Hello fellow racers!

With this thread I do not want to disaprove the devs work or anything like that! I enjoy the way the devs are working on the game and have nothing to say against it.

This is some kind of a question regarding other games and what good the devs could get from them.

Ok, so I've been playing rFactor for the last couple days and was wondering. All those mods , are they legal? For example, i think in order to have a ferrari race, for example in Nordschleife, someone would need to ask ferrari permission to have their cars in a game and pay for it right? Also with Nordscheleife correct?
In rFactor, do they ask permission to all those manufacturers and track owners? If so, does anybody have an idea how much would it cost?
If money is a problem, would it be possible to make a 99% nordschleife replica, and the last 1% would be added to make it "fantasy" but also almost realistic and thus not having to pay for it? :P Like GTA cars...looks like a Ferrari but its called something like Ferbari! :P


The other question is, and I don't know if this has been mentioned before or not, is it possible to include the most known add-ons (Pitspotter, sound remixer sounds, etc) in the next LFS release?

Anyways, post your thoughts (even tho they have been already posted somewhere else)...but please, no flames ok?
I had this idea after reading Eric's opinion on iCON magazine, when he says its easier to model a real car than to model a 3D car from scratch...if so, why not model a ferrari and call it Ferbari? You get the point? I know you are going to think "ok, so keep with the FZR (because it's already done)", but then I would say you can't compare FZR engine sound with a Ferrari one...

PS: Sorry i can't make myself more clear...i just lack vocabulary! :P

Regards

Quote from LSDBlackWolf :

Ok, so I've been playing rFactor for the last couple days and was wondering. All those mods , are they legal? For example, i think in order to have a ferrari race, for example in Nordschleife, someone would need to ask ferrari permission to have their cars in a game and pay for it right? Also with Nordscheleife correct?
In rFactor, do they ask permission to all those manufacturers and track owners? If so, does anybody have an idea how much would it cost?
If money is a problem, would it be possible to make a 99% nordschleife replica, and the last 1% would be added to make it "fantasy" but also almost realistic and thus not having to pay for it? :P Like GTA cars...looks like a Ferrari but its called something like Ferbari! :P

Whoa, the permission thing on rFactor. I guess that they dont have it - dont know actually. Anyways, if they dont ... it may be theyr end. Or something.

Anyways, u made urself very clear - i know what u mean

The question is that the cars and tracks aren´t released by ISi, so they don´t need any kind of license for that. On the other hand, since these mods are created by users, who are somehow anonymous, for car brands or track owners, there´s no point in trying to stop it, as this would mean a lot of work, and hardly no gain...

And since those modders arent charging for money there wont be any licence needed.

Yup, Takumi got it right.

The license only applies to people who use some brand's/product's image for their own benefits. So it's normal that they pay a license for that.

For community made mods, their are non-profit, so no-license needed.
Apart in the case that a mod would really RUIN the image of the product/brand they are using, in which case, the owner could ask for a compensation

So LFS devs can include ANY cars in LFS demo?

no, as it would be a advertistment to buy the full one. And do you think it would lock the car once you buy a licence? I don't think so.

Quote from LSDBlackWolf :

Ok, so I've been playing rFactor for the last couple days and was wondering. All those mods , are they legal? For example, i think in order to have a ferrari race, for example in Nordschleife, someone would need to ask ferrari permission to have their cars in a game and pay for it right? Also with Nordscheleife correct?
In rFactor, do they ask permission to all those manufacturers and track owners? If so, does anybody have an idea how much would it cost?
If money is a problem, would it be possible to make a 99% nordschleife replica, and the last 1% would be added to make it "fantasy" but also almost realistic and thus not having to pay for it? :P Like GTA cars...looks like a Ferrari but its called something like Ferbari! :P

RFactor can have it's mods because they are kind of on the grey area. The mods are made by a 3rd party and the company that sells rFactor is not making money out of them (atleast not directly). Technically I think the mods are not legal and the the car/track companies could sue the mod makers if they wanted to. But they don't because it wouldn't really help anything. There are so many people making mods and they are not really profiting from them and they are probably not very rich either. So the gains compared to the trouble would be probably quite small. Besides the mods are also free marketing.

License prices for cars/tracks vary depending per game basis. They probably take account how much the car/track would benefit in selling the game and how much it would benefit the maker etc.

