and hell are very much a state of mind and reachable on this Earth, the analogy is purely metaphorical.

Sadly for my beliefs, some people really do believe that they are only on this Earth to score points for an afterlife, and the result of their beliefs is in my view damaging on others, their tax exemptions an injustice, and their power both unwarranted and unrepresentative.

I therefore think it is important, whilst acknowledging that self improvement, self awareness and self esteem are all vital ingrediants of a good and healthy life, it is very important to also realise that religion has nothing at all to do with these things. (despite claiming credit for them ie: "Jesus saved me").

to talk truth, i dont really know my religion. i do belive theres god,hell n'stuff. but i dont really ''serve'' god, i dont go to crurch, i dont pray, and dont really do the other stuff either

Quote from Becky Rose :

I therefore think it is important, whilst acknowledging that self improvement, self awareness and self esteem are all vital ingrediants of a good and healthy life, it is very important to also realise that religion has nothing at all to do with these things. (despite claiming credit for them ie: "Jesus saved me").

Absolutely. Having faith often is beneficial, but having faith in a superior (thus external) deity is only half way there. Faith in oneself is the holy grail.

If perhaps anyone misunderstood, I am 100% atheist.

Quote from IDUI :

On a more serious note: I think avoiding belief is impossible as a human. It seems to be a basic tool. Is it not belief that makes thoughts and images in our heads seem real? This is what makes superstition possible imo. To anticipate an event before it actually happens is a great asset, we just get carried away easily.
I think religion is only an indicator of how strong this ability is, non-religious people blindly believe in other things just like religious folk and not only when it comes to religious matters. I know I probably do as I have noticed this about myself on several occasions. Reevaluation is "the cure" though.

I think there's difference between believing in things that you've observed and things that you haven't. I'm not sure I'd call it "belief" if you're anticipating events by having ability to recognise patterns. I know the order in which traffic lights are light up by observing their behavior as I know the direction where sun is going to rise up next morning. Believing on the otherhand is little different, I believe that I have little bit of juice left in fridge but I'm not sure until I go and find out, after that I know.

As for thought processing, it's not made possible by belief/faith and it's actually the opposite way around. You can imagine things that you have not seen or even know to exist.

Just one thing. Why are you athiests well athiests?

Quote from GrIp DrIvEr :

Just one thing. Why are you athiests well athiests?

You have to learn to be Christian or Muslim or Jewish or anything else. This process is usually done with education by followers of said faiths onto the young at an impressionable age. For most people, this is why they have faith, it's what happened to me until I realised that it was Santa Claus for adults.

Initially after turning my back on Christianity I was atheist, but after a while I resolved my bitter hatred for what they'd done to me and concluded the much more sound principle of just not giving a damn about beliefs and where we all come from, thus found myself classified as agnostic.

To me atheism and agnosticism is little more than a literary excercise designed to create a mindset of putting non believers into boxe and labelling them in order to renounce them as a group. We get labelled with "science" and other stuff, and it's easy to deal with us because we're a group.

When really my beliefs probably match very few of my contemporary illuminaries on the subject.

Quote from GrIp DrIvEr :

Just one thing. Why are you athiests well athiests?

Because we're in the 21st century? And we've had the luck of getting a proper education (most I guess)?

I can't believe people still treat religion as a mystery. It's all so clear. Religions just start as sects from smart people that prey on the uncultivated and gullible for their profit. Okay there may be some that had good intentions at their core but somehow I doubt that they didn't get corrupted at some point or another. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that in 2000 years the prevalent religion in the world is Scientology. Christianism, isn't the first or the last religion to exist, and has NO more proof of existence than the previous or the last.

But then again, why would I look for proof when I have more than I can handle with science? It's all around us...That reminds me, next time I encounter an anti-scientist (how can i call them really?), I'm going to grab his laptop or iPhone or other piece of technologic equipment and samurai-smash it on their face.

And by the way, till I was 9-10 I was as religious as I could be, thanks to the pretty good attempt of indoctrination at school, but somehow the claims from the teacher that Metallica were ''satanists'' and I would go to hell if I listened to their music right before expelling their tape from the window kickstarted my brain into thinking for once for itself.

