Would seem maybe it could be....

There could possibly be three new teams on the grid if the proposed capping of team budgets goes ahead in F1.

Independent teams looking to join F1

More teams would mean more drivers and hopefully more "interesting" races. Not that I think this season has got off to a bad start by any means.

Thoughts??

Maxie's (original) idea means teams would be running two completely different set of rules. That would be retarded. No for that.

Quote from deggis :

Maxie's (original) idea means teams would be running two completely different set of rules. That would be retarted. No for that.

+1..

Although I think if budgets were capped it would switch things up, introduce new talent and new teams, which would be good..

It would be good for this period of recession, but not so sure in the longer-term. After all, F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motorsport

Quote from deggis :

retarted

Retarded, yes.

One single budget cap that's not as low as 30M is fine imo. Several budget caps however, are not.

The budget cap will be great, all the teams will sign up for it so they get the relaxed technical restrictions, then cheat and spend as much as they are now.

Maybe it will lead to a return of the 'garagistes', after all, Lola are already expressing interest.

i dont get this two set of different rules... can someone explain ? ( too lazy to read the Ferrari International Assistance's article about the new rules if they accept the budget cap. )

Quote from el pibe :

i dont get this two set of different rules... can someone explain ? ( too lazy to read the Ferrari International Assistance's article about the new rules if they accept the budget cap. )

One proposal is that the teams that use the budget cap would have no engine rev limit and would be able to have some degree of moving wings. A lower minimum weight would be a bit more sensible IMO.

Naah, the trouble starts when you start making the playing field uneven, for example in WTCC, extra ballast has basically made it impossible for Priaulx to have another crack at the championship, it's just a very expensive Seat Supercup championship now.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74922

Tomorrow is going to be exciting day. Liegate verdict is probably going to overshadow these regulations... if approved.

Quote from el pibe :

i dont get this two set of different rules... can someone explain ? ( too lazy to read the Ferrari International Assistance's article about the new rules if they accept the budget cap. )

Q. What technical and other freedoms will the cost-capped teams have which are not available to the other teams?

MM: A different (but standard) under body, movable wings, no engine rev limit, no restriction on the number or type of updates, no homologation requirements, no limits on materials, testing, simulators, wind tunnels and so forth - most of the cost saving measures introduced over the last few years will not apply to these teams. However measures to save money during the race weekend, such as the ban on refuelling and the Saturday parc ferme, will apply to both categories of team.

We are also thinking about a much bigger capacity KERS for the cost-capped teams. But all this must be covered by the £30 million - no exceptions and no free or subsidised outside help. Anything supplied by another team or an outside supplier will be included at its full commercial cost except for items supplied to all teams at subsidised rates under the single supplier arrangements negotiated by the FIA (e.g. for tyres), which allow all teams to benefit equally from reduced costs.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73742

Fast-foward to 2010 and imagine the gigantic can of worms...

Quote from deggis :

Q. What technical and other freedoms will the cost-capped teams have which are not available to the other teams?

MM: A different (but standard) under body, movable wings, no engine rev limit, no restriction on the number or type of updates, no homologation requirements, no limits on materials, testing, simulators, wind tunnels and so forth - most of the cost saving measures introduced over the last few years will not apply to these teams. However measures to save money during the race weekend, such as the ban on refuelling and the Saturday parc ferme, will apply to both categories of team.

We are also thinking about a much bigger capacity KERS for the cost-capped teams. But all this must be covered by the £30 million - no exceptions and no free or subsidised outside help. Anything supplied by another team or an outside supplier will be included at its full commercial cost except for items supplied to all teams at subsidised rates under the single supplier arrangements negotiated by the FIA (e.g. for tyres), which allow all teams to benefit equally from reduced costs.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73742

Fast-foward to 2010 and imagine the gigantic can of worms...

that is erm... quite queer.

so if the big teams accept to let new teams with the budget cap, there would be the teams that we have now with the current rules, and then some crappy team like ( FICTIONAL ) 123lola that has movables wings, engines that can do 40,000 RPM and a 1000bhp kers system ?

Quote from el pibe :

so if the big teams accept to let new teams with the budget cap, there would be the teams that we have now with the current rules, and then some crappy team like ( FICTIONAL ) 123lola that has movables wings, engines that can do 40,000 RPM and a 1000bhp kers system ?

Sounds like it.

Can anyone think of a sport with voluntary budget caps? I can't.

F1 should have one set of rules for all teams. F1 is not a two-class racing category, but having voluntary budget caps with two sets of technical regulations will inevitably result in a two-class grid.

Quote from samjh :

Sounds like it.

Can anyone think of a sport with voluntary budget caps? I can't.

F1 should have one set of rules for all teams. F1 is not a two-class racing category, but having voluntary budget caps with two sets of technical regulations will inevitably result in a two-class grid.

+1

i've been watching every formula 1 season since 1997 ( mind you.. i was born 7 months before the death of the greatest ever. ) and every race that i saw was one grid, dominated by ferrari most of the time and Hakkinen, alonso, etc... but they were in the same class. so if they are going to change the rules, why don't they kill bernie and max so we can have a sport that is meant to be the pinnacle of its kind with stable rules.

Quote from el pibe :

that is erm... quite queer.

so if the big teams accept to let new teams with the budget cap, there would be the teams that we have now with the current rules, and then some crappy team like ( FICTIONAL ) 123lola that has movables wings, engines that can do 40,000 RPM and a 1000bhp kers system ?

Apart from the fact that none of that will happen in reality.

It may look like an advantage for the capped teams but in practice it almost certainly won't be. They have to stay within the budget.. NO MATTER WHAT.. that limits what they will be able to achieve even when given a free reign technically.

