I think if you put it as an Overall package it would be either RedBull or Ferrari, but Kimi imo has declined badly in the last few years and is nothing compared to the McLaren days.

Vettel and Webber is probably the best driver line up a mix of youth experince, skill and driving ability in all Conditions.

You look at the other teams and its basically clear standouts.

My vote goes to Red Bull, young talent with experience (Webber was a talent too, he was 5th in debut race in Australia, and with Minardi).

Definately Red Bull. Ferrari would probably be only 6th for me behind BMW, Toyota, Brawn and McLaren.

Red Bull, Brawn GP and Ferrari

Has to be Red Bull, Webber is a fine driver, and Vettel shows a lot of promise, rumour has it that Norbert Haug wants him driving a silver car after his contract runs out at the end of 2010, that could be rather good, or very disasterous for his career if he does take up such an offer when the time comes.

I would say Renault would be up there, but Fernando Alonso's impressive skill is rather offset by a certain Mr Piquet!

Quote from 5haz :

Has to be Red Bull, Webber is a fine driver, and Vettel shows a lot of promise, rumour has it that Norbert Haug wants him driving a silver car after his contract runs out at the end of 2010, that could be rather good, or very disasterous for his career if he does take up such an offer when the time comes.

I would say Renault would be up there, but Fernando Alonso's impressive skill is rather offset by a certain Mr Piquet!

Im pretty sure that Vettel wont go to Mclaren

Quote from EliteAti :

Im pretty sure that Vettel wont go to Mclaren

Yeah, all I'm saying is that Haug has shown interest.

Glad to see Red Bull at the top of this. Now we just need another 15 race wins

Well, i was bored.

Summary of points

Quote from TypeRacing :

Well, i was bored.

Too bad that the achieved points don't have a lot to do with the skill of a driver.

Webber has dissapointed me a lot in the last couple of years, it's a shame because he's a nice guy by all accounts and his early career showed so much promise. I'd like him to do better than he does, but he doesnt seem up to it. Accepting he's half-cyborg atm from his broken leg, I just can't bring myself to say Red Bull.

McLaren has Mr Midfield Kovi, so it can't be them.

Ferrari has the most undeserving champion in history, and some idiot who thinks he should be champion but is still looking up the meening of the word in the dictionary, so it can't be them.

Button has been impressive this year for Braun, and Barichello has shown potential but so far has utterly failed to deliver, so it can't be them.

Kubica has been a bit of a knob so far this season and Heidfeld has been distinctive in his absense from form, so it can't be BMW.

Williams have Nakajima, and so by the law of averages have the worst driver pairing on the grid.

Renault of Piquet, and so by the law of averages have the second worst driver pairing on the grid, despite the mighty impressive Alonso.

Sutil blew Force India's chance of a result with driver error, so I think they've been noviced into not having the best driver pairing too.

Beumi shows potential but at the same time shows he's clearly a novice both in his racecraft when battling other cars and his almost writing off of himself at Vettel in the rain, he doesnt seem to have the killer instinct so I can't say Torro Rosso have the best pairing either.

Suprisingly that leaves Toyota. I can't say either of them have impressed me at all this year, but at least they aren't diabolically aweful like the others.

Red Bull, especially Vettel.
He drives in a superb car now, and I recon he can keep up with people like Hamilton and Raikkönen.

I voted for Toyota because I think that Trulli has real potential and just needs to develop a little more, and he'll be winning races. I also think that Glock is a dark horse.

I heart Passo! :ashamed:

I voted for Toyota too. Trulli isn't often too brilliant in the wet but he can qualify cars in places they don't deserve to be. People think he's a bit slow in the races but I generally think that's a natural consequence of qualifying a car at its maximum potential - it will go backwards! When the car's in the right place he can get the job done. Glock as Michael says is the dark horse in the pack; good in the wet, aggresive but not stupid when it comes to racing and good enough in qualifying to not ruin his races.

