No.

heheh

i use wireless.. whats the problem?

I'm on wireless as well, and I have no problems. I used a wireless USB thingy before, and that was bad... Real bad. Now I got a proper PCI solution that works almost as good as a wired network. Almost.

Quote from aoun :

i use wireless.. whats the problem?

Humour aside now and being more serious.

I have the option of using wireless or using an ethernet cable. When i'm on wireless I see no difference in my gameplay experience. However for people around me it's a nightmare, hense I use ethernet.

The problem is that wireless doesnt send data at a consistent rate, so players on wireless appear to jitter all over the track. It really is a menace.

If you are on wireless, please check by asking other players if you appear laggy. If so, please try to find a way to go on ethernet.

The plus side is that it should give you a hell of an advantage playing counter strike!

i think there is more laaggg with wireless.

Quote from Rappa Z :

i think there is more laaggg with wireless.

O rly?
Well done, Sherlock!

Vain

I'm wireless here (not much option, short of running wires over 3 floors) but I have a good strong signal, and I've disabled QOS packet scheduling.
I'm not particularly UP on this stuff, but following the advice from others definitely got it sorted for me.

QOS often causes problems apparently, withholding packets. Other than poor connections though, I gather this is the primary problem for wireless connections causing visible lag.

That's interesting SamH and thank you - I shall try to test this tonight if I get the chance.

I run a PCI wireless card and before that a USB stick without any problems that I know of.

Considering the amount of leagues I've done now, if I was lagging I'm sure as hell someone would have told me by now

Keiran

I tried with QoS packet scheduler removed (PCI card wireless) and asked if I was lagging and I was given a 4/10 :/.

There may be some good wireless solutions out there which do work with minimal or accepteable lag, perhaps it is equipment related or config related, or maybe it's down to what our walls are made of.

Although i've not knowingly raced a wireless player who wasn't lagged I can say i've knowingly crashed avoiding numerous wireless players, and it's a major menace. I know because I can spot the tell-tale jitter now and when I do I ask, "are you on wireless by chance..."

I respectfully request that anyone who plays LFS on wireless specifically asks if they are lagging and checks that their connection is stable.

Thanks.

Respectfully, perhaps more practical advice would be to suggest taking it easier around those who race on WiFi, and those who are experiencing high lag. For example, I'd consider the correct overtaking method in these situations to be the same as with those who are slow, and inconsistant backmarkers.

To be honest, most people on WiFi have no choice to change infrastructure, and many of us have managed to pass without issue over the years, not just those with wireless, but those in australia racing in the uk servers, those with extreme packet loss, etc. etc.

If you're passing close enough to get hit by a warp move across. If its on the high speed back straight on BLGP (for example), wait your time until the lower speed corner's where you can overtake safely, where smaller warps occur. Here you are less likely to get knocked off the track, and if you do, you wont be in such a high speed collision.

I don't mean to cause offence, and I've rewritten this about 20 times. If this still sounds harsh, then my original post would've been much worse.

The problem isn't that big in normal street cars. It's more of a problem in the very agile singleseaters, because due to the nature of the cars it is impossible to just align yourself to the flow of the lagging person and wait for a good positio to make the move (that is because small changes in brake-spots make a huge difference in speed in SS).
I don't think anyone wants WiFi-users to begin begging for mercy whenever entering a server. That is not the aim. But I think they should know that they are or might be lagging. They should spend a thought on the topic and perhaps use a different sheduler to get rid of the problem, or upgrade the firmware of the WiFi device.

Problems have to be voiced to get a solution.

Vain

Quote :

If you're passing close enough to get hit by a warp move across

Taking onboard what Vain has said about the stock cars not being so much of a problem, I race Fox almost exclusively in LFS either on whatever is the next league race track or on SO Classic, and in my opinion both passing a WiFi player and starting next to one on the grid is a matter of pure luck.

If it was a minor jitter that'd be fine, but WiFi players regularly swipe from barrier to barrier without notice and can appear a second or more up or down the road with little warning.

People with a PC 15 years old can't play LFS, it's a bit foolhardy to say we should be inclusive because some people can't get the right equipment. Not everyone can afford a new PC - but if it can't play LFS then it can't play, as simple as that. It's not a matter of eliteism, if it effects other peoples enjoyment of the game then it's a problem.

The problem with WiFi is that the issue isn't apparent to the player themselves, which is why I made the post in the first place albiet with all the empathy of a falling elephant .

In fairness, packet loss and lag aren't solely the domain of wifi users. On our Teamspeak server I'm the only one with a) wifi, b) 16ms ping, and c) 0% packetloss. Those on university networks, those in far-away lands, and those who otherwise involuntarily share connections with others are all subject to this problem.

In LFS, even someone with a solid connection can appear jumpy to others if they've damaged their car's suspension/tracking, such is the limitation of four to six packets per second and the nature of predictive positioning. There are many causes for positioning misinformation.. wifi is just one.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Humour aside now and being more serious.

I have the option of using wireless or using an ethernet cable. When i'm on wireless I see no difference in my gameplay experience. However for people around me it's a nightmare, hense I use ethernet.

