Has to be Ferrari, even with Kimi's decline in form. For me they are not the most skilful drivers, but together they bring the most competitive package. Whereas you have the most talented driver Alonso (imo) held down by Piquet Jnr.
Poll : Team with best overall drivers?
RedBull
68
Brawn GP
22
Ferrari
18
McLaren
10
BMW Sauber
7
Toyota
4
Force India
4
Williams
2
Renault
2
Toro-Rosso
1
This thread is nonsense. Having had it last year, the BGP drivers would have been nowhere on the list, so it's just another poll that favours the team doing best at the minute.
exactlyWebber is on par with Button, both very good drivers, but the most skilled...c'mon please. Everyone just makes a sing and dance about them when they are winning. Vettel deserves the praise, he is a star of the future.
Overall they are the best though, Webber is as good as say Trulli or Button where as Vettel is in the league of say Hamilton and Alonso.
Brawn overall are shit i agree on this.
Hamilton and Alonso have to be in the same league at first for that to be true, don't they?
Scott Speed
/thread.
/thread.
L to tha OL
but that reminds me, i saw something about Liuzzi wanting to get back into F1 again. ya right.
No Vettel is definitely not in the same league as Hamilton or, I cant even believe you said it, Alonso! He has the makings for it though, I don't see him sticking around in the RBR for too long.
Well I didn't say that. BrawnGP are just as good as Red bull.
Remember, dont make your judgements based on nationality
He's certainly close if not there already. However I see some testing times for Vettel in the future. I don't think his ability will ever wain but I am sure people's perception of him will
I haven't yet seen anything from him that suggests he is becoming what people percieve as 'arrogant' (perception not reality) but once all this goodwill fakery we are seeing in F1 atm dissapears as the championship progresses, we will see a more hard nosed Vettel.
I certainly see slight conflict in Vettel's racing. Australia was a good example as to where his mind is. He was indecisive when being overtaken by Kubica and then the radio broadcasts. This to me has to change if he is to fulfil his potential. Once it does and he starts to race on-track proper he could be a stunning prospect for muiltiple world titles but at the detriment to his paddock popularity. Just look at Hamilton!
wow. vettel can't be as good as hamilton until he starts acting like a twat? rationalize away the faults of your hero much?
didn't say that, nor did I say he needs to act like a 'twat'. What I am certain of though is he will have to do things that, as a consequence, will make people perceive him to be arrogant or a 'twat' as you put it. That's part of being a race driver.
Just look at all the sh1t thrown at Senna when he was racing, Schumacher as well.
At the moment Vettel is the media darling but we've all been fooled by this before. Just wait and see how they treat him once he 'slips' up. I am personally not fooled by all the bullsh1t written about drivers. I go from personal experience with a driver as much as I possibly can before forming an opinion.
Vettel is an utterly superb driver and clearly a nice bloke, but is being treated eerily well by the press. In his second year of F1 he span in his second race beaching his car. Had that been Hamilton everyone would be saying he's buckling under the pressure. In fact they did in Bahrain 08. But with Vettel it was just swept under the carpet.
All I am saying is that the shine will start to wear off once Vettel starts putting on his race face. Everyone at the moment in F1 at the front seem to be all 'friendly nicey lets go down the pub' . It won't stay like that for long
You don't have to be an ass to be a world champion.
Damon Hill was apparently a nice fellow, even with his champion status. Jackie Stewart was no snot, but he won three championships (and a knighthood). There are more.
Whether because of his age or his relatively sheltered racing superstar upbringing, Hamilton has said some things which were purely rude. When he is polite, it feels contrived. Vettel has the ability to sound polite and sincere. Reality or perception? Who knows, we don't live or work with these drivers. But the difference in perception has nothing to do with media coverage (Vettel got plenty at BMW, STR, and now RBR) or the status of their teams, but it's the way they present themselves to the public and to the sports media.
Without doubt, Vettel is not without flaws. He seems to be make judgemental errors when racing. Too hard-nosed, like Hamilton. But unlike Hamilton, Vettel is willing to apologise, even to his own detriment. That sort of redemptive attitude gives him a one-up on Hamilton in the "nice bloke" scorecard.
Damon Hill was apparently a nice fellow, even with his champion status. Jackie Stewart was no snot, but he won three championships (and a knighthood). There are more.
Whether because of his age or his relatively sheltered racing superstar upbringing, Hamilton has said some things which were purely rude. When he is polite, it feels contrived. Vettel has the ability to sound polite and sincere. Reality or perception? Who knows, we don't live or work with these drivers. But the difference in perception has nothing to do with media coverage (Vettel got plenty at BMW, STR, and now RBR) or the status of their teams, but it's the way they present themselves to the public and to the sports media.
