Hi, there!

I has been some time since we did any open wheeler racing and I believe the time has come to get back to the old habits, but to try something new as well.

I'd like to start a FOX series, very similar to what we did with FBM first in demo and then in S2 last year. The event format was good, I think: Once a week, two mid-length races (25 minutes each), one pit stop required with all tyres changed, one track, 1st race start grid according to qualification results, 2nd race some kind of reversed order of race 1 results.

FOX is a nice car, very similar to FBM, controllable even by average drivers (like me), yet fast enough even for pretty long tracks. Also it has been very popular recently, so we may as well ride the wave.

Everything is opened to suggestions: race format, tracks, day of week. I suggest we use some weekday, not Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. Many series are held on the mentioned days, ours may be burried among them. My initial idea is Thursday, around 20:00 UTC (i.e. 21:00 WET [London], 22:00 CET [Paris, Prague], etc...).

I believe we could have some test races first, to give everyone time to adjust to FOX. I'm happy to announce the 1st test race would take part on Friday, April 3rd at 20:00 UTC on the [AA] AirAttack Racing server.

There'll be some updates to Airio to manage the races, such as pit windows (when you can make a valid pit stop, say between 10th and 20th minute of the race), required pit works (valid will be only pit stops with all tyres changed and car refuelled). Also the series points will be available directly in Airio and there should be some Web statistics as well, but it requires some time to polish all this.

Enough talk, see you on the mentioned server whenever you feel like giving FOX a try. I'll be also sending personal messages to all the people taking part in our FBM series, so sorry for spamming in case you read this post earlier. Take care!

Not the racing type. But meeting people and race is always fun. I'll see if the FOX is handy for KB and i might join.

Sounds good, 9pm UK is a better time for me, haven't driven a FOX for a while so need to get some practice in.

Sounds Great Worry,
The AW guys seem to run the FOX a bunch and hopefully we can get a bunch of those guys.

I'd like to race FE2R (Fern Bay Green Rev) for the first. I think 25 laps there should calm down the guys that are running it mostly flat out.

Good to have the series back!

3rd.

.. Fox = Formula XR? I'm still S1, so this one is not for me.
(But a good reason tho rethink buying a S2...). :-)

Sign-ups?

Sounds good to me - been playing with the FOX lately and I like it (yup - controllable and well-behaved even for mediocre drivers like me ).
Friday's aren't generally so good for me (still a chance I'll make it tomorrow though).

Maybe on a Tuesday? Yup I'd defo like this

Great stuff! I'm gone for a couple of days so unfortunately won't be able to make the test race. Probably for the best as I'm pretty rusty with the FOX! Looking forward to picking it up again though. Tuesdays would work out best for me when things get rolling, but I'll try to free up some time on whatever day is decided upon.

Thanks EQ.

Hi and I'm glad the announcement generated some response. Yes, JMiquel, FOX is an S2 car, sorry, I did not realize you have S1 only. Sign-ups are not necessary currently, they may be implemented later on if we run out of grid positions.

I see Thursday and Friday does not fit some people, Tuesday is really bad for me, I guess that leaves us with Monday or Wednesday. If the 1st test race goes reasonably well on Friday (today), we may do one more test race on Monday and then settle for a weekday.

Generally about the races: Our aim is not to have full grid with the best people around, although of course that would also be nice. What we had last year and what we want in this series is some nice racing mainly for fun, the prestige coming later on in its natural way. We're open to all reasonable people that realize crashes simply happen and can live with that without accusations and bad language, which is not tolerated.

For some basic/preliminary rules check out this thread: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=48958. There may be some small changes, but the framework stays put.

See you later today at [AA] AirAttack Racing server. Note that there is usually car reset allowed which may exclude the server from the list of displayed ones unless you turn on the appropriate option. You may also connect directly using the name, that should always work. In case the server is in private mode and requires password, try to use end.

I may be miss some qualifying but will be there...
3rd

I will be joining aswell. My first racing event ever so dont expect anything but caughtious driving just to finnish. See you there.

