Quote from Intrepid :

..... Just stating TC is rubbish from a sporting perspective!

Depends on the circumstances. Many MotoGP riders have stated in the past that the bikes are just getting too powerfull. They're actually getting slower because of it. Unless there is another major shake up of the engine regs then there isn't any option but to incorporate a form of "artificial" engine power management. Not unless you'd rather be watching riders going even slower, or falling off, rather than racing each other.

Personally, I don't the fact that WSB is more entertaining to watch than MotoGP at the moment has got anything to do with the use of TC in MotoGP.

Quote from gezmoor :

Depends on the circumstances. Many MotoGP riders have stated in the past that the bikes are just getting too powerfull. They're actually getting slower because of it. Unless there is another major shake up of the engine regs then there isn't any option but to incorporate a form of "artificial" engine power management. Not unless you'd rather be watching riders going even slower, or falling off, rather than racing each other.

Personally, I don't the fact that WSB is more entertaining to watch than MotoGP at the moment has got anything to do with the use of TC in MotoGP.

They've stated the bikes are too fast, but I've never heard them state they want less control over that power.

What's next?! Indicators, headlights, GPS, navi? Hilarious...

@Gezmoor..

1) Whats the most powerfull bike you have ridden?

2) Have you ever ridden a bike on the track?

Going back to the topic of the 2010 F1 season, I'd like to put up a topic for discussion:
What do you folks think about the development of tyre pitstops when you can't refuel?
Since the pitlane is still as long as before but the amount of track time that can be gained by pitting more often diminishes (you can't carry less weight if you two-stop as opposed to one-stopping) I'd hazard the guess that teams will rather be contemplating no-stop versus one-stop strategies than the current one/two(/three)-stop strategies.
Alongside that point, if teams demand tyres that can take 90 minutes of racing, I'd love seeing several tyre manufacturers back in F1. It'd be pretty nice to see some cars/tyres perform better at the start, some better near mid-point and some better at the end.
Also note that from 2010 on tyre warmers will be forbidden. That means stone cold tyres for starts and pitstops (and likely teams that try to move their tyres into the sun before putting them on the car for that extra degree of heat ).

Vain

I think we'll still see pitstops, as we did before refuelling was reintroducted 15 years ago, but they won't dictate the race quite as much as they do now, and hence the racing will be better, and everyone will be happier. One-stops will be common I'd have thought, but the occasional team will continue with no-stops (unless the FIA keep the stupid rule about using both compounds).

A tyre war would also be great, although I would suspect that it wouldn't be as good as you suggest if the current qualifying format is kept, as performance over one lap (and hence being best at the beginning of a stint) would be a large design parameter.

Tyre warmers won't make any difference. You'll barely notice they've gone. After a pitstop the cars will be a smidgen slower for a few corners, but not dangerously or excessively.

I do hope that the tyres are changed, with a wider rear brought in as opposed to the supposed narrower front... F1 needs more reliance on mechanical grip and less on aero performance, something the wider rear would bring in both regards.

I wouldn't be surprised if the room where the tyres are kept gets heated up to some uncomfortable temperature for 2010.

Don't worry, we'll see the comeback of tyre ovens (unless they're explicitly forbidden) and teams will bring them out JUST before the car enters pit spot... It might make for more Ferrari-like moments where a team just forgets to bring a tyre (in time)...

Quote from tristancliffe :

I do hope that the tyres are changed, with a wider rear brought in as opposed to the supposed narrower front... F1 needs more reliance on mechanical grip and less on aero performance, something the wider rear would bring in both regards.

I hope they make the rears wider as well, but I read somewhere that the reason they are considering making the fronts narrower instead is that bridgestone already has the tooling to make the narrower tires, but it would cost them money to retool for bigger ones.

great now all they need to do is open up the engine regulations and were on our way back to where f1 should be

Quote from Vain :

Going back to the topic of the 2010 F1 season, I'd like to put up a topic for discussion:
What do you folks think about the development of tyre pitstops when you can't refuel?
Since the pitlane is still as long as before but the amount of track time that can be gained by pitting more often diminishes (you can't carry less weight if you two-stop as opposed to one-stopping) I'd hazard the guess that teams will rather be contemplating no-stop versus one-stop strategies than the current one/two(/three)-stop strategies.
Alongside that point, if teams demand tyres that can take 90 minutes of racing, I'd love seeing several tyre manufacturers back in F1. It'd be pretty nice to see some cars/tyres perform better at the start, some better near mid-point and some better at the end.
Also note that from 2010 on tyre warmers will be forbidden. That means stone cold tyres for starts and pitstops (and likely teams that try to move their tyres into the sun before putting them on the car for that extra degree of heat ).

Vain

I can see the shade scandals brewing already - "McLaren has positioned giant umbrellas over the Ferrari pit!" Good point though. I wonder what other "natural" warming devices teams will use. Big guys and spicy food? Where do I apply?

Regarding pit stops, I think the requirement will still be there to run the two compounds, so at least one stop is mandatory.

Shame for all the lads who have made a living out of being pit crews for years!

maybe they'll make it so if you make a pit stop you have to use both compounds but you can go the whole race without stopping if you so wish. given the wear rates on full fuel tanks it would be a very brave driver / team to risk being on completly shot tyres at the end of the race. on the other hand it will make ofr exciting races, i remember the days when most races were run without pit stops and you would have drivers pushing hard at the start to build a race and others taking it relatively easy for the first 12 or so laps and then closing at 3 seconds a lap at the end which made it very exciting and probably did murry walker's blood preasure no good at all.

Quote from evilgeek :

I hope they make the rears wider as well, but I read somewhere that the reason they are considering making the fronts narrower instead is that bridgestone already has the tooling to make the narrower tires, but it would cost them money to retool for bigger ones.