Without doubt, Vettel is not without flaws. He seems to be make judgemental errors when racing. Too hard-nosed, like Hamilton. But unlike Hamilton, Vettel is willing to apologise, even to his own detriment. That sort of redemptive attitude gives him a one-up on Hamilton in the "nice bloke" scorecard.
I can't beleve people don't regard Vettel to be as good as Hamilton or Alonso, hes proven himself and with a car thats got a tiny us budget using desgins from a midfield team at the time, now that he has one hes doing a bloody good job and more results this year should confirm it.
Btw i can see Vettel staying at Redbull for a few more years.
Btw i can see Vettel staying at Redbull for a few more years.
what are you talking about? lol
Button is good, you could say hes in the top half of drivers in terms of skill, but Barrichello is clearly past hes prime but since the Brawn is soo fast it doesn't really highlight it.
This is how I put it:
Webber,Button equal.
Vettel far surpirior to Barrichello.
Red Bull "owns" him. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on a long-term contract with the team, like Hamilton's contract with McLaren.
Well then, if we are playing like that;
Kovi, Webber, Button - Equal
Hamilton, Vettel - Well you know my opinion on that
True, i forgot about that
Heres something else i found.
... :PIts kinda weird how he was with BMW for awhile though(probably due to the fact he won that BMW series), and I heard hes on a 2 year contract with a clause at the end of these season if he doesn't like it, but after this season im sure he will probably extend it.
pffft Kovi sucks
(D.Zanetti)
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by D.Zanetti
I think his stint at BMW was a try-before-you-buy loan from Red Bull. Vettel was very fresh at the time. Red Bull didn't want to risk Vettel in their "big" team, but BMW needed a committed 3rd driver since Glock was occupied with GP2. Red Bull loans Vettel to BMW to be BMW's 3rd driver, and scores a chance to gauge Vettel's talent before plugging him into one of their own cars.
What!? Webber is a good driver, maybe not the best but he's good. Button is doing ok this year, despite being a non-supporter i'll gladly accept he's rubbing my nose in it and wish him all the best with that. How you can say either of these two is on a par with a driver like Kovi who has the unique gift of being a midfielder when his team mate was winning a world title just smacks of poor observational skills, either that or your TV shows different Grand Prix to mine!
Kovi is not the worst driver in F1 because Nakajima and Piquet are currently racing, and he is at least consistent in his ability to fail, and we've seen him in both a fast and a slow car and suck equally badly in each, and not just "on a good day he's good and on a bad day he's bad". He just sucks all the time, totally, and worse yet is he doesnt even show any promise of being a good driver.
I would have had reservations about putting him in an F1 last year, this year i'm suprised he's still in motorsports let alone on the grid.
Oh come on, Kovalainen did well in the second half of 2007 against Fisichella, although I'll admit Fisichella isn't exactly top-flight.
If you asked for the most skillful driver it would be much easier, but I don't think you can pick 2 drivers of the same team that easily, i'd say Renault if Piquet was minimally good as I think Alonso is the best driver out there. Just like Hamilton but Lewis lacks experience..
I'd say the Webber-Vettel combination is the best one at the moment, they're good but not outstanding (at least for me), although Vettel still has alot to say.
I'd say the Webber-Vettel combination is the best one at the moment, they're good but not outstanding (at least for me), although Vettel still has alot to say.
Just out of interest, exactly when is somebody deemed to have gained "enough" experience?
I suppose it's pretty subjective. I think two full seasons in F1 should qualify for "experienced" status, and five seasons should put a driver in the "veteran" category. One should also consider their pre-F1 racing achievements, however, like Bourdais' four Champ Car titles, and Glock's Champ Car and F1 test experience.
When you consider that the "veterans" of F1 have clocked up over 200 races I don't think anyone could ever objectively call a mere 38 race starts "experienced". Under 50 races is still clearly "novice" status as far as F1 is concerned. To be considered "Experienced" a driver would need to have completed at least 100 races (half way to veteran status) IMO.
Points are irrelevant. You can't judge a drivers experience on the basis of how many points they've scored.
Also, as anyone who is actually in a position to be knowlegable in such things will tell you, (ie those with experience of both), F1 is in a different league completely to any other motorsport series and so no, experience in other series isn't relevant to F1. Much the same as any MotoGP and any other motorcycle racing series on the planet. There is just no preparation that can be made in other series to climbing aboard and racing a MotoGP machine.
Which F1 team has the most skillful drivers(overall)?
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