Wanted: XFG setup that feels a bit more like the real thing
Although the title says a lot, here's some more info on what I'm looking for:
A setup that makes the XFG feel like a real hothatch. TBH, I don't know what a real FWD race-car is like, but I do believe it's closer to the sporty roadversions than to our famous locked-diff-and-hybrids setups, which I just HATE to drive.
Coast-oversteer and very subtle power-understeer are what I'd expect. I don't have any clue about dampers and stiffness though. I mean, I know what they do but not which settings are close to RL.
So if anyone has / can do such a set, this'd be great.
Of course I have your "road going" setup, but to me this feels more like the 75hp standard hatchback than the top of the range model with lowered, stiffer suspension, up to double the power, "sport" seats, one inch bigger alloys and a nifty spoiler on top of the hatch .
So if I think of it again: a race-prepared XFG would be fine, but a sporty road-version would also be great. I'm thinking of cars like Saxo RS, 106 Rally, Punto HGT, Swift Sport, Corsa GSI, Fiesta RS and so on.
Actually, the latest version of my sets is intended to be like the sportier variants. If I was to make it like an early 90s 1.1 litre shopping trolley, the XFG set would be a fair bit softer. Damn thing would roll around like a bead of sweat in a fat mans buttock cleavage.
Both sets are nice so far - judging after only a couple of laps. Had to tweak the brakes a bit though.
I also found a set which is said to be modelled after a Kia Picanto Cup. I took this as a base for the suspension, which I left untouched except for the addition of quite some ARBs to keep the inner front wheel on the floor. Just out of curiosity I tried a viscous LSD at the most extreme setting... and it really doesn't feel that bad.
Here's exactly what a FWD car does, from race to production
quick answer:
drop 50 horsepower, and use knobbies on the front tires, with 75/25 brake biased towards the front.
extended answer:I had driven many FWD race cars, but they all suffer from the same physics, no matter if it's production or race-bred.
They all have a condition known as "terminal understeer". The only known solution to a car that has terminal understeer, is to "trail brake" the car, basically means you have to brake slightly later then a normal racecar, and enter the corner while slightly still on the brakes, forcing as much traction on the tires steering the car, and unloading the weight on the rear tires, which also assists the car's turning capacity, it also is a race physics thing, that would take time to explain.
Normal race cars have a set zone for braking. In that zone, is where both "threshold braking", (braking as hard as you can WITHOUT locking the tires up, on the threshold) and also where "heel to toe" shifts occur. For a race car, plowing is bad, as you would want the car to roll through the corner with as much speed as possible speed, that the tires will allow without losing adhesion.
Here's exactly what all FWD cars do in most situations, it's inertia + weight distribution biased more on the front tires = the car won't turn easily. Since the drive wheels are up front, they are pulling the car, even though the wheels are turned, the car still wants to pull the direction it's facing, straight in front of you. Even @ high speeds, the driver has to floor it, to maintain that speed, which only adds to the cars plowing factor.
If it where a Rear wheel drive car, the rear tires are the ones pushing the car, think of it as the rear tires want to spin faster then the front tires, since they are the ones being powered. The fastest way through any corner, is to drive the car on the verge of grip / drift, because @ that point, the rear tires are steering the car, known as "throttle drifting", and allows the car to be on the gas, exiting the corner without having to unwind the steering wheel, since it is already facing forward, and rolling.
It is that single fact alone, that is the exact definition of "practical cornering theory", there are many other factors, such as slip angles, a car's static weight as opposed to it's transfer weight, COG (center of gravity), etc... but in general, this is exactly what you would notice from a front wheel drive racecar, it's inability to turn at high speed. At least now you do know how the car reacts, I think LFS did a good job with emulating the physics, it's pretty close, just a lot faster.
so pretty much the opposite of the mentioned locked-diff-rearhybrids-setups.
thank you. that was an interesting read and/although nothing I wouldn't have expected.
I can't tell for the fast corners at the verge of grip, but in corners below 100 kph I get the feeling that power-understeer and spinning inner wheel are a bit exaggerated - using a "close to reality" setup, of course.
Best example: take Bob's road setup and pretend to "turn right at the traffic lights" but floor it (in 2nd gear and maybe 30 kph). You lose all traction. That doesn't really happen irl. Or try to drive in a tight circle while flooring it in 1st gear. Yeaaaah...
Anyway. Haven't really played LFS lately anyway, and with each time I do, it feels less like the real thing. better than any other race game I tried, but still not quite there.
Funny, that happens every time for me in my Mondeo, if I floor it while pulling away at a T junction. Turning up hills is worse, that inside tyre spins so easy. And my car is heavier and with with less power than the XFG. I've spun a wheel just pulling away on steep hills before, no turning involved. And I was trying to be smooth, not fast.
I think it mostly comes down to you not realising how hard your pushing when in a sim.
Fair enough. That's the reason why I don't want to judge the realism in fast corners. On the other hand, I have done the T junction thing in several cars (and flooring it is flooring it), had some light wheelspin in a few, but nothing close to LFS.
In LFS even the UF1 does it. I used to have a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting with quite similar specs, most probably even higher COG, pretty short gears and probably even more power in the low rpms, and it never spun at the T junction. The only severe powerundersteer you got was in uphill hairpins (that's why I liked racing them downhill, hehehe).
I just love Bob Smith's ''Road going'' car setups for Live For Speed. When I'm annoyed from hard suspension and low racing cars, then I just take Bob's setup and race on tracks. Cars are totally different with ''Road Going'' setup, they feels so realistic, you can actually understand how great is LFS's physics of car movement and tyre deformation. You need to try out those realistic setups from Bob Smith.
Does that happen with realistically spaced gears for road use? my experience is on a dry decently clean road, most of the times the outside wheel will start 'pushing' well before the inside begins to lose traction, but I certainly haven't done any 'scientific' test.
It's a bit like in LFS the outside front has too much grip
It's only every time if I'm heavy with the right foot. With 'normal' driving there's no such problem. Admittedly, the tyres will probably need replacing soon anyway.
Yesterday i tried a little car park racing with my Ka (with huge->) 50hp. I wasn't turning much, but inside wheel easly spinned(but not that i've lost all the power ) at 2nd gear around 50kmh if i'm correct(full throttle of course :razz. I've got even a movie from that so i'll post some description pictures :razzlater ;P). Remember also that XFG has only 56.9% of weight at the front, while most FWD cars has around 60%.
Edit. LFS has beautifull suspension simulation ... especially when it is soft. You can really "feel" and see the weight of the car .
Maybe I'm seeing too much in this line, but I'm going to reply anyway hoping we can have a meaningful discussion
You're saying a different thing, the idea behind my other posts is in LFS you can put an insane load on the outside wheel and still have the tyre generate a lateral force which is correspondingly insanely high (while you would expect lateral force to fall after a certain load is exceeded)
As a consequence, if the outside wheel has torrents of grip then you can step on the throttle and make the inside 'spin' (sorry Bob ) while still cornering. IRL the car would just understeer away.
Anyways, if u take the anti roll to the minimum and soften up the suspension then it kinda feels like real car. Dunno, maybe its just me. I kinda like it, on rb4 and fxo it feels very smooth and nice
) at 2nd gear around 50kmh if i'm correct(full throttle of course :razz
later ;P). Remember also that XFG has only 56.9% of weight at the front, while most FWD cars has around 60%.