Likeness is also part of the makers' copyrights. You can't just make a small difference and avoid paying licenses (Altough you could probably get a cheaper license that way). If you look closely at GTA cars, the cars are actually quite different from real life cars, they are usually a mix of multiple cars. Rockstar has probably lawyers that can determine exactly how close replica they can make.

The figure I've heard of is 10% (different from the real thing, to avoid legal issues).

The actual percentage wouldn't really make that much difference, since the vast majority of people won't have a clue if corner 97 is slightly tighter or if dip 47 is actually shallower than what we have. I've got PGR3 and Forza 2, and both versions of the Nord' are slightly different. Both are officially licensed.

And neither of them are all that much fun to actually race on.

Quote from Zen321 :

Yup, Takumi got it right.

The license only applies to people who use some brand's/product's image for their own benefits. So it's normal that they pay a license for that.

For community made mods, their are non-profit, so no-license needed.
Apart in the case that a mod would really RUIN the image of the product/brand they are using, in which case, the owner could ask for a compensation

Exactlyyy...

Thing is, perhaps if the devs released a Nordeschliefe mod that was free when S3 was finished, they should get away with it.

As said, rFactor modding is free because they don't charge.

Hmm...I guess i got it now.

As for the fun of the nordscheleife, I don't know about you but i find it very amusing! The only problem is when you lose control of the car and thus lose the "company" and start to feel kinda lonely for a long time...


Regards,

Just curious - how do you quantify that likeness?

Quote from Breizh :

Just curious - how do you quantify that likeness?

I dont think i got your question right, but ill try to explain myself.

The reason i like that track is because of its technicality (you have big straights followed by 3 or 4 tight corners, and some invisible ones). Adding to that the not so flat surfaces and bumpy bits, it gives me some headaches to control the car. If you look at LFS, at Aston GP or even Kyoto GP, its hard to drive fast through all those corners but wheres the bumpy feeling?

It's been mentioned before the need to have a nurburgring type of track. Some say it wouldn't be that good because if someone gets behind it would turn out to be boring and I understand. but what about the feeling of driving a well known track, the sense of immersion LFS can give, wouldn't it all be good?

I don't know...maybe i'm making a fool out of myself, but thats what i think.
Anyway, i believe the devs have already worked this out and its soon to be implemented something like Westhill Long

I have faith on their work and have nothing to complaint about!
I play them all (other sim games) and LFS is still the best ever!

Regards

Quote from LSDBlackWolf :

I dont think i got your question right, but ill try to explain myself.

He meant the likeness of the game track to the real one. How much they look/are like each other.

Quote from Shadowww :

So LFS devs can include ANY cars in LFS demo?

Technically, yes - but as the demo is there to sell a product, I can see complications. Also - why would they put any and every car in the free game? At the end of the day they use that as a demonstration, of what the game is like - its not a demonstration if its better than the full thing!

Quote from mcintyrej :

Technically, yes - but as the demo is there to sell a product

Yep, and also dont forget. Even if the demo is free, the full version of lfs is being sold breaks the rule. Therefore Rfactor devs also made up the cars, but the community made the mods for free.

If Scawen ever would allow us to mod

Quote from zeugnimod :

He meant the likeness of the game track to the real one. How much they look/are like each other.

Ohh, rofl...:doh:

dunno...its kinda hard to tell...

Its just...argh, i dunno. Do you have rFactor? if yes, download Nordschleife_2007 track from rfactorcentral and give it a shot. I've been racing there with Clio and ETCC mods so far...will try others tho.

I took the chance to watch this movie and try to compare with what I've raced, and, although its not 100% accurate, its pretty close.

Hello again!

I downloaded 911 biturbo mod for rfactor yesterday and gave it a shot.
The car itself is more powerful than the one on the video i posted above, but i managed to make a 7m02 with a few crashes on the way.

The difference is I don't know the track yet and the mod isnt that good. You can go from 0 to 300Km'h pretty fast but the brakes just dont match the same performance and the grip is very bad.

Once I practice a bit more I may be available to post a comparison video.

Anyways, can somebody answer the 2nd question?
"is it possible to include the most known add-ons (Pitspotter, sound remixer sounds, etc) in the next LFS release?" or are these not in the devs plans at all?

Regards,

I very much doubt there's going to be any unofficial 3rd party releases implemented into official game client if that's what you're looking for.