4th

Just a few comments and then I'm off to bed:

1) The server was private during the whole race, the connected player simply knows the password, he'll be invited to other races.

2) Midrace join was strange thing, will check what went wrong in config files.

3) Auto-restart was a big error on my part, I forgot to turn off all checks, fortunately no one was spectated. I'll add the necessary command to the config files so that it does not happen again.

4) Chatting during race is prohibited, but I personally feel that saying sorry or putting up a few smileys is not that big spam. Because we do not use any kind of race manager, anyone may block messages.

5) Time-based racing is one of the main features of the series and I certainly do not want to exchange it for standard and boring preset number of laps. It saves me from calculating lap counts for different tracks and it also in fact makes it easier for the players to choose fuel strategy. As we found out earlier, racing for fixed time plus one lap means approximately the same fuel consumption in each and every race. The only problem is I have no idea how much fuel was left in my tank today, so that I may use appropriately lower percentage next time, on a different track.

Thanks everyone for taking part in the first test race. I plan to organize one more and then we may be ready to go. Or we could have a few more "preliminary" races to find some new nice people to join us. Well, I really think that may be the better approach, give it some time, practicing with FOX on 3 or 4 more different tracks, gaining new people, maybe even changing the race day/time, and only then start the series. Thanks again, see you soon!

I could only do the first race today due to other commitments but it was fun, although I am still getting to grips with the FOX. I need to find a setup that is not constantly trying to swap ends on me!

I'm not sure about the reverse grid for the second race, being slower myself I really don't relish the thought of being at the front for Race 2. Just causes too many possible accidents. EQ, is it possible for Airio to calculate a grid for race 2 based on the fastest laps of Race 1? The CTRA system used to do something like this and I am more comfortable with earning a front row grid slot rather than being given one. I have been on Conedodgers Skill League recently and even using that system of Race 2 based on Race 1 finishing order would be better in my view.

Otherwise I like the format, if it goes to Wednesdays not sure if I could do them all but I can try.

Yes, it is a good point about the reversed grid. Simple reversal is not ideal in these series, especially when there are more drivers around with different skill levels. Still, I'd like to have partially reversed order, say first 8 finishers of the previous race, the rest of the field may be ordered by lap time, Airio can do that easily. Basically any combination of result/time is possible for race 2 order.

Also I'm not absolutely sure about having 2 races for 25 minutes + 1 lap each. Last year we started with one long race (about 60 minutes), then went to 2 races to give everyone a 2nd chance to score, now I'm thinking about 3 or even 4 yet shorter races. What I certainly do not want to lose is racing for time plus one lap for the leader and one pitstop required. But for the pitstop to have any meaning I feel the race lenght should not go below 20 or maybe 15 minutes. The options then would be to have 3 races for 20 minutes each or 4 races by 15 minutes.

In any case the whole event would take slightly more time, my estimate is total of 90 minutes including 10 or 15 minutes initial qualification and short breaks between the races. If we go for shorter races, there'll be also lower penalty for car reset, say simply 45 seconds or S+G. Your comments and opinions are welcome, just as track suggestions.

Right, nice driving, Inter. I think all the tracks with FOX will be new or almost new for many of us. Because of this there's high possibility to crash in the races. And that is also one of the reasons why 3 or even 4 shorter races might actually suit the series better. We started last year with FBM@BL1 for 45 laps (almost 1 hour), single endurance race. But we all knew the combo very, very well. Then we went to S2 tracks with FBM and halved the race length. But again, we all knew FBM reasonably well. This year I feel lost with FOX, it is a very new car to me and to many others as well. So shortening the races might help again, because it means less frustration in case something goes very wrong for someone, having 2 or 3 more tries in the upcoming races (and less time to wait).

EDIT: I'd also like to hear your opinions about some other matters I'm considering:

1) Require symmetric wheels setups, which will make the races less setup-dependent, it may also help to ballance the field better. I think even LFS devs see that car setup options are too variable and often decide race results. I guess the upcoming Scirocco will support only symmetric wheels and much less setup options. I really think this could simplify matters for us.