On the point of qualifying - does anyone else think that Heidfeld is one of the best racers in F1 but just absolutely blows at qualifying?

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I voted for Toyota because I think that Trulli has real potential and just needs to develop a little more, and he'll be winning races. I also think that Glock is a dark horse.

I agree about Glock, but not about Trulli. Trulli has been around since the stone ages, (he's competed in 205 GPs), if he hasn't developed the potential by now I don't think he ever will.

Points are all well and good, but they don't tell the whole story and if you are going to use them, then at least make it a meaningful comparison and work out the points per race entered. Then you can actually compare the drivers on a like for like basis.

If you work that out it comes out like this:

Points Races Average
Hamilton 211 38 5.55
Alonso 555 126 4.40
Raikkonen 531 143 3.71
Kubica 120 43 2.79
Massa 298 109 2.73
Kovalainen 87 38 2.29
Barrichello 545 274 1.99
Vettel 51 29 1.76
Button 253 158 1.60
Glock 37 25 1.48
Heidfeld 204 155 1.32
Fisichella 267 217 1.23
Truli 222.5 205 1.09
Buemi 3 3 1.00
Piquet (Jnr) 19 21 0.90
Webber 109.5 126 0.87
Rosberg 44.5 56 0.79
Nakajima 9 22 0.41
Bourdais 5 21 0.24
Sutil 1 38 0.03

Schumacher 1369 250 5.48
Prost 798.5 202 3.95
Senna 614 162 3.79
Lauda 420.5 177 2.38
Piquet 485 207 2.34

Remember it has become easier to score points since the likes of Shumacher and Prost retired, so a fair comparison can't be made between the current drivers with less than 90-100 races under their belt and the past masters.

Unfortunately it's McLaren. Hamilton being the youngest champion of all times can't be that bad, Kovalainen is no worse than his teammate. For some reason they just want to put all their eggs in one basket and we get to see Elwis spinning on track.

I'll change my opinion to Red Bull tho if they keep up their performances.

Quote from gezmoor :

Points are all well and good, but they don't tell the whole story and if you are going to use them, then at least make it a meaningful comparison and work out the points per race entered. Then you can actually compare the drivers on a like for like basis.

Points per race is almost as useless because that depends heavily on the teams the driver has been in. For example Hamilton got a competitive car right away, where as Alonso started in Minardi.

they have a crap car this year, but ferrari are the only team who have two drivers who are both capable of winning races.

i guess red bull would come second on my list. webber can't keep up to his jr teammate, but at least it's not by an embarrassing margin.

beyond that, renault and mclaren only have one good driver each, and the other teams are filled entirely by noobs and over the hill geezers.

lol, idk how people can use how much each team has scored as a measure to compare driver talent, F1 has always been about the car and thats the first indicator of points scored then driving ability.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Webber has dissapointed me a lot in the last couple of years, it's a shame because he's a nice guy by all accounts and his early career showed so much promise. I'd like him to do better than he does, but he doesnt seem up to it. Accepting he's half-cyborg atm from his broken leg, I just can't bring myself to say Red Bull.

McLaren has Mr Midfield Kovi, so it can't be them.

Ferrari has the most undeserving champion in history, and some idiot who thinks he should be champion but is still looking up the meening of the word in the dictionary, so it can't be them.

Button has been impressive this year for Braun, and Barichello has shown potential but so far has utterly failed to deliver, so it can't be them.

Kubica has been a bit of a knob so far this season and Heidfeld has been distinctive in his absense from form, so it can't be BMW.

Williams have Nakajima, and so by the law of averages have the worst driver pairing on the grid.

Renault of Piquet, and so by the law of averages have the second worst driver pairing on the grid, despite the mighty impressive Alonso.

Sutil blew Force India's chance of a result with driver error, so I think they've been noviced into not having the best driver pairing too.

Beumi shows potential but at the same time shows he's clearly a novice both in his racecraft when battling other cars and his almost writing off of himself at Vettel in the rain, he doesnt seem to have the killer instinct so I can't say Torro Rosso have the best pairing either.

