Doesn't really count for UF1 does it ?
(reminds me of last UF1 race I did, driving bumper-to-bumper for 10 laps
)Fact is, you have to know the track and the rythm. I'd almost be able to know when to brake with my eyes closed.
Doesn't really count for UF1 does it ?
(reminds me of last UF1 race I did, driving bumper-to-bumper for 10 laps
)Fact is, you have to know the track and the rythm. I'd almost be able to know when to brake with my eyes closed.
1) brake early - way eraly. As correclty said above, you need more distance AND you lose efficiency. You also lose stability into the turn, so u have to be a bit slower than usual into the turn.
2) Don't sit right behinf him, move a little to either side to see where you are on track
3) get a clean line It's better to come out clean than fly in, skid out.
49 Usually if you're that close the guy in front will be defending a little, so he won't have the perfect line into the turn. Don't attack, back off a little, get the clean entry and on exit you will be faster than him - so prepare the move for the next turn/straight. If you're not quicker on exit repeat next turn ... etc ...
4) kow the track - good drivers can race closely because they can do the track blindly. They don't need to "see" where they are and where they're going - they know! If you can't do the next turn blindly, then back off.
5) use the skidmarks on track - both the black grooves which are there and the marks which get laid down during the race - they help me tremendously in finding a clean line. Always drive half a car width inside the black groove (in an turn), then you catch the apex cleanly.
6) be patient - if the guy in front is fast enough for you not to fly past him you will be quicker following and waiting for the right moment then battling every single turn. Fighting each other slows you both down.
7) just cos u sit on his back doesn't mean you have a way past - so again: patience and clean driving, not 3 attempts per lap. Aggressive driving has it's place in a race bitin general, the smoother patient guys are the fastest.
8) if you really have trouble on a new track, swallow you're pride, press "4" to show the racing line, it does help tremendously when you can't do it blindly yet
On a general note one of the most annoying things in LFS are racers who think that just cos they're close they can overtake. So wrong. You can be close and 2 secs/lap faster and still not get past if the guy in front drives celanly and defensive. It doesn't help you to have smoking tires and be all over the guy in front all the time. Diving into each turn andtrying to overtake is not a sign of a fast driver, it's a sign of an immature driver who does not have confidence in his skills.
Isn't it amazing that people who are 4 secs/lap slower than you think they have anything to gain by diving into t1? That's not raicng, that's brain damaged kids. All you have to do is wait til they crash and drive past - lol
aceracer
2) Don't sit right behinf him, move a little to either side to see where you are on track
3) get a clean line It's better to come out clean than fly in, skid out.
49 Usually if you're that close the guy in front will be defending a little, so he won't have the perfect line into the turn. Don't attack, back off a little, get the clean entry and on exit you will be faster than him - so prepare the move for the next turn/straight. If you're not quicker on exit repeat next turn ... etc ...
4) kow the track - good drivers can race closely because they can do the track blindly. They don't need to "see" where they are and where they're going - they know! If you can't do the next turn blindly, then back off.
5) use the skidmarks on track - both the black grooves which are there and the marks which get laid down during the race - they help me tremendously in finding a clean line. Always drive half a car width inside the black groove (in an turn), then you catch the apex cleanly.
6) be patient - if the guy in front is fast enough for you not to fly past him you will be quicker following and waiting for the right moment then battling every single turn. Fighting each other slows you both down.
7) just cos u sit on his back doesn't mean you have a way past - so again: patience and clean driving, not 3 attempts per lap. Aggressive driving has it's place in a race bitin general, the smoother patient guys are the fastest.
8) if you really have trouble on a new track, swallow you're pride, press "4" to show the racing line, it does help tremendously when you can't do it blindly yet
On a general note one of the most annoying things in LFS are racers who think that just cos they're close they can overtake. So wrong. You can be close and 2 secs/lap faster and still not get past if the guy in front drives celanly and defensive. It doesn't help you to have smoking tires and be all over the guy in front all the time. Diving into each turn andtrying to overtake is not a sign of a fast driver, it's a sign of an immature driver who does not have confidence in his skills.
Isn't it amazing that people who are 4 secs/lap slower than you think they have anything to gain by diving into t1? That's not raicng, that's brain damaged kids. All you have to do is wait til they crash and drive past - lol
aceracer
+1
I agree too with this, totally silly that as soon someone are close to you they think they can overtake.
