May I ask. You´re statement here would be made from a teenagers POV or a parents POV ?
May I ask. You´re statement here would be made from a teenagers POV or a parents POV ?
which bit of that the kid would have been hit by the teacher first did you not understand?
any normal parent would do all in his power (legal of course) to make sure that idiot never gets the chance to stand in front of a class of children ever again
any normal parent would do all in his power (legal of course) to make sure that idiot never gets the chance to stand in front of a class of children ever again
From a teenagers POV and it was 100% sarcasm.
Now my real POV is this. I don't agree with violence against children, even if they hit someone. However, the little tap on the butt which makes kids cry from shock rather then pain is needed sometimes imo. My 5 year old neice's attitude is pretty bad and we don't hit her or anything obviously but if it was my kid she'd have a little tap on the butt a couple of times. By that I don't mean hitting the kid till he can't stand up anymore. Its the kinda taps that just take a kid by shock and makes him cry and regret what he did without actually being in pain.
Now my real POV is this. I don't agree with violence against children, even if they hit someone. However, the little tap on the butt which makes kids cry from shock rather then pain is needed sometimes imo. My 5 year old neice's attitude is pretty bad and we don't hit her or anything obviously but if it was my kid she'd have a little tap on the butt a couple of times. By that I don't mean hitting the kid till he can't stand up anymore. Its the kinda taps that just take a kid by shock and makes him cry and regret what he did without actually being in pain.
Well, I like what dougie is thinking, but still you shouldn't force someone to do "volunteer" work for even 26 seconds. At least you aren't slaves like some people say you are.
Here's my standpoint on it.
Firstly, let me state the fact I work for NO MONEY. I do the SAME JOB AS THE NEXT TOM, DICK OR HARRY, and I work IN THE SAME CONDITIONS, FOR THE SAME TIME to the SAME STANDARD as anyone else.
The only difference is I don't get A PAYCHECK, I get £30 A WEEK. Now, I work about 31 hours a week. That's 3 seperate 9 hour days a week, and give or take 3 hours at College. Although I'm supposed to get my travel costs payed, this doesn't often happen. I'm given a bonus depending on whether I 'behave well' at the college. Bear in mind, this bonus is nothing to do with the quality of the work I do, while at work. Pointless, don't you agree?
Now, I used to work at Sainsburys, and then at the local bike dealer. Both of these were fully paid positions. That's how life works, isn't it? You do a days work, you're tired, worn out, but you get paid, so you can spend some money and enjoy life.
Now, if you work for no money, where's the encouragement? The kid thinks "Ok, well I've done a days work, and what have I got to show for it?" Being able to walk around, looking down at people, saying "Haha peasant, I saved an African Honey Badger today" doesn't pay the bills, nor does it pay for the night out. FORCING people to do 'voluntary' work is no longer voluntary? It's called Free Labour and it's bollocks.
Firstly, let me state the fact I work for NO MONEY. I do the SAME JOB AS THE NEXT TOM, DICK OR HARRY, and I work IN THE SAME CONDITIONS, FOR THE SAME TIME to the SAME STANDARD as anyone else.
The only difference is I don't get A PAYCHECK, I get £30 A WEEK. Now, I work about 31 hours a week. That's 3 seperate 9 hour days a week, and give or take 3 hours at College. Although I'm supposed to get my travel costs payed, this doesn't often happen. I'm given a bonus depending on whether I 'behave well' at the college. Bear in mind, this bonus is nothing to do with the quality of the work I do, while at work. Pointless, don't you agree?
Now, I used to work at Sainsburys, and then at the local bike dealer. Both of these were fully paid positions. That's how life works, isn't it? You do a days work, you're tired, worn out, but you get paid, so you can spend some money and enjoy life.
Now, if you work for no money, where's the encouragement? The kid thinks "Ok, well I've done a days work, and what have I got to show for it?" Being able to walk around, looking down at people, saying "Haha peasant, I saved an African Honey Badger today" doesn't pay the bills, nor does it pay for the night out. FORCING people to do 'voluntary' work is no longer voluntary? It's called Free Labour and it's bollocks.
not necessarily.
