So, let me get this right, and please just correct my errors if I say wrong here, just curious :
BT : The holy grale itself. The ones that holds the physical lines in the country (most of), and having these centrals (called DSLAM).
ISP : The provider, the one you pay for the service. But again the ISP have to make a request to BT in cases like this, and often there the problem starts?
I see, but you canot have phone from the ISP? Or does ISP just stand for ADSL delivering? Or is it like this, that if you have ADSL, but NOT telephone of some kind, you have to pay a little fee each month to BT as "line coverage", or ...well don't know how to say it on english, but you have to pay a little amount for using the lines. Normall a phone has this includet in the price, but without you need to pay a little fee each month.
The ISPs actually own equipment ,(the home gateways), on the BT premises in some cases. BT own the DSLAMS. Of course ISP engineers aren't allowed to touch any BT equipment and vice verse.
Hehe, well we'll end it there, probally hard to explain At least in Norway it would seem like this (se bottom) :
I think I remember how it generall works (not 100% tho hehe), from your computer to the "WEB"
Basically something like this :
PC -> Modem -> (splitter if you have PSTN at all, if not direct) -> cable lines -> DSLAM -> SWITCH -> ERX - SWITCH - (here I don't really remember, goes to something bigger then it's WEB for ya) .
Edit : after looking on this pictures, are every line in your country running on ATM centrals? Means you use PPPoE (username password on modem) logon and not DHCP?
Yes, all ADSL is essentially a dial up system which use log on details, (configured in the modem), to establish the connection. Although often PPPoA (PPP over ATM) is used rather than PPPoE.
I see!
A real botter then? At least here in Norway we are phacing over to use DHCP.
About BT I think it somehow can be similar to what we have in Norway, Telenor. Telenor is the ones that have been building up the cable network in Norway, and pretty much "own" the lines. Other ISP can delive PSTN/ADSL and such, but still the lines are at Telenor. You probally can say it's the same. But IIRC other ISP's are allowed to build their own DSLAMS, and on that way "own" some net as they self can use it as they wish. Other ISP's that "borrows" excistings lines probally has to go thorught the thing to contact Telenor if there is a line problem, then Telenor would send some service man to fix it.
So sorry for going off topic, just a likeable discussion for a change. And after some readin it somewhat seems to be the same thing, but that it's very more strict in UK about BT beeing the "god" itself over the lines.
Edit : Yes it's allways some sort of autethentication pressedure to come on net But DHCP works, at least here out from a IP - POOL. Meaning an modem at person x would have xx number of aviable IP ADRESSES to switch between from time to time, or from each time the modem itself gets resetted. DHCP is so much more easier for normal people to use, as everything mainly is whole automatic, while PPPoE is semi-automatic in my eyes.
DHCP runs on centrals called ETH centrals. It's not much of a biggie, ETH centrals can both run PPPoE and DHCP, while ATM centrals ONLY can run PPPoE.
If you want to use ADSL as your method of broadband connection then you MUST have a BT line installed, (with the exception of a few places like in Hull, Isle of Man and Gurnsey etc). You pay BT directly for this line and any calls made over it are also charged by BT.
Then you have a choice of which ISP you use (including BTs own ISP) to provide the actual Internet connectivity. This is what is known as Local Loop Unbundling in the UK and was an initiative to increase competition and remover BTs monopoloy over access. It has only really been partially sucessful in practice.
Alternatively you can obtain your phone line from a Cable company. There used to be many regional cable companies but due to financial issues over the years they slowly all merged in to two big players called Telewest and NTL (who used to be Cable & Wireless). That is until recently when they both decided to merge, at which point Virgin Media stepped in and bought the newly formed merged company.
Another alternative is to have a VoBB (Voice over BroadBand) service, but this of course requires that you already have a broadband connection from an ISP, (which if using ADSL requires you to have a BT phone line - confused yet?? ). VoBB is provided by the likes of Vonage and others and you pay them directly for all calls made over the service.
Then there is the carrier preselect option which used to be fairly popular but died out considerably with the crash of the Telecoms industry in 2000/2001. With this option you need a phone line (from either BT or a cable company) and your OLO (Other Licenced Operator) provides you with a small box that is programmed to dial an operator access code before the number you dial. BT then route the call to the OLOs network who then handle the delivery of it to other carriers.