If you brake more earlyer you can get a kick from behind so thats a big risk to do that
if i'm so close to the car in front i can see their front bumper i overtake them. If i REALLY can't overtake then i just brake a bit earlier and get on the throttle sooner to overtake at the next corner
well, the main trick to being a fair driver is to put 2 things in your head anticipation and consideration. If you apply those 2 things when racing with someone, you'll be sure to be to have good close racing. Really, its just plain and common sense, play nice.
If you're on the inside of the upcoming corner while you're on a straight and there's another guy alongside you going into the corner, be considerate and leave the outside for your opponent. In order to keep your car to the inside, you'd obviously have to drive slower than you usually would round the corner so instead of braking at the 100m board, brake a little bit before (105-110m) to ensure that you can bring the car down to a lower speed thus allowing you to keep the car to the inside.
Its basic physics, the faster you go, the harder you're pushing the car = less suspension travel and higher tyre friction (which all lead to less grip increasing the chance of going off your line or the track)
If you're on the inside of the upcoming corner while you're on a straight and there's another guy alongside you going into the corner, be considerate and leave the outside for your opponent. In order to keep your car to the inside, you'd obviously have to drive slower than you usually would round the corner so instead of braking at the 100m board, brake a little bit before (105-110m) to ensure that you can bring the car down to a lower speed thus allowing you to keep the car to the inside.
Its basic physics, the faster you go, the harder you're pushing the car = less suspension travel and higher tyre friction (which all lead to less grip increasing the chance of going off your line or the track)
I don't really have the problem of not seeing the turn coming up, I just brake a little early, and try to get to the inside of the guy ahead of me, generally they will give you room.
No you're not. If you're in equal cars, your braking distance is not 1-1,5 car lenghts shorter than person you're following, especially under draft. While you might find that you're able to overtake, it's because other driver has no other choice than slow down more to avoid being taken out by your careless driving.
Taking inside line into turn means tighter turning radius to complete the turn and slower apex speed to stay within limits of your car's cornering capabilities. Notice that you have to enter corner slower than you do from optimal wide line, this means you have to slow down more and only way to do this apart from ever-so-popular method of using next guy as a pillow is to start braking little bit earlier.
Sup 88? Been a while since I've seen you around.
Get a piece of cardboard, about the size that a car would look like being right up on it's ass. Tape it to the monitor in the appropriate place. Learn the track with cardboard there, then try and interpret what the driver is about to do after you have mastered that.
I thought this up a long time ago, but never have tried it.
- Jay
Get a piece of cardboard, about the size that a car would look like being right up on it's ass. Tape it to the monitor in the appropriate place. Learn the track with cardboard there, then try and interpret what the driver is about to do after you have mastered that.
I thought this up a long time ago, but never have tried it.
- Jay
Good thread this one
I'm not sure about the cardboard car idea
The best races (most enjoyable) for me are when you feel a mutual respect for and from the other drivers around you, as others have said it nice to leave room and be left room when cornering.
Practise braking and cornering off the "racing line" because this is where you have to drive to overtake safely/cleanly, and as others have said you need to drive slower on these lines.
Someone said to me a long time ago you never want to just follow the car infront, try to anticipate where you could line up a pass even if if takes several corners or laps a clean pass against a worthy opponant is a great feeling when you get it right.
If you do accidentially contact the car infront, be it a tap to the rear under braking or knocking into the side of them close to the apex, always lift to allow them to stay ahead, "dirty passers will dive into the apex and use any car thats on their outside to deflect them around the turn, If you need to contact the other car when passing just to stop from flying off the outside at exit, your not doing it properly
Know your cars capabilitys on a given track, if your not in total control of the car don't try a risky pass, however we've all tried that last lap last corner suicide dive up the inside and got it wrong
League racing always looks more aggressive than some pickup racing IMO because league racers practise together and form a "trust" with each other, making for better races and drivers with similar mindsets to one another all knowing where each others car is at any time during the close battles, giving room when needed and fighting hard.
Never ever allow your frustrations to show in your driving, even if your wrecked for races in a row never do it back, its a sign of weakness and imaturity, far better to grin and bare it and theres always the next race.
be very aware when in close traffic of other drivers/cars both infornt and behind, and all around you, sometimes when braking, you can spot someone in your mirror who has completely missed there brake point and "side-step" the rear impact, a proactive approach to racing is nessecery to driver self development, and keeps you in the race.
SD.
