Quote from RevengeR :

And the lack of ARB is really a kick in the nuts, since we are talking about a car that has 40/60 weight distribution. Trust me, it would be much easier to control with rear ARB, and it wouldn't be needed to compensate the lack of ARB with stiff springs, high coast and big toe values. At least we wouldn't use this high values.

Yes but if that's the case, why doesn't the real car have an ARB? It's only a metal bar so it's not exactly compliated to fit one.

I suspect the reason is that the real car doesn't handle anywhere near as badly as the LFS version, which brings me back to my original point. At least I hope it doesn't handle as badly - if it does then the engineers should be fired

Quote from durbster :

I suspect the reason is that the real car doesn't handle anywhere near as badly as the LFS version, which brings me back to my original point. At least I hope it doesn't handle as badly - if it does then the engineers should be fired

I think it handles very well in LFS as it would in real life.

The issue that people have with it I suspect is that in a sim you just don't have the same feedback as you do irl and therefore it is just way too easy to overdirive it in LFS So in LFS it is even more true that it is a car for experienced drivers even more so than irl

The LRF cars need throttle control more than most cars in LFS, far too many can be driven with just on/off inputs for throttle with LRF you need more refinement than that

Alot of sets are compensating for they way people drive (digital type throttle inputs) as much if not more then they are correcting car handling flaws - this is also why there is a bent towards stiffer sets along with the tracks being too smooth

thats a lots of toe, how many laps do your rears hold out for @ race pace?

Quote from Glenn67 :

I think it handles very well in LFS as it would in real life.

The issue that people have with it I suspect is that in a sim you just don't have the same feedback as you do irl and therefore it is just way too easy to overdirive it in LFS...

Ah, that old chestnut.

LFS is the only sim where I see this excuse wheeled out regularly, which suggests to me that the problem is not with the user.

Well, not many sims have as little feedback as LFS does, so it kinda makes sense. I think the RAC is a beautiful car to drive, especially if driven as carefully as in the previous video posted. Look at the incar footage. The guy seems to be cruising along, and yet a sliiight touch of the throttle mid corner adn the rear steps out instantly, and anyone that have driven any mid-engine car know that they step out FAST!

Quote from senn :

thats a lots of toe, how many laps do your rears hold out for @ race pace?

Even that huge toe in doesn't make noticeable tire wear during longer distances.

Quote from AutoPilot :

most of my sets us +0.2 and +0.5, and I can get competitive times with it. so I don't think it's that insane...

LOL
1st he said -.4 in front! +.9 in rear! so that is insane to me anyways as for the guy talking about mr2 its not a RAC,just like a 911 aint an elise. hey slap all the rear toe you want on the car but if your using +.9 somethings else is off toe should be used for trim tweaks aye? . Auto you are good at RAC matter of fact we were on the same track AS3 where i was running rac and you lx6 and we traded sets remember? {400}J.Richardson or [400]GoGo. your lx6 set is nice i ran a 200.96 in that set not bad with only 75 laps {and i dont drive that car much}. anyways my RAC set i ran 200.3 not far off the record with little toe and i dont think adding .9 to it will help matter of fact i think i changed it to no toe at the rear at all[as3] so for me for someone to use +.9 to make the car controllable is extreme

IMHO adding all that toe is masking a set up problem. do what you like.

Quote from ANAMENOONEHAD :

IMHO adding all that toe is masking a set up problem. do what you like.

It masks the deficiency of the car, not the set. But the more people, the more different driving styles they drive, so there wont be a 'perfect set' for the RAC.
And if you really want to drive near WR pace, you musn't let things like this pass by. If you don't want to, or maybe can't, you are one happy man

Massive toe is not masking a deficiency in the car, its masking a deficiency in the driver.

I can handel that car absolutely no problem at all, and I haven't even touched the toe or caster settings, I only change camber for the track and my springs and dampers.