2) We could use some kind of dynamic handicaps based on past race results, e.g. race winner must add 2 percent of intake restriction etc. I know there are other series where this principle is applied successfully. To make this fully automatic it will require further Airio development though, but it is one of my priority requests to implement so we may put it to use as well.

3) I think we should use layous (additional tyres) and try to make the tracks so that no extensive cutting is possible, so that the racing line is very close to what is required by HLVC. Take for example the 1st chicane on FE2R. I saw people flying there over grass but I think we should not allow this. I realize putting tyres there may cause more crashes, but not having the tyres there would lead to crashes after the next turn when even the not so good cutters try to take the chicane at high speed. And they surely will.

Quote from EQ Worry :

So shortening the races might help again, because it means less frustration in case something goes very wrong for someone, having 2 or 3 more tries in the upcoming races (and less time to wait).

Mmm, mixed feelings about having lots of races. If it increases the total time window for the racing to 90 minutes plus some qualifying, it might rule some people out (maybe me). I think last time we used 30 qually + a notional 60 racing (which often ended up being 70+ for the racing, but of course you can turn up a bit late for qually and still get a laptime in and then race. 3 x (20 minutes+1lap), with 5 minutes gap will probably mean about 75 minutes overall, which is close to the highish end of what I personally could take.

Quote :

1) Require symmetric wheels setups

Sounds good. Simplifies life, rarely a big problem anyway (unless we go oval racing ).

Quote :

2) We could use some kind of dynamic handicaps

Yes, would make life much more interesting. Not sure whether intake restriction only, or some mix of power & weight restrictions would be better. Probably lots of experience out there with handicapping though?

Quote :

3) I think we should use layous (additional tyres) and try to make the tracks so that no extensive cutting is possible, so that the racing line is very close to what is required by HLVC.

Well, yes, probably a useful idea in general (maybe with some no-go zones (auto-spectate) thrown in for good measure for the really drastic cutting). But I had a look at my FE2R line, in my hotlap, and I use a bit more grass than is possible with the FE2R tyres layout I saved to disk from AA last night. I also checked the WR hotlap and it uses even more grass than I did - I've attached a screenshot (I think! my first attachment on this forum ). Maybe about a half a tyre-stack less would permit the WR line to be used (which of course satisfies the HLVC test).

Many many thanks again to Worry for having the motivation to hold another series. I was a bit lost after the last one ended, and fell into bad company (CTRA, lots of fun, but look how that ended ). Perhaps this forum should be renamed now?

Thank a lot, Neil, for your response!

1) Number of races and race time. Currently we have 2 races for 25 minutes, each race taking approx. 27 minutes (with the additional lap). If we went for 3 races by 18 minutes, the total racing time would be approximatey the same. The qualification will be much shorter than 30 minutes - 15 mins is max, maybe just 10 to speed up the whole event. Overall from the quali start to 3rd race finish incl. all breaks it should not take more than 80 to 90 minutes, of which about 60 to 70 are spent by real racing.

2) Symm wheels maybe just introduce one more restriction many people out there would not be willing to accept. Also I noticed we share setups a lot, so in our races this is not a big issue.

3) Dynamic handicaps may be nice addition to ballance the field, but this would require further development and also careful thinking.

4) I'm surprised the hotlap you captured passes HLVC test, but seeing this I think removing one stack of tyres from our NoCut layout is good idea. The restricted zones you suggest does not appeal to me much, I have to say. There's a real danger of unintentional mistake resulting in spectating. Anyway, we always race with no checks running - people are not spectated for idling (getting out of gravel) or speeding in pits.

5) I felt we need to start a new series soon, otherwise our nice group of people formed last year may dissolve. I'm very sure I will not be able to take care of all the races or presenting subsequent statistics, so any help in this respect is welcome. 3rdParty already offered help and I'm grateful for that. I just wanted to kick-start the series (and FOX looks like a viable alternative to FBM), I may withdraw from it a bit later on.