Suprisingly that leaves Toyota. I can't say either of them have impressed me at all this year, but at least they aren't diabolically awful like the others.

Imo it always seems to about how realible the cars hes had that effected everything, 2006 was probably the most fustrating, with 07 right up there too.

05 he was hit out soo many times from other drivers he lost well over 20 potential points, not to add to the fact BMW and Williams were at war with each other for half the season didn't help either.

As soon as he left Jaguar people thought he would be big, even i did. Then hes luck just turned to shit. hes still a good driver though or he would of been gone by now hes just soo damn unlucky its unheard of.

Personally I think Vettel is good enough to put Red Bull at the top of that list, even if you put Hamilton, Rosberg and Kubica in the same team. Although I also agree with Becky, I'm a fan of Glock and Trulli and hope that Glock has a chance to fight for wins this year.

Quote from hyntty :

Unfortunately it's McLaren. Hamilton being the youngest champion of all times can't be that bad, Kovalainen is no worse than his teammate. For some reason they just want to put all their eggs in one basket and we get to see Elwis spinning on track.

I'll have to disagree about Heikki. His performace last year in the McLaren has been unimpressive at all. Only 3 podiums (include the race win.) an 7th in the championship standing in a championship winning car? I think he is overrated.

To determine driver skill, I think it's reasonably fair to use the proportion of points earned by a driver for their team during a season.

Here comes some number crunching. I'll use only unweighed 2008 and 2009 scores (by "unweighed", I mean the percentage values from both years will have equal significance, despite that the current season is still under progress). For teams with no points in either season, I've calculated the ratio on the basis of average race classifications.

Alonso: 88%
Barrichello: 60%
Bourdais: 18%
Buemi: 75%
Button: 40%
Fisichella: 51%
Glock: 49%
Hamilton: 57%
Heidfeld: 72%
Kovalainen: 43%
Kubica: 28%
Massa: 56%
Nakajima: 17%
Piquet Jnr: 12%
Raikkonen: 44%
Rosberg: 83%
Sutil: 49%
Trulli: 51%
Vettel: 71%
Webber: 61%

1. Alonso
2. Rosberg
3. Buemi
4. Vettel
5. Heidfeld
6. Webber
7. Barrichello
8. Hamilton
9. Massa
10. Fisichella
11. Trulli
12. Glock
13. Sutil
14. Raikkonen
15. Kovalainen
16. Button
17. Kubica
18. Bourdais
19. Nakajima
20. Piquet Jnr

There are some odd ones (eg. Kubica, Raikkonen, Buemi, Button). The results get thrown if people are paired up with really good or really bad team mates, or had a season in a backmarker team.

So in this year's lineup, first ordered by aggregate percentages of two drivers in the team, and if the aggregate is equal to another team, then ordered by the team containing the highest percentage-scoring driver:

Red Bull = 132
Renault = 100 (Alo. 88)
Williams = 100 (Ros. 83)
BMW = 100 (Hei. 72)
Brawn = 100 (Bar. 60)
McLaren = 100 (Ham. 57)
Ferrari = 100 (Mas. 56)
Toyota = 100 (Tru. 51)
Force India = 100 (Fis. 51)
Toro Rosso = 93

Man, I feel like a nerd.

No, this is not statistically sound!

I'm so bored that I won't read all of your weirdy points posts...
In my opinion Alonso is an awesome driver, maybe the best (thats my opinion)... and you must know that I don't support him. So if I was asked about the best driver, I'd choose Alonso, but the most complete team should be somewhere around RedBull, Ferrari and.... meh... I can't find another, the Brawn dudes are fast but you know what I'm saying Mister, difuser.

Samjh

You'll have to go further back in time for that method to work properly. Almost all the teams have the same drivers as last year so adding the percentage of points scored will always be 100%. Toro Rosso and Red Bull had a driver change so they aren't at 100%.