Not everything is rewarded with money, and sometimes these sort of work gives you an insight that a paid work doesn't. When you view work solely as a mean to earn money, your mind is focuses on maximising the cost effectiveness of your time spent, i.e. doing as little as possible while still getting paid.
The most basic jobs on offer in the society is most of the time, indeed, just means to make ends meet, with little satisfaction or meaning. But it is not representitive of all jobs in the world, in fact jobs should offer more than fianicial benefit, there should be job satisfaction, a feeling that you are having an impact on a part of the society, or standing by a set of values.
These are more advanced rewards of ones occupation, one that educated professionals are after. I am not saying working for money is primitive or low, but that money is only the lower common multiple and pupil that has received education should see it is not the sole target of going to work.
A society where everything has a price tag isn't a very nice place to be, because everyone only cares about their own interest and never stop to look at the bigger picture, that's the story in Hong Kong and one that I feel is a drawback of modern capitalism.
Teaching a child they have to earn their living is in every bit correct, but it is not a difficult concept to grasp. However teaching them to look beyond short term rewards and think about how does their work actually affects the society is a more abstract concept, one that is invisible to those who never tried working volunteerly. Once you get over why you ain't getting paid for what you do but instead of focusing on what you actually are doing, maybe you can see something else in a job.
I don't see the problem with this scheme, especially when modern parents are too busy taking care of their career and seldom have time to teach their kids about such ideals. plus civil service is nothing new.
Not everything is rewarded with money, and sometimes these sort of work gives you an insight that a paid work doesn't. When you view work solely as a mean to earn money, your mind is focuses on maximising the cost effectiveness of your time spent, i.e. doing as little as possible while still getting paid.
The most basic jobs on offer in the society is most of the time, indeed, just means to make ends meet, with little satisfaction or meaning. But it is not representitive of all jobs in the world, in fact jobs should offer more than fianicial benefit, there should be job satisfaction, a feeling that you are having an impact on a part of the society, or standing by a set of values.
These are more advanced rewards of ones occupation, one that educated professionals are after. I am not saying working for money is primitive or low, but that money is only the lower common multiple and pupil that has received education should see it is not the sole target of going to work.
A society where everything has a price tag isn't a very nice place to be, because everyone only cares about their own interest and never stop to look at the bigger picture, that's the story in Hong Kong and one that I feel is a drawback of modern capitalism.
Teaching a child they have to earn their living is in every bit correct, but it is not a difficult concept to grasp. However teaching them to look beyond short term rewards and think about how does their work actually affects the society is a more abstract concept, one that is invisible to those who never tried working volunteerly. Once you get over why you ain't getting paid for what you do but instead of focusing on what you actually are doing, maybe you can see something else in a job.
I don't see the problem with this scheme, especially when modern parents are too busy taking care of their career and seldom have time to teach their kids about such ideals. plus civil service is nothing new.
Not everything is, no. But doing a job (I.E work) is. When you were 10 you may have gotten £5 a week if you did the washing up every night. Your Dad may have bought you a DVD if you washed his car, or the like. You work 40 hours a week, you get £1200 after tax. (For a month) You work, you are rewarded
Job satisfaction is a relative term. If you're a computer games designer, you may indeed love you job. If you get a 50% paycut, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be so fond of it. You know what the biggest satisfaction of all is? Seeing your house and thinking "Yup, I earnt that." Not leaving work and finding an empty bus shelter to sleep in because your house got repossed because you put 'job satisfaction' over 'monetary reward'
Sorry just what society do you come from? (No offense, I know it sounds rude :shy
. You need a job. Why? To get paid. Why do you need to have money? Because without money, you have no house, no food, nothing to drink, and no life. You work as a first, to get paid. Not because you like it. If you like it, then hey, well done for you. Capitalism (to a certain extent) is indeed bad. Just today I had been forced to give an Easter card and an Easter egg. One day things such as Valentines day, Mothers/Fathers day, and easter are nothing but some incredibly fat individual getting incredibly rich.