6) I have already asked Victor to change the subforum title to simple AirAttack Racing Series, leaving out the FBM part.

Server: [AA] AirAttack Racing
Day/time: Wednesday, April 8th, 20:00 UTC
Track/car: FE2R with FOX
Format: Qualification 10 to 15 minutes, 3 races by 18 minutes plus 1 lap each, total event time with short breaks approx 90 minutes
Sign-ups: No sign-ups necessary

Ok Wednesday sounds good. Thanks for putting together Friday Worry.

Cheers.

From my (organizer) perspective, FOX test race 2 was an utter disaster.

1) Due to family matters I connected 15 minutes late, just when qualification finished. I found 5 other people connected (with one more coming a bit later). With about 40 personal invitations sent out, mostly to people that are spending a lot of time on AA servers or took part in the FBM series last race, that was a deep disappointment. Sure, I received some apologizing messages, but still I missed quite a handful of names. Note that we're running a loose series, without sign-ins required, but on the other hand I expect everyone that has the chance to come to be there. If such low turnout happens one or two more times, there'll simply be no series.

2) After a while and by a pure coincidence I learned that the layout prepared for the track was cleared 45 minutes before the qualification started by one of our limited admins. Now I have to say that made me (and still makes me) furious. WTF, MAN! There's been people practicing on the track with the layour prepared for several days, almost a week, and you delete it for a whim of another player that thinks "it may cause crashes"? Sure it may, just as outright cutting by flying over grass may cause crashes. I consulted the layout with several people and this was what we agreed on. Hell, I cant say how agry I still am. Last minute practicing and the whole qualification thus happened on an invalid track. When the layout was loaded back, the qualification results were deleted and race 1 started basically in random order. But with just 6 cars it really made no difference.

3) FE2R is a track where even small mistakes lead to disater - car toppled and broke (after 1st chicane), car locked in sand (after downhill section). Even with one car reset allowed only 3 cars finished in every one of the three races. Especially sad were the crashes in turn 1 in lap 1. We all ned to realize it is not possible to go there (on any track) at max speed, it is necessary to be prepared for sliding and crashing cars and take evasive manouvres for which sufficient distance is necessary. But overall we saw some nice performances and some deep troubles as well.

4) Next test or preliminary race takes place on Saturday, April 11th, 18:00 UTC at [AA] AirAttack Racing server. We go for a spacey track this time, it will be KY3 or KY3R (maybe the R version, because we did KY3 with FBM already). There'll be 3 races for 15 minutes plus one lap each. The track will be ready together (maybe) with a simple layout (a few tyre stacks put here and there) later today, Thursday. You're welcome to connect to the server and try at least a few laps to know the track better. I myself did about 5 laps on KY3R so I have still much to learn.

Take care and see you soon! One positive thing: These are after all only test races so it is good to experience all the bad things now and not when (if) the series is under way.

Could not join... because my football is on every Wend...

Oh dear, totally forgot this. Is it every wednesday EQ? Post-it is my friend.

EQ, from my point of view all was quite good. As always you found some "bugs" there, but now you know what to expect (yeah, I can say that now Even my fatal crash with Lagger in second race was fun - it was compensated few good laps after all races. Cheers mate

Bummer, I'll miss the race tomorrow as well (won't be back for another few days)... Oh well.

As for the crashing, must say I was a bit worried that would happen.
I had got "reasonably" reliable at taking T1 on FE2R, but my failure rate was probably still over 10% when taking it flat, and even when I was deliberately being careful (and lifting) I still messed it up now and then. So I have real doubts I'd have made it through a race without a T1 prang...
(Very rarely hit the sandtrap later on though, but wow, it's near-impossible to get out of, unlike most in the game!)
I hadn't really raced much on it (as opposed to qually) so I have no idea where the passing places are. (Note to self: must try to race a few times on a track before race night in future.)
But sorry to hear the racing was a bit of a let-down anyway.

Hoping that the series keeps going...
(I seem to recall that KY3 is quite a lot more forgiving, so that should help !)