Finally, you have a whole heap of access numbers which you can either find on line or by buying a Calling Card which allow you to have cheaper calls, (usually used for international destinations).
Any clearer??
The UK was one of the first telecoms industries to introduce competition through deregulation and still remains one of the most competitive telecoms markets in the world. Although there are considerably less options available now than there were in the 90s.
Well DHCP is still used to provide the IP address for the router and can also provide a "public" subnet for use behind the router in your home/office depending on if you require that service from the ISP. This is what SME companies often do in order to have publicly routed IP addresses for their Exchange or Web servers etc.
It's basically is pretty much the same as in Norway, atleast the BBT (or voice over internet thingy) part. But if I remember right there are various types of people deliving the PSTN here in Norway, even if the lines are from Telenor. But you are requried to have a PSTN line to get ADSL. You don't need to have phone tho, but then you have to pay a little fee each month, so many people just have phone with cheap prices to just have (while they do not use them) just to not have to pay this little fee.
So all in all, confusing but think I got it. Change is, as mentioned that PSTN don't have to be delived from Telenor here in Norway, even if they own the lines, but you sods in UK are more stubborn on it
I'm absolutely fed up with my ISP, Orange. The customer service is pathetic, the call centers are all over the place & you only get to talk to an English person if you request a MAC code.
I have just about had enough of endless phone calls which result in some robot telling all the stuff you already know & patronising you with the same idiotic questions, these people are'nt human. Not to mention having to give all your personal information over & over as they pass you from department to department, its absolutely INFURIATING!!! GRRRR.
For the sake of my sanity would some enlightened soul point me in the direction of a relliable ISP with good CS @ a reasonable price. I was recommended Titan but cannot find out thier monthly fees.
the thing about exchanges, BT own the network. virgin media, talk talk and one other isp have their own network. i work for the post office broadband, we send a BT engineer out to the exchange and he then connects you to the main hub. the post office would buy an exchange stack (25 slot stack = 25 customers connected) once that stack is full, the PO add more stacks.
as a post office customer, you don't pay BT a thing. 0 for line rental and zilch for calls. that's all included in your post office bill.
if you have a fault, you report it to the post office and they then book the BT engineer to fix the fault.
you can have your ADSL up and running in 5 working days (no less) but the standard leadtime is 10working days (to allow for further delays)
the reason it was taking your isp so long is because they had to cancel down your old connection (takes 48hours) then they had to create your new order (a further 24hrs) and then book your broadband for the new address. if there is no (working) line at the new property, they will have to send an engineer out to examine/repair the line (up to £140 reconnection fee) what you've posted is actually standard practice for most/all UK ISP's.
i especially love it when customers complain that the delay is costing them money as they use the connection for work. they are then met with a responce like "this is a home package and is meant to be used only for home use and not business use. if you are telling me that you are using our service for business, i will have no other choice but to cancel your order". they soon change their tune.
People will always try and get something for nothing
But you're right, it never ceases to amaze me how many people expect business levels of service on their home connections.
If people want the kind of service that requires someone to be at their call 24 hours a day then have the decency to pay for it. Or do they expect everyone in the world to work for free except them??
It always amazes me how companies regard customers in a derisory way.
If I bought a printer, I bought a printer. It shouldn't matter if I bought a printer for home use or for business use, that printer should work and if it doesn't it should be fixed or replaced with expedience. It shouldn't make any difference if a car is a company car or a car for taking the kids to school in. The car should work as reliably regardless of the premise on which it was bought.
Business packages typically have different configurations - they are DSL rather than ADSL, they offer static IPs, port 25 is not hijacked by the ISP, they have off-site backup, downtime compensation with dialup availability, domain and website hosting. They are in many ways entirely different from home services and the costs are (typically disproportionately) more expensive.
But at the end of the day, whether you buy a Mercedes SLK or a Ford Fiesta, you will have a hard time finding IN LAW where Fiesta owners should expect a lesser or slower service when their car breaks down. No car service department ever made that one stick, and for good reason too.