As I said, money pays the bills. You work in a Supermarket, for example. You allow people to purchase food to eat, thus sustaining their families and at the same time, you are paid which in turn allows you to eat! So that's a win-win. It's not like we all sit in offices designing nuclear handguns or something.
If it's something like the old forced army service, well that's slightly different. That, I guess, teaches you about discipline (then again, if some short, bald headed Scottish man was shouting at you, you'd likely back down pretty bloody quickly!) and the like. But when you're stacking shelves in Asda, without pay, wiping old ladies bottoms, without pay, or infact doing any job, without pay, it gets boring very quickly.
I love the couple of places I've worked at recently, but after a couple of months I get tired of seeing loads of big fat zeroes in my bank account.
________________________________________________________________________
And yes, although it's not an ongoing course, I bet you that there'll be some sort of legislation that 'suggests' more. IE the course I'm on. Minimum is 16 hours, however 'recommended' is, and I quote "at least 30".
You do a days work, you deserve a days pay. That's the end of it
5haz - Have you actually read 1984?
Read a few articles of Jaqui Smiths policies - and then read 1984 - it'll be an eye-opener.
Read a few articles of Jaqui Smiths policies - and then read 1984 - it'll be an eye-opener.
^^ FFS S14 it's 50 hours of voluntary work for free, not free work for your lifetime.
Love the panic.
I think it would be good for your young people. Over here we got "work training" in schools, instead of school you go to some place to work for a week. I think it was fun, you got to know new things and stuff, and got some more perspective on life. No heavy works of course, more like something young people do as summer jobs.
And of course, we also have compulsory military service. You do you get paid. About 5 euros per day, and get free food, clothes and shelter, but it's still more like free work for minimum of 4320 hours. But of course, you do learn more than just kill your opponents and get even more perspective how things, people and world works, and more likely, how stuff doesn't.
Interesting how things are different, if your country asks you for something it's 1984 omfg gtfo all over the place.
Love the panic.
I think it would be good for your young people. Over here we got "work training" in schools, instead of school you go to some place to work for a week. I think it was fun, you got to know new things and stuff, and got some more perspective on life. No heavy works of course, more like something young people do as summer jobs.
And of course, we also have compulsory military service. You do you get paid. About 5 euros per day, and get free food, clothes and shelter, but it's still more like free work for minimum of 4320 hours. But of course, you do learn more than just kill your opponents and get even more perspective how things, people and world works, and more likely, how stuff doesn't.
Interesting how things are different, if your country asks you for something it's 1984 omfg gtfo all over the place.
We already have work experience. You get stuck in a work place for a week doing shit jobs for free.
This is just the gov't thinking "we have a problem with kids not in school, college or the work place. They end up on the dole and that doesn't help the employment statistics, if we put them in community service we can help the figures look better."
It is speculated that although the official UK unemployment figures are ~2million, if you take into account all of the special schemes the gov't runs so not to class you as unemployed it'd be closer to ~4million.
If it's forced, it's no longer voluntary, is it?
I didn't say it was for life, I was just using my personal experiences as a judgement. As I said, if you do a days work, you get a days pay. And that's the end of it, AFAIC.
Go have a conversation with an older relative (65+ = pensioner (which isnt that old 
) and maybe its a parent for some of the older people here, or maybe a grand parent for others) and you're nearly done, so imagine, if you talk to your granny (for example) at christmas and other special occasions over a few years you're done.
) and maybe its a parent for some of the older people here, or maybe a grand parent for others) and you're nearly done, so imagine, if you talk to your granny (for example) at christmas and other special occasions over a few years you're done.That's like working 9-5 for just under two weeks.
Sounds a bit like work experience.
Sounds a bit like work experience.