What you need to do is find a balance in the setup between under and oversteer on turn in and mid corner and then figure out what the car wants to do on corner exit and compensate for that. You want to find a compremize between entry/mid and exit. After you do that you need to learn how to drive it like you would an early porsche 911. Sometimes you have to slide it into corners to get a fast exit, sometimes you need to powerslide out of a corner to set up for the next. The RAC requires a more direct and technical driving style than any other car in LFS from what I can tell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg Watch this video, thats pretty much how I drive the RAC, you can see how he powerslides out on some corners while he puts it into a slide going into others. Starting at 1:50 you can actualy see where he combines both, he puts the car into a slide comming out of one, and then powerslides through the other.

I am by no means fast with it because I haven't had S2 for long, but I can still drive just about any of the cars at decent pace without much trouble.

Quote from RevengeR :

It masks the deficiency of the car, not the set. But the more people, the more different driving styles they drive, so there wont be a 'perfect set' for the RAC.
And if you really want to drive near WR pace, you musn't let things like this pass by. If you don't want to, or maybe can't, you are one happy man

i dont think the car is deficient at all but different and more unforgiving. I can drive the RAC pretty good. i think the guy that posted above said it better than i have.

Of course there is no perfect set for any car but there is bad sets lol and any set with +.9 in the rear is no good for me...whats good for the goose aint good for the gander

Ok guys, I give it up.

on a lighter note ANYONE that wants to sharpen there RAC skillz drop bye team 400 #1 server not just RAC but the FZ5 also. Since there was alot of people posting in this thread stop by i hardly see anyone actually racing it

Quote from DragonCommando :

you need to learn how to drive it like you would an early porsche 911.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg Watch this video, thats pretty much how I drive the RAC, you can see how he powerslides out on some corners while he puts it into a slide going into others. Starting at 1:50 you can actually see where he combines both, he puts the car into a slide coming out of one, and then powerslides through the other.

surely all that sliding can't be fast... or good for the tires.

well if your not used to driving mid engine cars than it would be very hard cause it understeers when you turn in too late and if you get on the power too early it just wants to snap the rear end out. dont forget its turbo charged and for some reason the rac has really bad turbo lag so you kinda have to get on the power early. what i would do if i were you is get as much weight to the front as possible and it shouldn't be as unstable at high speeds or when your turning in to a corner. but when i learnt the ways of the rac i just used the default setup and just practised and im not even a mid engine fan i usely drive rwd cars

Quote from Ripley :

I just drive my Meriva from home to work and back again, and that's it.

Woohoo! i have a Meriva too! hahaha!

Regardless, it's a tough car to drive, it really is. It keeps you busy and makes you pay for the smallest mistakes. For me it's far different than anything else, including the FZ5.
This thread has peaked my interest though, and I've been driving it some offline. It's hard to make a set for, for me anyways. I'm trying to make a grippy all around set as a base for any future sets, and this thing is just all over, twitchy. At times it really does feel a bit like a small atv with locked axles, and you're trying to turn on mud or snow, with a really short wheelbase.

I'm gonna see if I can get consistent with it, on the keyboard, should be fun.

im praying for you driving the RAC with a kb. May the force be with you. it will definitely feel twitchy with a kb. only thing i could suggest is play with the steering lock. come by team 400 #1 we run RAC FZ5 alot and could pass you a set.

Quote from bunder9999 :

surely all that sliding can't be fast... or good for the tires.

That was a record setting hotlap, so It actualy was realy fast.

Drove this car in the RSWC and was at one point hoping i would have gone with the FZ5. I think the tricky handling is a result of couple of things like mentioned on this thread allready, the lack of rear arb and the tbo. Surprisingly i think only two guys have mentioned the tbo, wich was the reason i was hoping i would have been driving the FZ5 instead. The lag with the tbo is quite big and once the tbo kicks in the rear gets a bit twitchy. And then again the feeling of lack of power when you are first on the throttle. These were the reasons i was regretting my decision in one race in that cup.

On the other hand once the set was fine it goes nicely around the corners, only the tbo was bothering me at that point

What I do to manage with the turbo is try to make sure the car is going straight when it starts making boost. If its going to make boost mid corner like on some of the long corners on Aston I let it slip just a little.

i started left foot braking in the RAC, just to keep the turbo spoolling, it kinda works, I just need more practice.