FBM only has like 200bhp or something and with slick tyres it'd take alot of stick to move them. Apart from 1st and midrange 2nd you couldn't really do it.
yeah i just downloaded the latest ctdp 2006 mod. Now i just have to wait for my replacement wheel to get to me to try it out. What do you guys think of the formula nippon 2008 mod?
I was having fun racing in a VLN 2005 league. unfortunately i had to drop out due to school, but was great having cars of such varying performance on the same track. made for some hairy moments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikaponthus View Post
"Hardcore" driving simulators are, and always will be, a niche market. I think even half the people who play LFS completely miss the point.
What is "the point"?
I play (yes, I said play, LFS is a game to me) LFS for 4 years and used chase view all the time. I even used keyboard in the whole first year. Yet I still had a lot of fun with LFS in those 4 years and will continue to do so.
I don't think that I missed "the point" of LFS.
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The official LFS IRC channel - #liveforspeed on GameSurge BY SR zuegnimod
i only want to comment on the kb and mouse users and chase view people, and also poeple that play on the wheels{your inside the car but there is no body just the wheels are seen}. let me first say play how you want but to drive this game like that is icky to me like they say on their home page
"LFS S2 is a serious racing simulator. No arcade modes, no steering aids - YOU have to do the driving[well they did put abs on cars eww]. It is therefore highly recommended to drive the sim with a steering wheel, because even though you can use keyboard and/or mouse, a wheel is what you use in a real car, so a wheel should be used in a serious racing simulator. Especially when going online, where fast reactions are required.
i know having fun is whats its all about and poeple have fun using the wheel/chase view but its a cheat really...why? becuase you cant do that in a real car it makes it more acrade type feeling yeah you might be faster and see more but again well whatever....ima leave that alone
those using mouse/kb should be palying on mouse/kb only servers[if you cant afford a wheel i understand jsut saying] or something becuase you cant turn lock to lock in .1 seconds with a proper wheel again whatever but i will agree people miss the point if they use these things it meant to be a serious sim and that takes away from the vision well...what the hell am i saying the poeple making this "sim" made it possible so i guess they are putting in things counterintuitive to their OWN mission statement. sorry about the 30 seconds you wasted reading this just like to talk .
If they want it to be more serious they should take these things out that is one thing[there are others] i like about iracing there is only in car view and you cant drive with a mouse or kb i guess they wanted it to be serious... more serious than lfs.ANd the community shows that as a whole more so than lfs. [i know there are good people here but there are more knuckleheads also]
Give me a steering wheel and I'm surely going to use it on LFS. Otherwise, don't tell people who can't get a wheel to play on separate servers. I play with mouse but there's no point on turning lock to lock in 0.1s, it's plain ridiculous.
About the chase view, even though I don't think it's realistic, I can't see any problem at all on people using it. Actually I think it makes driving much more difficult than on cockpit view. Now, using cockpit view with wheels only is very weird, and I don't like it. I'd never use it. But people have this option by default, so I don't mind it at all too
i didnt tell anyone to do anything[i said should do a suggestion] actually if you read the quote you used from me i said i understand if you cant get a wheel. but with a mouse you can drive the car in a way that you cant with a wheel with a kb youll just be in the way yeah sure there are some idiot savants out there that can drive with these things but they are far and few inbetween. about chase view its only harder if your not used to it some people that console race alot are used to it and can drive fast and you can see things you normally would not in the IN car view.
And i also say the developers made it this way.... kinda wierd aint it? a serious sim with kb mouse and chase and wheel views you can use during a race aint to serious IMHO. ANy time im in a server and see kb stablize,brakehelp,anything like that im staying away from that driver. there should be no brake help[accordingg to the lfs homepage you should do the driving so why all the help to drive?]. My point is these things shouldnt be IMO
. they are there so what can you do .......
I love lfs just saying most bad drivers i run into are kb or mouse users. Sure more poeple can try lfs with kb and mouse but do we really want these people to play on s2 servers on our side door? lol. i think this is the only "serious" sim that you can drive without a wheel{kb,mouse}. there is a way to filter server side who can join maybe i need to do that like NARA filters out non g25,porsche wheel users. not trying to start a big thing and i thought i said the previous post in a light hearted tone have fun on the track.