+1, this thread is ridiculous. Especially posts like these:
:thumbsdow
Everyone would like to think that, but you wouldn't.
If teachers still had the power to use capital punishment, smacking them back would just result in a bigger kicking then what you got before.
You'd sit down, shut up and get on with your maths problems because you'd be scared of the repercussions.
I agree that Labour has turned the UK into a country of wimps and that discipline is lacking here. Sure, giving the nippers a clip round the ear isn't always needed, but sometimes a quiet chat in soft lucid tones just won't suffice.
I think you meant 'corporal punishment'
I imagine there would be a sizable uproar if they introduced capital punishment in schools
Go Easter Monday hangover!
I dunno, I'm not too fond of children...
That's exactly what they'd be expecting us to do. When, eventually, people got tired of it, and one kid knocked the teacher out and broke his/her nose, then I'm sure that particular teacher wouldn't abuse their power quite so frivoulously.
I'd probrably just fall asleep like I always did in Maths.
If only...
I'd have about 500 (probably more like nearing 1000) DVDs now, if that was the case
Why are you guys even bothering to waste your time arguing with a 16 year old about the principles of civil liberties and the dangers of authoritarian regimes?
Shaz of course you haven't seen any of the things you say you haven't seen, you simply aren't old enough to have seen in happen.
You talk about "when" the government "starts going that way" in reference to moves towards the likes of China and Zimbabwe but you have no idea what you're talking about because they are already "going that way". You would know this if you actually had any idea of what the governments of the day, have been doing in your name, all under the banner of "protecting us from terrorism".
At which point exactly will you have decided that are "going that way"??
When they come to lock you up? or your neighbour? or someone you know?? It's nothing to do with being paranoid. It's all about believing in living in a truely free society with the right to free association and thought etc etc and actually being politically aware and caring enough about such principles that you are able to decry it's slow but persistant errosion. The fact that you personally are unaware or uncaring about such changes to our civil liberties is irrelevant to the fact of their happening. Please feel free to continue to "not care" until the day they come for you or your family on some trumped up charge for something that you never even realised had been made illegal. I suppose on then will you "care".
Shaz of course you haven't seen any of the things you say you haven't seen, you simply aren't old enough to have seen in happen.
You talk about "when" the government "starts going that way" in reference to moves towards the likes of China and Zimbabwe but you have no idea what you're talking about because they are already "going that way". You would know this if you actually had any idea of what the governments of the day, have been doing in your name, all under the banner of "protecting us from terrorism".
At which point exactly will you have decided that are "going that way"??
When they come to lock you up? or your neighbour? or someone you know?? It's nothing to do with being paranoid. It's all about believing in living in a truely free society with the right to free association and thought etc etc and actually being politically aware and caring enough about such principles that you are able to decry it's slow but persistant errosion. The fact that you personally are unaware or uncaring about such changes to our civil liberties is irrelevant to the fact of their happening. Please feel free to continue to "not care" until the day they come for you or your family on some trumped up charge for something that you never even realised had been made illegal. I suppose on then will you "care".
Maybe my history teachers lied to me, but I don't ever remember hearing about the UK going through a period of authoritarian dictatorship in the last 100 years, so tell me, when did you experience such a thing, wise old man?
Or was it something the media rammed down your throat?
I'm very sorry to bother you Mr expert, interesting how you bang on about how all our freedoms are being eroded blah blah blah, but you think that someone shouldn't express their views or be listened to on an internet forum just because they happen to be 16 years old?
We (well I can't) can always democratically vote evil Mr/Stalin/Hitler/Zedong/Pot Brown out of power if we want to, sounds pretty fair and democratic to me, did you vote in the last general election? Did you vote Labour? If so, then it's your own fault we have to put up with such a mean government that shoots your kids and throws you all in work camps (some people would have you believe anyway)
I'm sorry to burst yer bubble, but there never has been such a thing as a truly free society, and there never will be, I wish you good luck in chasing something that doesn't even exist, while I get on with my life and get rich.