The facts are all there people, you won't arrive at a conclusion of course, but you'll certainly eliminate religion first.

Quote from GrIp DrIvEr :

Just one thing. Why are you athiests well athiests?

Actually, a quite hard one to answer, I haven't really thought about it...

But let's think back. Like most Austrians I was baptized as a Roman Catholic (allthough, the Austrian RCs are way less "religious fanatics" than, let's say, the clichée American Presbyterians are). For me it started back in primary school. I didn't really think much about it until the preperations for the First Communion began (I was 7 or 8 at that point). I thought it to be a stupid, needless ritual which I didn't really want to partake in, but was pressurized to do so, as there was no option to refuse it. Additionally, back then I could already spot the blatant inconsistencies of the Bible (God forgives everyone and is loving versus God who smites Sodom and Gomorrha and sends people to eternal suffering).
So, 7 years later, time cam for my Confirmation, the ritual where a youth becomes a grown up (at least to the church) and this time willfully accepts the Christian belief as his own (in opposition to the baptism, which you have no say in). I refused, and exited the church shortly after.

Quote from Becky Rose :

With guns?

/endirony

Nice idea but the romans tried the dagger and we all know how it ended

Quote from Becky Rose :

With all debates, make sure you are fighting on home turf. See i'll argue the bible and it's home turf to Christians, that's fine. But i'll argue one of the contradictions not the airy fairy thoughts presented here.

Airy fairy? that stuff was just an example of logical circles religious dogmas put you in - and they work to the intended effect. There are no contradictions in that because it's impossible to get outside its circularity, the only chance is to think out of the box, change the game field, so to speak. Maybe that was what you meant in the first place?

However if a person really believes, even pointing out contradictions won't help that much, you can't change a person's mind by just using logic. There are easier and more effective ways as the church knows well

Quote from Paranoid Android :

The facts are all there people, you won't arrive at a conclusion of course, but you'll certainly eliminate religion first.

Take a deep look at how people become over a certain age. You sure are young and don't think too often about your death. For many people there comes an age when they start to think about it and what will be next. That's a moment when they find their lost faith back... and that is just an example. There are many more reasons people go back to religions, most of the times when they are faced with the prospect of death, suffering and other unpleasant things...

This one's a beauty!

''Why atheists' arguments don't work''

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... eyfeo&feature=channel

The 4 most evil people in the history of human history.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Could God create a stone so heavy he can't pick it up?

Man has made things so heavy he couldn't pick up... Look at a building for example... A stone a man can pickup but when many of them are pieced together... he cannot.

I don't think we understand God fully.

Quote from runeman :

Man has made things so heavy he couldn't pick up... Look at a building for example... A stone a man can pickup but when many of them are pieced together... he cannot.

I don't think we understand God fully.

We don't think we're omnipotent.

Quote from GrIp DrIvEr :

Just one thing. Why are you athiests well athiests?

OK.


I was baptized (against my will)* to evangelical lutheran church, when I was 5 or 6 I made a small prayer - a small, not greedy, maybe tiny bit selfless, - but one all omnipotent kind god wouldn't do in a heart beat. Guess what happened? Guess what happened to my sceptical believing at that point? As I got older and learned about the happenings in history and current world events during me growing up, it only made my non-believing stronger. And finally shortly after I could legally denounce my faith on my own without my parents say-so I did.



*I'd like much more the way I suggested to my sister when she got her firstborn, don't choose your children's religion, raise them ethically and teach them moral and let them choose the thing/religion/god/gods/fairies/pick one they them self want to believe in.(Nope, she cave in to the tradition :P) That's why later in life I've come to appreciate (if an atheist can appreciate religions) Buddism and Pentecostalism among others. Because, as I've learned; Buddism teaches not to trust the teachers but trust your own judgement. Pentecostalism: the children should choose themself when they're older if they want to join. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote from runeman :

Man has made things so heavy he couldn't pick up... Look at a building for example... A stone a man can pickup but when many of them are pieced together... he cannot.

No-one claimed humans were omnipotent

Quote from duke_toaster :

No-one claimed humans were omnipotent

Spuit elf!