I'm not sure about the cardboard car idea
The best races (most enjoyable) for me are when you feel a mutual respect for and from the other drivers around you, as others have said it nice to leave room and be left room when cornering.
Practise braking and cornering off the "racing line" because this is where you have to drive to overtake safely/cleanly, and as others have said you need to drive slower on these lines.
Someone said to me a long time ago you never want to just follow the car infront, try to anticipate where you could line up a pass even if if takes several corners or laps a clean pass against a worthy opponant is a great feeling when you get it right.
If you do accidentially contact the car infront, be it a tap to the rear under braking or knocking into the side of them close to the apex, always lift to allow them to stay ahead, "dirty passers will dive into the apex and use any car thats on their outside to deflect them around the turn, If you need to contact the other car when passing just to stop from flying off the outside at exit, your not doing it properly
Know your cars capabilitys on a given track, if your not in total control of the car don't try a risky pass, however we've all tried that last lap last corner suicide dive up the inside and got it wrong
League racing always looks more aggressive than some pickup racing IMO because league racers practise together and form a "trust" with each other, making for better races and drivers with similar mindsets to one another all knowing where each others car is at any time during the close battles, giving room when needed and fighting hard.
Never ever allow your frustrations to show in your driving, even if your wrecked for races in a row never do it back, its a sign of weakness and imaturity, far better to grin and bare it and theres always the next race.
be very aware when in close traffic of other drivers/cars both infornt and behind, and all around you, sometimes when braking, you can spot someone in your mirror who has completely missed there brake point and "side-step" the rear impact, a proactive approach to racing is nessecery to driver self development, and keeps you in the race.
SD.
Good point this - this has taken me quite some time to learn, but trying to keep alive on CD1 this is a necessity! Into the pins under hard braking and in traffic I usually try not to be fully on the racing line to be able to get out of the way of the guy coming flying in from behind.
Another good way to do it is simply always choose the inside line, even if you're not defending or if it's a little sower - but if the buy behind decided not to brake he flies off without taking you along.
If I don't know the driver behind me and can't get the inside cos he's squeezing or whatever I just brake early and try to get a clean turn. I never try to go round the outside or outbrake around the outside - you can only do that when you know the other guy will keep his car under control. In most cases you will be taken out.
The ones that do annoy me are the ones who follow me. I go off the racing line to avoid them. They follow me off the racing line and decide not to brake and ramm me off - and it's like: jeez man, I move out of the way to leave you all the room in the world and instead of taking it you follow me out of the way and stick your nose up my arse - doh!
aceracer
Yeah, SD brought up a lot of good points, especially the one about knowing your car's capabilities and also, understanding how the car works under the setup you're using. Your setup might induce entry understeer but it may allow for a faster exit because you wouldn't fear sliding the car on throttle application (only applies to RWD or 4WD cars) on exit so logically, your strength would lie at the exit of the corner so you would insure going through the corner neatly to allow you to charge ahead of the driver ahead on the straight after.
For an oversteery setup, you would have to reverse the logic and overtake on entry because your strong point would be better turn in.
Although, something which can be applied to both styles is locking out the inside line. With an understeery setup, you might have to make an extra slow entry speed to insure you're right on the inside of the corner and then fly out and with an oversteery setup, you'd be able to go in at a faster speed but have to deal with the car gently (smooth throttle and steering input) at the exit to prevent your car from sliding and giving your opponent an opportunity to pull off a switch back (dive to the inside) on you and regain his position which can also occur if you understeer off on entry.
Personally, I prefer my car to oversteer as I can work with it better and get better lap times and in this scenarion, I think I'd prefer it as well because if you slide the car at the exit, its less likely that your opponent would be able to pass because if you slide, it would turn the car more to the inside and your car would be in a more angled position in relation to the road increasing the amount of space that your car has taken up.
For an oversteery setup, you would have to reverse the logic and overtake on entry because your strong point would be better turn in.
Although, something which can be applied to both styles is locking out the inside line. With an understeery setup, you might have to make an extra slow entry speed to insure you're right on the inside of the corner and then fly out and with an oversteery setup, you'd be able to go in at a faster speed but have to deal with the car gently (smooth throttle and steering input) at the exit to prevent your car from sliding and giving your opponent an opportunity to pull off a switch back (dive to the inside) on you and regain his position which can also occur if you understeer off on entry.
Personally, I prefer my car to oversteer as I can work with it better and get better lap times and in this scenarion, I think I'd prefer it as well because if you slide the car at the exit, its less likely that your opponent would be able to pass because if you slide, it would turn the car more to the inside and your car would be in a more angled position in relation to the road increasing the amount of space that your car has taken up.