Ethically I completely disagree with the provision of a broadband service for certain purposes only.
Why on earth would I, as a free human being, allow my internet usage habbits to be guided by a contract with my ISP? The next thing they'll ask is for me to only listen to online radio or watch TV at certain times of day... oh wait, they already do that by packet shaping.
ISP's do not control my life, they are meant to be providing me with a service that I then duly pay them for, any ISP which takes a stand on what I wish to do with the service I have legitimately paid for is committing a human rights violation.
Internet is no right in itself, but I agree that if you pay for something you got a right to have a working product. When that is said, downtimes and problems are things that happens every now and then, and some people are unlucky with crappy lines that causes problems.
However, I think it's fair that the more you pay - the better quality you get of the product. That however, doesn't mean the other "low cost" products shouldn't work correctly.
In my opinion, if you are doing really really important work home, make sure to have not a ordinary home product, but some firm product or something. Aswell, that if there is a lot of problem, you are more likely to be compenstated for the problems.
FYI, internet ain't cheap. I pay 700NOK each month for mine, and that is a ordinary custommer product.
According to the Trade Descriptions Act 1984, if i've paid for it, then it is.
According to my ethics, no company should impose itself on how I live my life. I would argue until the cows come home with anyone who would argue the point that a company has the right to tell me when I can and cannot do things, and what I can do. If i've paid for a service then I have a legal right to that service, to challenge this is to fundamentally challenge the capitalist system under which I live.
Naturally, and as a consumer I accept that things can and do go wrong, and provided they are dealt with in a reasonable fashion then everyone is happy, and i'm not challenging this.
Compensation meens nothing to me as an individual. As mentioned above I work from home, I need my internet connection to work. I have paid for an internet connection. What part of the Trade Descriptions Act gives a company the right to object to this? For non-British readers i'll give a hint: Nothing. For reference, I informed BT I was a home worker when I took out my contract.
I have the top package BT can offer and I get a poor quality of broadband because of my location, I accept this and don't complain about it because I appreciate that it is the geography working against me. When I move, I expect the move to be handled with minimal fuss. I will not accept extended downtimes for a service i'm paying for.
Whilst I do not plan to cajole call centre staff with pulls on heart strings of 'I work from home I need internet' the fact is that will be a motivating force for me, to say that I don't deserve an expedient service when i've been paying £50 a month for the last year for a connection that is little faster than a modem purely because I intend to use some of my bandwidth for work is just ethically intollerable.
I am a home worker, I do not have IBM in my lounge, I have a desk, a laptop, a cup of coffee and a cute fluffy toy sent to me by a friend. It's my home, not an office. I just happen to do a lot of work here.
If I was to view my bank online, am I doing banking from home? Should I be paying banking rates for my broadband?
No. There is and cannot be a condition of what I do with the service provided. I'll accept that there are download limits (I pay for an unlimited connection) and i'll accept that there is a speed capacity of the infrastructure. I'll accept that certain ports are speed capped at certain times to ensure that the bulk of the traffic remains expedient because the supporting infracture is not up to task, but I wont accept that I have to pay more to watch You Tube than my next door neighbour.
you're comparing appliances with services. a broadband service is rented, not owned.
just a heads up becky. a telephone/broadband is a luxury, not a right. just like a car (fiesta or SLK). again, just because you pay for something, it doesn,'t mean you own it.
you pay for your TV license no? do you own the BBC?
Then I have to disagree mate.
Phone, ordinary PSTN is a RIGHT to have, internet is not a righ itself. Of course, people of internet will say it's a RIGHT, but there is no law that actually tells that you have rights on internet
You DO however have a right to have a stable product as you are paying for. If the product is not what it should be you have the right to end the subscibtion / internet service.
Of all cases raised against ISP the last years I canot remember one were the custommer won. An ISP canot be charged / found guilty if the line itself is crap. (as I understand BT is the one that owns the line network). However, if the product is on a point where it's not accepable, the custommer have the rights to end the subscibtion without delay or money invovled.
At least in Norway it would seem like this (se bottom) : 
). VoBB is provided by the likes of Vonage and others and you pay them directly for all calls made over the service.
GRRRR.