The problem is that wireless doesnt send data at a consistent rate, so players on wireless appear to jitter all over the track. It really is a menace.

If you are on wireless, please check by asking other players if you appear laggy. If so, please try to find a way to go on ethernet.

The plus side is that it should give you a hell of an advantage playing counter strike!

This is all really funny to read, because there really is hardly ANY difference at all when people use wireless or ethernet when playing games over the internet. The largest difference is transfer rates, but wireless is just about the same for me, and transfer rates do not apply to online gaming really (only network transfers, or if you are using your max download rate that is faster than your wireless supports).

It is kind of odd though, I remember last time I saw you online Becky, and you saw someone lagging, and asked if they were using wireless . He said "no" too. Wireless doesn't cause that!!. If the wireless was laggy, it wouldn't even be stable enough to connect to the internet alltogether. There is very minimal ping differences between the two types, and I think this idea that wireless lags is maybe just from your side. Maybe when you've tried wireless, you don't have a good enough signal? (SNR). Or your wireless access point isn't strong enough? Any number of things could cause it on your end. But I've played online through wireless for many years since it came out, and even on the oldest versions of it, it worked fine.

A friend of mine owns a wireless internet company (for people to get service high up in the mountaints), and from miles and miles away, with line of sight, they can get 15ms to his ISP. Playing online, downloading files, it is all pretty much the same. Now this of course is some heavy duty antennas and equipment, but in general, wherever I go to play on wireless (because I am quite mobile a lot with my laptop), it works just fine as long as you are getting a good signal, and don't have any hardware issues with your own wireless car/adapter. Could be even your hardware lags when your wireless is in use.

I suggest you find a wireless control application, where you can read technical data and find out just how stable your wireless actually is. Something like NetStumbler. But there are better programs out there.

If someone is laggy, perhaps rather than ask them if they're wifi or not, just tell them to kill Limewire, kill eMule, kill Napster, and cancel their torrents. THESE things WILL cause lag.. no doubt about it.

Quote from SamH :

If someone is laggy, perhaps rather than ask them if they're wifi or not, just tell them to kill Limewire, kill eMule, kill Napster, and cancel their torrents. THESE things WILL cause lag.. no doubt about it.

Well, quite simply, ask them if they are downloading.

Also for a few days my connection had not been stable, and when I tried to go play online, I would appear to be very skippy and dissapear when the connection timed out. This was with ethernet, but even with wireless it would've had the same effect online in LFS. It is just some people don't have the greatest connections at times, and/or they just don't realize that closing their downloads or whatnot will help their online performance (they probably think their connection is capable of so many things at once).

its the solar flares they get in the way of it

solely depends how good the wireless is really. The best thing to do is ping a server over 1000 times and if no big pings raise up you can say its rock solid.
For example a new technology here will come in action in about a month or 2. Its wireless and its rock solid. It uses Docsis system just like cable with pings of 7,8... So thats some kind of super duper wireless connection which is better then standard ADSL2+ with pings of 14ms.
Wired cable is probably still better but it has same pings as the wireless solution but only tests will tell this.

For example I can play any game with my upload fully maxed out with utorrent. If you use Cfosspeed it will hold your ping steady under 40 all the time no matter what.

And bloody 'auto update' on McAfee! (and probably other software too, but McAfee as far as I know doesn't allow you to specify what times auto-updates are permitted)

You can be happily racing around then all hell kicks loose (my PC stutters like mad as well as causing lag to others), just because an update is being downloaded.

Quote from MrGrumpy :

And bloody 'auto update' on McAfee! (and probably other software too, but McAfee as far as I know doesn't allow you to specify what times auto-updates are permitted)

You can be happily racing around then all hell kicks loose (my PC stutters like mad as well as causing lag to others), just because an update is being downloaded.

Yes, I've had that same problem with AVG Free and just recently I had Spyware Doctor kick in and start a scan of my entire machine. I'd just installed Patch S and suddenly the frame rate went through the floor - I thought hmmm then realised that my anti-spyware was running in the background

You know the solution - easy, do a manual update of AV and turn off AS.

Quote from Becky Rose :

The problem with WiFi is that the issue isn't apparent to the player themselves, which is why I made the post in the first place albiet with all the empathy of a falling elephant .

As for wireless, I've run LFS on a wireless laptop and never had anyone report that I was lagging, but then again I never asked so can't be sure for certain, but I'm sure if I was lagging and warping all over the place I'd soon know about it from others.

Quote :

you saw someone lagging, and asked if they were using wireless . He said "no" too. Wireless doesn't cause that!!

One time, just one time, that this happened !

I had a prime replay but it was a patch S one, next time I spot the tell tale jitter i'll post a replay.

All I am asking is that wireless players ask if they are appearing laggy next time they race. I think some WiFi solutions are better than others.

But my point is, this whole wireless deal going on here just sounds a bit wild... you just have to realize that someone's wireless internet connection is probably the smallest possible reason why someone is lagging online.

I mean, the first post just goes to show you have something against wireless for online gaming .

If anything, the average driver appears to lag online in LFS from these main reasons:

-Unstable internet connection
-Downloading/Uploading while playing
-Downloading skins ingame momentarily
-Using 56k/dialup