I am unaware of changes in my civil liberties? Well, last wednesday I had the right to vote when I am 18, today, I still have the same rights, doesn't sound like much of a change to me.
You make it sound as if we're all about to be made into slaves and thrown into prison, this country is still a half-decent democracy where people can chose who leads them by voting democratically, you make it sound as if Brown is about to do a Hitler and ban everything, I can't see that happening any time soon TBH.
The truth is, we never have lived in a completely free and equal country, and we never will, so why don't people either shut up and get along with you life or rise up and do something about this 'aparrent' threat to our 'freedoms'. (sitting in roads and randomly smashing windows and generally achieving nothing dosen't count)
That's the problem with the world right now, lots of conspiracy theorists and protesters whinging on about how wrong everything is and smashing windows and sitting in roads, but very few people actually making change for the better, it's easy to moan. Me, just leave me alone, at the moment I'm fairly happy with (and I feel I'm very lucky to to be living in) the society I live in, it would be nice to make it better, but if there's nothing I can do I'm not going to sit and whinge on internet forums about how Mr Brown has taken away my freedoms when he hasn't really.
Then start complaining. Do you really think you'd hear if people really do get carted off to Room 101?
Just in the news today, the environmental protestors arrested whilst at the primary school, planning their protest at the local power plant. Does that not seem just a little suspicious? How did the police know that they were there, planning? How did they know they needed 200+ cops to swoop on the place and arrest every single one of them? You can't just pull off that kind of operation when a neighbour at the school phones up and reports some activity there during the night. It's all been planned well in advance. The protestors have either been infiltrated or bugged by someone, somewhere. Again, they are being treated as terrorists.
I dunno about you, but I think of a terrorist as someone who is intent on blowing up bombs and killing people or destroying buildings. Not a bunch of environmental protestors. And yet the terrorism act is so vague that people get swept up in it all the time.
Yes, because you don't have to be doing anything suspicious to get arrested under the Terrorism Act.
The old dude (Walter Wolfgang, 82 in 2005) at the Labour Party conference who stood up and started hecking, was arrested under the terrorism act.
Just in the same year, a woman was arrested as a terrorist for having the audacity to walk down a cycle path.
The environmental protests a couple of years ago where they lay down in front of fuel depots, were all arrested as terrorists.
More recently, yet another photographer was arrested for terrorism/security reasons and was entered onto the DNA database.
No, the majority of them were very peaceful. A handful of drunken thugs, egged on and surrounded by more photographers and media than protestors, smashed the windows of RBS. The vast majority of it was a peaceful procession that was pushed, beaten, and charged into a "kettle" hold around the Bank of England, out of which nobody was allowed for seven hours. And this isn't from the accounts of hippy tree huggers that probably want the water cannons so they can have a wash, this is complaints from freelance photographers and journalists that were hit and pushed into the crowd, and even a LibDem MP that was kept in the kettle and reported the crowd growing restless and tired, swimming in their own urine and being detained en masse without food, water, or rest.
I suppose you think that's all very reasonable, since they're all a bunch of murderous thugs that deserve a baton to the face and to stand in their own piss for the rest of the day?
Aside from your attempts to be flippant, have you actually read 1984 by George Orwell?
Who is "us"? Do you or someone in your family work for the govt or civil service? I guess it's not you, since you proclaim to be "Sponging off government education benefits" whilst expecting Gordon Brown to make some jobs available for you. Worst thing is, you clearly feel no shame about the sponging thing, despite it being a national cancer. But since you like to be provided for, would you like the state to change your nappy too? Feed you? Watch you while you walk down the street, track you everywhere you drive?
I think I've already disproved this.
But you're not a copper. In fact the more you say, the more you sound like you're just deliberately putting your head in the sand after saying "but the govt aren't doing anything wrong!".
And how do you complain in a police state?
Wait - protestors, photographers, walkers, dissidents, the political opposition, and motorists are all rapists and murderers? Why didn't you say so earlier? It all makes so much sense now!