Yes, Autosport story iirc. Of course Bridgestone is not making the rules, but I wish they (and FIA) would get rid off these mandatory compounds. Now that new aero regs are allowing better racing and refuelling ban is going to help in that area even more. Making intentionally bad tyres is just idiotic.

Quote from danowat :

@Gezmoor..

1) Whats the most powerfull bike you have ridden?

2) Have you ever ridden a bike on the track?

How did I guess that you'd be asking me that..

1) A tuned Fireblade, mid 90's model. Admittedly not as powerful as todays 1ltr bikes, but I wouldn't have any worries about getting on a new Fireblade even a decade after not riding. I'm fully aware that it's all in the wrist.
That said, I've enough knowelege/experience of bikes of differing powers to know that there's a world of difference between even an R1 and a MotoGP bike. I'm not saying I couldn't get on a MotoGP bike and ride it around a track, probably could even ride it fast enough to scare myself silly. But I'm also honest enough to know that I wouldn't be doing anything more than cruising on it.

2) Yes, though I've never raced. Don't remember exacty how many track days I've done but I've done 2-3 days each on Donnington & Brands Hatch GP circuits, Castle Coombe, Goodwood and Malory Park. Plus a Race School day at Donnington. I got quick enough to move in to the "quick/advanced" group just before I had my bike stolen.

I've had first hand experience of being out on a track, (mallory) at the same time as a real motorcycle racer, (John Reynolds), on his Superbike preparing for the weekends race meet. So I know just how much faster guys like him are than even very quick road riders and junior club racers. One thing that that experience really drove home to me is just how fearless and skillful those guys are and how very few people on this planet could ever be as good as guys like Reynolds. And the likes of Rossi are in another league again.

So when the likes of Rossi et al say that todays MotoGP bikes are getting "too powerful" (not too fast - there's a difference) to ride then I am in no position to argue, given what I've experienced and seen with my own eyes.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I think we'll still see pitstops, as we did before refuelling was reintroducted 15 years ago, but they won't dictate the race quite as much as they do now, and hence the racing will be better, and everyone will be happier. One-stops will be common I'd have thought, but the occasional team will continue with no-stops (unless the FIA keep the stupid rule about using both compounds).

A tyre war would also be great, although I would suspect that it wouldn't be as good as you suggest if the current qualifying format is kept, as performance over one lap (and hence being best at the beginning of a stint) would be a large design parameter.

Tyre warmers won't make any difference. You'll barely notice they've gone. After a pitstop the cars will be a smidgen slower for a few corners, but not dangerously or excessively.

I do hope that the tyres are changed, with a wider rear brought in as opposed to the supposed narrower front... F1 needs more reliance on mechanical grip and less on aero performance, something the wider rear would bring in both regards.

Agree with all of that, (except maybe the bit about wider tyres).

I'd really like to see pit stop strategy taken out of racing as much as possible. I also think the enforced compound changes are pointless to say nothing of being un "eco friendly" as we're supposed to worry about such things these days. I'd love to see the day when F1 drivers are having to look after their tyres and still risk having to do the last few laps on worn out ones. And no, I don't want to see that just because Hamilton is crap at looking after his tyres, (so is Massa an he's one of my favorite drivers - purely because he's Brasilian like my wife!). I just think F1 needs to be more about overall driver skill and as far away from "hot lapper" mentality as possible. Though I've always though F1 races are too long, purely because there simply isn't enough action to hold my attention for upwards of 1 and a half hours.

Some spice to the MotoGP & TC discussion...

Rossi: "For sure the 800cc is a more boring bike compared to the 990cc: there's too much electronics," he told Italian magazine Motosprint.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71809 (Oct 2008)

and TC ban might be on the agenda:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72179 (Nov 2008)

Would a super hard tyre for 0-stop strategy give so little pickup that new lines emerges? (i.e you can drive exotic lines to help overtaking, where you now can't becuase it's a graveltrap of rubber there)

I doubt it. It didn't before pitstops were so common, so I doubt it would do again - although tyre technology has moved on a long way since then. It didn't a couple of years back when fuel stops were allowed, but the tyres had to do the whole race.

I say, F1 cars should be the most powered cars of Single Seaters or otherwise they are not F1 cars. At The Moment, Formula 1 sucks as changing rules all the time

Just ban the whole F1 and go Formula BMW for example

F1 next year will be Much faster then any other season by far its obvious, soo much technical freedom avilable if you stick to the 40mil cap, without major guidelines the cars Could be over 5 seconds quicker then this years.

I hope this means the Engine freeze is lifted as well.

i was wondering how much difference the unlimited revs will make to the teams as the current engines have now been optimised for 18,000 rpm or at best 19,000 rpm. additionally they'll still have the same restrictions on number of engines plus the extra heat of higher revs can make a large difference to the aero, mercedes engines in particular have found they can go a lot smaller on radiators since they dropped to 18,000 rpm. obviously any engine supplier might be able to find a way of producing a higher rev engine and still stay under the cost cap for supplying engines but i suspect the FIA will soon be investigating if they think they're being supplied at a loss.


what i still havent seen is an explanation of what will happen if the "free reg" cars become too fast, how will they work out how to slow them down and then reduce the speed of the big budget cars by the same amount

Quote from tinvek :

what i still havent seen is an explanation of what will happen if the "free reg" cars become too fast, how will they work out how to slow them down and then reduce the speed of the big budget cars by the same amount

that's because the FIA hasn't thought about it at all. they are running with scissors.

Politically, I think Mosley wants the capped cars to be faster.

Instead of posting all new threads and all that shit, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Formula_One_season

Change the year and you can see lots of info, i didn't know this myself. (some of it are problably not going to happend, but still) And some of you allready watch it problably.