PS i started on a gamepad [demo] that lasted for about 5 days maybe a week i understood that i needed a wheel to get a full experience and drive properly. I wouldnt buy s2 without a wheel nor would i try to race in s2 with a kb or mouse becuase i know i would just be a hazard. again some people can drive mouse but they are far and few inbetween. and turning lock to lock in .1 seconds does happen to catch oversteer , ive seen some very wierd things with mouse users you CAN[not saying you have to] exploit it to drive in a unnatural way.
You've said you understand, but you think there should be separate servers for non-wheel and wheel players... So, the former doesn't have any chances to play anyway?
One can't brake, press gas or use the clutch smoothly with a mouse or a keyboard. It's also not possible to feel the force feedback of the car. People who use mouse also don't know how much they are turning the wheel until they see it on the screen. So that's not much of an advantage, don't you agree? And it gets even worse on the keyboard, regardless of "keyboard help".
About the assists: wheel drivers can use autoclutch or clutch button too, as well as brake help, ABS, TC etc. Besides, they do exist on real life, and since this is a simulator, it should include them too (except for some of them such as brake help, but they are really necessary depending on the controller people use).
About the views again... What do you say about people who have triple displays, so they can see both sides of the car without pressing any buttons? What about TrackIR? And lower/higher FOV than the default? Even though I play with cockpit camera (without the HUD), I don't mind people playing in a different way. If you don't want this to happen, you can always play on servers with "cockpit view: only" or servers that autokick on chase camera (there are servers like that), etc.
I used to keep tapping my mouse buttons to press and release gas and brake smoothly, but I could have bought 4 more S2 licenses with the money I spent getting new mouses because of that, so I prefer using brake help and tapping the buttons less times. Actually "brake help" isn't much of a help too, it just releases brake after the wheel locks and then press it again, repeating this until the tyre stop locking (not something someone would purposely do on a race).
The devs include these options for compatibility, to make the LFS public wider. It's not because I don't have a wheel that I wouldn't like LFS. Back in 2006 I played LFS with keyboard for the whole year, yet managed to have "low" PBs on BL1+XRT combo. (1:26:65 was my PB if I'm not mistaken, and I had constant times). Then I started using mouse and it was a lot better. Although it was easier to get lower times, I never managed to get 1:23 as some other people could (maybe not enough practice).
But if there were no support for mouse or keyboard I would be completely unable to play LFS for a very long time, and would probably forget it completely rather than purchasing a wheel just to play it. Actually, the main reason I managed to bring many of my friends to LFS was because everyone could play on it without changing anything on their PC, specially keyboard and mouse. And even playing with these controllers, LFS was amazing for us back then, we really had A LOT of fun on it.
This seriously sounds like bullying
A new G25 wheel costs BRL $1,200 on the cheapest shops. It's still too much. This means 3,5 times the minimum wage of the country, or USD $547 / BGP £370 / EUR $419
I don't know how much it costs in your country, but I'm pretty sure it should be a lot cheaper. If it was cheaper here, I'd sure get it too. Meanwhile, I'm going to spend my money with more important things. I can play with mouse, so that's not a problem.
Anyone who plays S2 on keyboard, mouse, gamepad or any other controller has paid the same thing for LFS you and me had, and they have the same right to play it just like anyone else regardless of what they use to play, so I think this point of yours in particular is invalid.
Some ponctuation would help that
It sure is better and more realistic to play with a wheel, and I would undoubtedly play with one if I had it, but for now I can't, so... (shall I make a donate button? )
By the way, my post wasn't intended to be rude (if it seemed rude for you), and I hope the emoticons I used would help making it clear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpCoChit2ak HistorX will be back this year with improved everything. I might make some more LFSers buy rFactor.. You can only imagine what will happen with rFactor 2.0, lets hope LFS gets some more improvements before that happens and the world will be a happier place.
After many years of trying to find something about rFactor I like,
I finally got it set up with the HistorX mod and got the FFB tuned to my liking.
Yes. rFactor has one good mod.(i've tried to like so many of the others... really i tried)
Amongst all that utter crap the HistoriX mod is a little gem. I had a blast with it tonight.
