Yeah, a weird question.

How do race officials decide the race finishing order for drivers who retire on the same lap? For example, look at these results from Canada 2008, Kimi and Lewis retired on the same lap, but how was it decided that Kimi finished ahead of Lewis?

My instinct tells me that the drivers race position on the last lap they completed is used, but I've been told that the actual distance traveled is the deciding factor. However, I can't believe that the later is the case, as there would be ambiguities if two drivers retired through colliding (which happens a lot), and also before modern timing techniques it would have been extremely hard (nee impossible) for any accuracy in this regard.

So, to summarise my question, if multiple drivers retire on the same lap, how do they decide their final positions in the race results?

I'd always just assumed that if two drivers retired on the same lap the one who went the furthest was the one marked ahead. So if two cars crash and one winds up 10 feet further down the track, it would be the one to finish ahead.

In that instance, Kimi crossed the timing beam before Lewis to complete his 18th lap, thus is classified above Hamilton.

Further to that, at Brands Hatch at the weekend in Saturday's PCCGB race, Reidy and some American numpty came to grief at Paddock Hill, see attached picture. The race result puts Roszenweig ahead of Reid despite the opposite being true in terms of the cars positions. However, Roszenweig was ahead at the start of lap 15 therefore finishes ahead.

HTH

Quote from MAGGOT :

I'd always just assumed that if two drivers retired on the same lap the one who went the furthest was the one marked ahead. So if two cars crash and one winds up 10 feet further down the track, it would be the one to finish ahead.

Yeah but that's not very scientific, and also what if one car went flying and happened to land slightly ahead of the other, that's just too random.

Quote from boothy :

In that instance, Kimi crossed the timing beam before Lewis to complete his 18th lap, thus is classified above Hamilton.

I do remember that race, so maybe not the best example (it was the first one I found with two drivers retiring on the same lap), but I'm talking in general and not in any specific instance. But yes, Kimi crossed the line ahead on the last completed lap, but is the same metric used in all retirements?

Edit: I know this question might seem a little petty, but there could be an instance where only eight cars pass the 90% mark (and become eligible for points) and two of them crash into each other at the end of the last lap, so there must be a system to decide the scoring.

Quote from DarkTimes :

Edit: I know this question might seem a little petty, but there could be an instance where only eight cars pass the 90% mark (and become eligible for points) and two of them crash into each other at the end of the last lap, so there must be a system to decide the scoring.

I think to finish a car has to cross the line after the chequered flag though, simply doing the minimum distance to score points won't count.

Not if you have lapped cars behind you, you'd still have finished more laps and therefore more race distance. You definitely don't need to see the flag to score points.

Quote from DarkTimes :

Not if you have lapped cars behind you, you'd still have finished more laps and therefore more race distance. You definitely don't need to see the flag to score points.

Exception, under ACA rules (Le Mans) you must pass the chequered flag to be classified as a finisher. You could theoretically be 20 laps ahead of P2 at 24 hours, but fail to finish your last lap and you are classified as a retirement...

Additionally the ACA rules originally awarded the victory to the car which travels the furthest, meening that a car lower down the grid can cross the line 2nd and still win. This happened to Ford who did the first formation finish and was a huge scandal at the time. I'm not sure if that rule still stands I suspect it has been changed.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Additionally the ACA rules originally awarded the victory to the car which travels the furthest, meening that a car lower down the grid can cross the line 2nd and still win. This happened to Ford who did the first formation finish and was a huge scandal at the time. I'm not sure if that rule still stands I suspect it has been changed.

Theoretically qualifying last would be a good strategy then.

Quote from DarkTimes :

Not if you have lapped cars behind you, you'd still have finished more laps and therefore more race distance. You definitely don't need to see the flag to score points.

I thought that too, but again using a RL example, in the F Renault race 1 at Brands, car 12 retired at Druids on the final lap. I thought he would be a lap down, but the results classify him as having retired - so I dont know, will have to find more examples to be sure

Hmm, well yeah, if they retired on the last lap they should show as +1 laps in the results, shouldn't they? My, this is confusing.

Well, regardless, I think I've got a pretty clear picture on how to go about doing this now. In my own tests sorting the drivers by their position on the last lap they completed seems to give me good results, and in my mind that's a fair way to sort them, so I'm going to stick with that.

It will be interesting to keep an eye on future races I see to try and spot any more accurate patterns.

IIRC it's decided by the last lap.

so, if you retired in lap 18, you'll only finished 17.
if someone else retires too in lap 18, the one who began lap 18 first will be classified in front of another.

Post Scriptum: I made a little post about this regarding a bug in LFS (bugs - program section)

Quote from boothy :

I thought that too, but again using a RL example, in the F Renault race 1 at Brands, car 12 retired at Druids on the final lap. I thought he would be a lap down, but the results classify him as having retired - so I dont know, will have to find more examples to be sure

[stupid theory]I think that that order of classification just depends on the regulations of the series. Formula 1 calssifies those who have completed 90% of the race, right? Probably because the F Renault series have a low number of laps per race, they might have not adopted that rule, so if you retire on the final lap, tough luck, you're out. [/stupid theory]
btw, no, I didn't take a look at that link on your quote, sorry if my post becomes somewhat even more stupid because of it.

As boothy said, it goes by your last lap.

I do however think that in some cases they break it down to sectors. IE, if the leader of a race brakes between the S/F and S1, and 2nd place brakes between S2 and S3, 2nd gets the position over the leader. If that is true, I don't know why it wouldn't be based off distance...

I might actually google this one when I get out of class.

Just confirmed... It's based on laps, not sectors.