[SEE BOTTOM FOR LINK TO PICTURE AND SPECS]
So, I recently bought a 850watt, Thermaltake Black Widow Power Supply from Best buy. I got it middle of February, worked great until about 3 weeks ago. Here's my problem, and question, I'll be brief.

My computer is randomly freezing, but more commonly restarting on it's own, and rarely, it simply shuts off. All of my temps are good, CPU, GPU, and a few other temps my little application called "HardwareMonitor" tells me about. Basically my temps haven't changed at all, before the install of this PSU, and after.

At first I wasn't sure what the problem might be, because when I upgraded, I upgraded my power supply, video card, and memory. Well, I'm certain the video card is fine, I just don't see how it could cause this. My memory wouldn't cause "all" of this behavior, and I "NEVER" get errors, none at all, just the problems I spoke of above.

So, it must be the power supply correct? Also, it's much worse when the weather is hot, this has only happened once when the temperature in my house was below 70*F. However, we had a heat wave the last 5 days leading up till today, and it was constantly restarting on me during the day, however, at night when it cooled off, it didn't happen, at all.
In fact, about 30 minutes ago was the very first time it gave me trouble when the tempurature was below 70, in fact it was 69*F in here when it happened. I'm on the PC right now, just ran 3dMark 06, and played some Crysis(Crysis gets this machine hotter than anything else).

I called best buy, and even tho I'm past the 30 day return/exchange policy, the manager agreed to exhance my power supply (Which was $199.99us btw) because he said it's one of the few items he can return to the manufacturer and get credit for. So tomorrow I'm gonna take out my PSU, and go grab another.

!!!! Does anyone have any idea's what it could be, "just in case" it's not the PSU, and I wind up with the same issues with my new power supply? I'm posting this now so I'll hopefully have answers by the time I get my new PSU tomorrrow, and I turn out unlucky and have the same problems with the new PSU. THANK YOU soo much in advance fella's, I can't live without this machine. I don't just game on it, I'm an audio engineer and I have a lot of work to do, and my laptop isn't powerful enough to run Pro Tools, nor does it have firewire, USB 2.0 isn't fast enough to avoid lag with my Mic's and MIDI interfaces.

http://thermaltake.us/Product.aspx?C=1264&ID=1830#Tab1 <<Link showing picture of unit and specs>>

Thanks again, Dave

Virus or something..

Extremely unlikely, I only game and produce music on this machine, this problem didn't start until the upgrade. But thanks for the tip, I'll still keep it in mind if after the new PSU problems persist.

Quote :

I called best buy, and even tho I'm past the 30 day return/exchange policy, the manager agreed to exhance my power supply (Which was $199.99us btw) because he said it's one of the few items he can return to the manufacturer and get credit for.

What? One of the few items...what did that mean? Do the PSU manufacturer not give at least a one year warranty? For that money I'd want a warranty

To be honest, I'd say the fact that the manager told you this means there is something up with this make/model of PSU and obviously you are not the first to claim.

Oh, and don't be such a tool to say it's extremely unlikely to have a virus

Hopefully the PSU is borked and you'll be on yer way in no time, if that fails were all here to help nit-pick those fault finding lists and get you up and running

It has a FIVE year warrenty, I guess this went over your head entirely. What the manager meant was once you pass the 30 days they can't do anything, but since it's an item that Best Buy will get credit for, he agreed to help me out.(Which he's doing as a favor for me, since I've spent a LOT of money there) And I'm not being a tool (whatever the fuk that is...), I'm absolutely certain it's not a virus. Why would a virus ONLY act up when the computer gets hot...c'mon man, I've been working with computers a long time, I just wanted input on this. I'm looking for advice, not pointless posts about being a tool from people that are clueless.

LMAO!!! Easy there horsey

Lemme explain something, if I were to own you and your PC and network you would be the 'tool' enabling me to access your data, without you being the tool I could have no data....Oh.no.wait! this thread is for teh smart ppl only

smartarse, GFY and your PSU

The manager is not doing you any favours, despite what he's telling you. Don't take any crap from him about getting credit, it's not your problem at all. It has a warranty, so you can bung it back as faulty with a receipt at any stage within the 5 years, to get a repair, replacement or refund, of your choice (that's your options over here anyway, the least you're entitled to is a replacement). If the manufacturer doesn't accept returns (which is nonsense, otherwise there wouldn't be a 5 year warranty), it's still your entitlement to get a replacement to a faulty item.