I still thinks the physics are pretty poor in comparison to LFS/iRacing/nKPro but i can honestly say that's the first time I've actually enjoyed an ISI based sim.
EDIT:- (actually, now i think about it..it's not so much the physics being poor as the feedback, even with realfeel, still doesn't do it justice. I still get the grip,grip,grip > unrecoverable spin that you never felt coming, that i always get with ISI sims.)
There are some settings to tweak to allow you to have exactly the force drop off and balance to enable you to have exactly the feeling you wish for when at the limit of the grip. Although a little more complex than LFS's fit and forget, it is infinitely tunable to give exactly the FFB you wish. Once set perfectly, its pretty amazing to be honest. You can feel everything, where as in LFS, you get very little actual feedback, more weight that anything..
Most important of these is -
steer force grip weight - by default this is usually set to 0.4 and should be more 0.9 or .089 something like this, this sets how much of the tyre you feel through the wheel..
There is another setting, which determines how much feel you get from the front tyres versus rear set this to be nearly all to the front.
These two things will give you much better feel from the controller.
At the end of the day I don't believe FFB settings are the solution. RealFeel does a good job, its just a case of getting used to things a bit more and making sure you don't overdrive so much, its more sensitive than LFS where overdriving is easier to get away with.
It has to be something to do with the FFB if it's not the physics Niels. I don't think I'm overdriving...i just never feel when i'm on/going over the limit, which LFS/iRacing and especially nKPro tell me perfectly, with no mucking about with settings.
This is the one thing thats pissed me off over and over again with anything rFactor, you spend more time fiddling with stuff,trying to get it to feel right.
None of the other three sims i mentioned have that problem. Plug in wheel and drive. They all tell me what the car is doing perfectly. I'm still having to guess with rFactor, even with the good mod.
when i switched from lfs to rfactor, i also had problems with the snappy oversteer behaviour of rfactor.
it was very frustrating and is still terrible in many mods. but on the other hand i think that the slicked cars in lfs are way too easy to drive. that's why it's so difficult to adjust to lfs.
i think the historix mod is already very accurate physicswise. don't forget, these are really old race cars .
there are a lot great mods out there, historic gt is not the only one and i don't think that setting up rfactor is that difficult. on the other hand, i am used to adapt to cars/simulations/setups rather then adjust cars/simulations/setups to my driving style.
So were the cars in GPL, I never had a problem with that
I have to take issue with that. HistoriX is by far the best mod, The Caterham mod is very good... and that it. I've tried nearly every mod there is for rfactor and they are generally garbage. You'll never convince me otherwise. But even with the "good mods" still just don't get the feel with them that i get from iRacing or nKPro (lets leave LFS out of this as it is to forgiving) There is something inherently wrong with the way the tires feel on the road in all ISI based sims, no matter how well made they are.
Im having fun with the HistoriX mod, dont get me wrong, its a fantastic bit of work, but it still feels wrong. I dont care how accurate the data is that you put in, the underlying engine has issues that will never make for a convincing experience. imho of course iRacing and nKPro have set a standard of car feel that is way above anything rFactor can produce. I just hope rFactor2 can close the gap somewhat.
It is all in the controller settings in this SIM that feel you need for on the limit driving is all in the controller settings, whether default, RealFeel or LEO FFB is being used..
We switched from LFS to rF to race in the FSR F1 World Championship, I can tell you, it takes as much work in the controller settings to optimize them as it does in set up's.
However, once you get RealFeel working perfectly for you, the feel is really, very, very good. I do not use it myself, preffering LEO FFB which works very well with real suspension models such as the CTDP06 F1 mod we use.
Yes, but not so much a rF problem as problems with the MOD's and suspension designs there in. Unfortunately the quality differs greatly.
Stick it out, tune it to your liking with a understanding of what does what and it feels amazing!
. No arcade modes, no steering aids - YOU have to do the driving
, because even though you can use keyboard and/or mouse, a wheel is what you use in a real car, so a wheel should be used in a serious racing simulator. Especially when going online, where fast reactions are required.
Actually "brake help" isn't much of a help too, it just releases brake after the wheel locks and then press it again, repeating this until the tyre stop locking (not something someone would purposely do on a race).