I forgot one small point, that only really applies to the tintop cars, but is easily overlooked...
when your less than 1m from the car infront its quite easy to look through the car, well the glass, and see the apex of the next turn and beyond, its most usefull in the slower cars (like xfg/xrg) on the faster tracks (like we1) where you can take some turns flat-out but need to stay in the draft to attempt a pass.
Great point from Leprekaun about setups and driving styles and the different lines with each, same applies to class racing in the TBO cars all handle differently in acceleration and braking before you even start to think about setups or drivers
Ive been hanging out at the SR GTI server and at LR racings TBO server just recently and theres been a great bunch of guys driving there with some very close racing and exciting battles, alot of what I read in the posts in this thread have been echoed in the close races.
Close, hard clean races are always enjoyable, win or lose! (of course its best to win)
SD.
when your less than 1m from the car infront its quite easy to look through the car, well the glass, and see the apex of the next turn and beyond, its most usefull in the slower cars (like xfg/xrg) on the faster tracks (like we1) where you can take some turns flat-out but need to stay in the draft to attempt a pass.
Great point from Leprekaun about setups and driving styles and the different lines with each, same applies to class racing in the TBO cars all handle differently in acceleration and braking before you even start to think about setups or drivers
Ive been hanging out at the SR GTI server and at LR racings TBO server just recently and theres been a great bunch of guys driving there with some very close racing and exciting battles, alot of what I read in the posts in this thread have been echoed in the close races.
Close, hard clean races are always enjoyable, win or lose! (of course its best to win
)SD.
I've been racing just as much as ever man, if not more. I'm not the one that turned into an iracing fanboy and disappeared. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Thanks again from everyone for your input. I've put a lot of these tips to use and have been improving dramatically.
Yes. If you're so close that you feel like he's impeding you, then you're close enough to attempt rather easily. You might not make it, but you're close enough to try with a reasonable success rate.
But the trick is to know when to attempt. Because no matter how close you are, if his braking is hooked up, you're not going to get by without throwing it in way too hot and possibly losing the corner.
One rule I like to follow when outbraking an unknown driver is to make sure I brake lighter than normal, but at the same point. Carry more speed into the corner, get in front of him (and I mean directly in front of him) and then do what I need to make the apex and the corner. You'll be going a good 5 or even 10 MPH slower at the apex than normal, and this is what we call "parking" it in front of him. It's enough for him to have to check up and then he won't be able to re-pass you. The smart pass-ee will hold back slightly under brakes as the passer goes by and get a run through the corner so as to re-pass on the next straight. It's all about a battle for control of the corner, to dictate the actions of the other driver.
The worst thing that happens is you brake too light and throw the corner, and a properly thrown corner (ie, no drama, just wide) will not hurt your time so bad as to lose the battle. So practice outbraking an invisible car and purposely throw it in hot to learn how to recover well and how much exactly over the limit you can go without putting a wheel off.
And don't make the mistake of simply trying a pass at every opportunity. More than 2 pass attempts per 10 corners is a bit much. On your standard 1:30.00 lap, you shouldn't be trying to pass more than twice per lap really. You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket but by the same token you don't want to spill them all out onto the highway either.
Remember, the closer you are to the back of another car, the more he runs your race for you. The more fixated you are, the more prominent he is in your vision, the more he will affect your driving. It's key when following is to focus on running your own pace. Brake at your own spots, not his. Turn in at your own points, not his. Apex at your own points, not his. By all means if he's going faster than you through a specific corner, try his way. Maybe you'll go faster because of it. Following is a time of learning as much as a time of battle.
Also remember that distance and time are one and the same. 1 second at 100 MPH is not the same distance as 1 second at 40 MPH. You will naturally close up as you slow and increase the gap as you speed up. It's obvious on paper, but there are plenty of racers and most spectators that seem to not understand this. But part of the skill of being a good follower is being able to correlate time AND distance, not just one or the other.
Well spoken
well what i do is if the braking point is 50m i brake at 60m to be safe and i start braking first however i also let off the brakes first so i can catch back up and since im right behind him/her even if im off abit i can easily draft back up behind him/her. Also practice hitting a wall at low low speed 5mph to see how long your cars nose is. This will tell you how close you can get. I use to have trouble like you but figured it out
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Competitive Driving
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