"Everything is going ahead as planned," Mosley said. "It's a little bit more than 30 million but we have been successful."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74940

Whatever that "as planned" means then

A stable/retained rule set would suffice..making a whole new car/design/development every season for new rules is where the money goes.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/media ... 9/Pages/wmsc_290409a.aspx

Quote :

World Motor Sport Council
30/04/2009

2010 FIA Formula One World Championship

Applications to compete in the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship are to be submitted to the FIA during the period 22-29 May 2009. Teams must state in their application whether they wish to compete under cost-cap regulations.

The maximum number of cars permitted to enter the Championship has been increased to 26, two being entered by each competitor.

The FIA will publish the list of cars and drivers accepted on 12 June 2009, having first notified unsuccessful applicants.

Cost Cap Regulations

From 2010, all teams will have the option to compete with cars built and operated within a stringent cost cap.

The cost cap for 2010 will be £40m per annum*. This figure will cover all team expenditure except:

* Marketing and hospitality;
* Remuneration for test or race drivers, including any young driver programmes;
* Fines or penalties imposed by the FIA;
* Engine costs (for 2010 only);
* Any expenditure which the team can demonstrate has no influence on its performance in the Championship;
* Dividends (including any tax thereon) paid from profits relating to participation in the Championship.

For the purposes of these Regulations, the financial year is 1 January to 31 December.

A new Costs Commission is being set up to monitor and enforce these cost-cap financial regulations. The Costs Commission will consist of a Chairman and two other Commissioners, appointed by the WMSC for terms of three years.

One Commissioner should be a finance expert and the other should have high level experience in motor sport. The Chairman should have appropriate experience and standing in motor sport or sports governance. All members of the Costs Commission shall be independent of all teams.

In addition to the payments which it already makes to the top ten teams in the Championship, Formula One Management, the commercial rights holder, has agreed to offer participation fees and expenses to the new teams. This includes an annual payment of US$10 million to each team plus free transportation of two chassis and freight up to 10,000 kg in weight (not including the two chassis) as well as 20 air tickets (economy class) for each round trip for events held outside Europe.

To be eligible for this, each new team must qualify as a “Constructor” and demonstrate that it has the necessary facilities, financial resources and technical competence to compete effectively in Formula One.

To enable these cars to compete with those from teams which are not subject to cost constraints, the cost-capped cars will be allowed greater technical freedom.

The principal technical freedoms allowed are:

1. Movable wings, front and rear.
2. An engine which is not subject to a rev limit.

The teams will also be allowed unlimited out-of-season track testing with no restrictions on the scale and speed of wind tunnel testing.

Changes applicable to all teams

It was confirmed that from 2010, refuelling during a race will be forbidden in order to save the costs of transporting refuelling equipment and increase the incentive for engine builders to improve fuel economy (to save weight).

It was also confirmed that tyre blankets will be banned and that the ban on other tyre-heating devices will be maintained.

Full details plus information on further amendments to the 2010 Sporting and Technical Regulations will be available shortly on www.fia.com.

By exception, if supported by the Safety Commission, the FIA WMSC may approve the issue of the Formula One Super Licence to persons judged by the Council to have met the intent of the qualification process.

I don't get how this 40 million cap will be any good for the smaller teams, or get new teams in to the sport? Because if you already have huge facilities and your own test track you can use them every day if you just run the team withing the budget isn't that right? Well, I guess that 10 million bribe and free plain tickets are for that then.

Ban on fueling sounds good, but has a risk making everything really boring. Making more efficient engines sound good, but didn't they just ban engine development some time ago, some consistency FIA apes please. Also, which will save more money, transporting some refueling gear or manufactures developing new more efficient engines which will cost millions and millions.

Ban on tire warmers will get action, although it could have been better to get rid of the stupid and very non-economical tire changing rule at the same time. Makes no sense what so ever to talk about cost cutting, being economical and ecological when you enforce tire chances.

One thing left out of the press release, and could be interesting

Quote from 2010 Technical Regulations article 9.1 :

ARTICLE 9 : TRANSMISSION SYSTEM
9.1 Transmission types :
No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.
This Article will not apply to Cost-Regulated Teams.

Could we see this clause forgot about, and then Lola turn up with Marko Asmer, pwning everyone else with four wheel drive, movable wings, no rev limit and a F3 champion with a terrible GP2 record?

Yeah, the regs have been published: http://fia.com/en-GB/sport/reg ... OneWorldChampionship.aspx

There are lots of "not applying to Cost Regulated Teams" alterations.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Could we see this clause forgot about, and then Lola turn up with Marko Asmer, pwning everyone else with four wheel drive, movable wings, no rev limit and a F3 champion with a terrible GP2 record?

Hasn't it been like that for nearly 30 years though...?

Quote from deggis :

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/media ... 9/Pages/wmsc_290409a.aspx

Changes applicable to all teams

It was confirmed that from 2010, refuelling during a race will be forbidden in order to save the costs of transporting refuelling equipment and increase the incentive for engine builders to improve fuel economy (to save weight).

Well, that's a step in the right direction at least. I just wish they would get rid of pit stops all together. I hate the way pit stop strategy influences races. I want to see the best driver win on 100% merit not with any help from the team on tyre change and fuelling strategies.

Quote from gezmoor :

Well, that's a step in the right direction at least. I just wish they would get rid of pit stops all together. I hate the way pit stop strategy influences races. I want to see the best driver win on 100% merit not with any help from the team on tyre change and fuelling strategies.

????? This is F1 not athletics. I don't think there has EVER been a fair F1 race that purely rewards the best driver on the day. F1 is not really a sport as such but a competition between technicians and businessmen!