Stop being so narrow minded.
Of course I will vote for one of them. I wasn't retarded enough to vote for Labour last time, and I'm not retarded enough this time.
I do. Doesn't mean I have to pretend that everything is hunky dory though when in fact every year more bills are passed that restrict or remove our civil liberties. As you're not bothered about your liberties (you've already said you have no objection to being watched and monitored at the govts whim since you have nothing to hide) then at least you have no grounds for complaint when one day, you find yourself being stopped and arrested for a harmless everyday activity.
Given your inability to respond to any of the specific points I've raised, and instead just reply with "well everything's fine for me and I don't think people are getting locked up for nothing!", then I'd say he's well within reason to raise the issue of your age. After all, you're not old enough to vote for another two years.
I suppose for people of your age, you have no real specific memory of anything other than Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. You only know NuLab, and their interfering, do-gooding, nannying, surveillance-obsessed, using-terrorism-as-fear ways.
Yes, and no, respectively. And perhaps you could stop with the stupid, melodramatic exaggerations about shooting kids and labour camps? They're not doing you any favours, imo.
Do you really think your civil liberties start and end at your right to vote, or are you just being deliberately obtuse again?
Well, Jacqui Smith actually, but let's not split hairs.
Well, why don't you stop whinging to me on teh internetz, get your friends together and overthrow the evil government? You're not making anything better for yourself by whinging here, me I'm perfectly happy, I lead a normal life where I can enjoy myself and diss the government all I like without getting shot, do you have a problem with me being happy with the society I live in?
And having the right to a fair vote is the single most important civil liberty anyone can have, because then you can vote your evil police state creating leaders out of power, that is, if you're not too busy sitting in a road, complaining.
There are too many people whinging and sitting in roads because some butterfly died out, and not enough tackling the real issues. Like why we're looking for terrorists over in Afghanistahn when all the actual terrorists are operating back here.
The important thing that spearates our government from the likes of Zimbabwe is that people may get arrested, but they aren't lined up against a wall and shot, people make a big fuss when one journalist gets his camera pushed out the way, as if another Tianamen square has just happened.
Like I said, bloody vote Labour out of power at the next general election then, it's the nations fault for electing them in the first place, you can excuse me, I can't vote.
Mwhaha, post number 1984, it seems comparisons to that bloody book are popping up everywhere. It's getting almost as old as comparing people to Hitler and really isn't witty anymore.
You just should'nt worry because there are too many 'safeguards' in the way to stop Labour turning the UK into a proper police state, already everything Labour do causes massive outcry in the press, which the majority of people in the country worship, so really I can't see Labour lasting in power much longer, the question is wether any of the opposition parties are any better.
And having the right to a fair vote is the single most important civil liberty anyone can have, because then you can vote your evil police state creating leaders out of power, that is, if you're not too busy sitting in a road, complaining.
There are too many people whinging and sitting in roads because some butterfly died out, and not enough tackling the real issues. Like why we're looking for terrorists over in Afghanistahn when all the actual terrorists are operating back here.
The important thing that spearates our government from the likes of Zimbabwe is that people may get arrested, but they aren't lined up against a wall and shot, people make a big fuss when one journalist gets his camera pushed out the way, as if another Tianamen square has just happened.
Like I said, bloody vote Labour out of power at the next general election then, it's the nations fault for electing them in the first place, you can excuse me, I can't vote.
Mwhaha, post number 1984, it seems comparisons to that bloody book are popping up everywhere. It's getting almost as old as comparing people to Hitler and really isn't witty anymore.
You just should'nt worry because there are too many 'safeguards' in the way to stop Labour turning the UK into a proper police state, already everything Labour do causes massive outcry in the press, which the majority of people in the country worship, so really I can't see Labour lasting in power much longer, the question is wether any of the opposition parties are any better.
Gordon Brown : Slavery to be re-instituted. Welcome to Communist Albania.
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