That heat definitely shouldn't affect a PSU, that's only 20°C, which isn't hot at all. Have you probed the motherboard's northbridge and southbridge for temps? I find my northbridge can get very hot during the summer, up in the 60s and 70s, celcius, unless I crank up the fans. Have you checked that all fans are working, including the PSU fan?

Also you should run a memtest, to rule out RAM. You might think it isn't the problem, but our Dell suddenly decided to start randomly locking up until I removed half of its RAM (It came with 256MB, I put in 3GB, exact same specs as the original stuff). It was working fine with the upgraded RAM for about 6 months before the trouble started.

When you say the CPU and GPU temps are fine, how fine is fine after a good Crysis session (I know what you mean about it giving a good workout, it's the best stress test I've found for the whole system )? Have you considered you might be putting it under more stress during the day, than during the night?

If it's not the PSU, it could be literally anything. A PC restarting is such a broad problem, you need to narrow it down. The easiest thing to test is the RAM, as you can run memtest and leave it overnight or whatever. After that you need to carefully monitor temperatures while playing Crysis or whatever to get it worked up. Also, make sure that there isn't a BIOS setting that makes the machine reboot or shutdown if the temps get above a certain value. Unlikely, but it could be

Also, no need to be such a dick to those trying to help you. Nowhere does it mention a warranty in your OP.

Mmm check ram voltages as they change and would cause random restarts on my machine a while ago.

Quote from CSU1 :

LMAO!!! Easy there horsey

Lemme explain something, if I were to own you and your PC and network you would be the 'tool' enabling me to access your data, without you being the tool I could have no data....Oh.no.wait! this thread is for teh smart ppl only

smartarse, GFY and your PSU

GFY? Where you from? .... I don't argue on the internet, so I won't play your immature game. You don't tell ppl GFY, are you 13 yrs old? You call me a tool and expect me to overlook that? This is a public board, PM me if you have issues, as will I after this post if you do so. In the meantime, don't insult people for asking for help. Say that to a marine in person, watch what happens.

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

The manager is not doing you any favours, despite what he's telling you. Don't take any crap from him about getting credit, it's not your problem at all. It has a warranty, so you can bung it back as faulty with a receipt at any stage within the 5 years, to get a repair, replacement or refund, of your choice (that's your options over here anyway, the least you'rentitled to is a replacement). If the manufacturer doesn't accept returns (which is nonsense, otherwise there wouldn't be a 5 year warranty), it's still your entitlement to get a replacement to a faulty item.

That heat definitely shouldn't affect a PSU, that's only 20°C, which isn't hot at all. Have you probed the motherboard's northbridge and southbridge for temps? I find my northbridge can get very hot during the summer, up in the 60s and 70s, celcius, unless I crank up the fans. Have you checked that all fans are working, including the PSU fan?

Also you should run a memtest, to rule out RAM. You might think it isn't the problem, but our Dell suddenly decided to start randomly locking up until I removed half of its RAM (It came with 256MB, I put in 3GB, exact same specs as the original stuff). It was working fine with the upgraded RAM for about 6 months before the trouble started.

When you say the CPU and GPU temps are fine, how fine is fine after a good Crysis session (I know what you mean about it giving a good workout, it's the best stress test I've found for the whole system )? Have you considered you might be putting it under more stress during the day, than during the night?

If it's not the PSU, it could be literally anything. A PC restarting is such a broad problem, you need to narrow it down. The easiest thing to test is the RAM, as you can run memtest and leave it overnight or whatever. After that you need to carefully monitor temperatures while playing Crysis or whatever to get it worked up. Also, make sure that there isn't a BIOS setting that makes the machine reboot or shutdown if the temps get above a certain value. Unlikely, but it could be

Also, no need to be such a dick to those trying to help you. Nowhere does it mention a warranty in your OP.

What, you think I bought a $200 PSU without a warrenty? C'mon man, I thought you ppl would assume I got a warrenty, how in the world would I not get one?
Okay, here go's. The manager 'is' doing me a favor, the warrenty is a manufactureres warrenty, so technically I should have to send the PSU back to the manu to get it replaced, so he is in fact doing me a favor letting me exchange it, since the exchange policy is 30 days, and it's been nearly 70.

All fans are working, nothing is overheating, I've tested the memory, and also swapped it out with memory I know for certain works. I removed the GPU's to be sure, same issues. I'm absolutely certain heat is the issue, somehow, it only gives me trouble when it's hot in my room. After 3dmark and Crysis my temps are fine, I leave a program I have for monitoringi temps open while I play, when I'm done I can see how hot every part of the PC got, and nothing overheated. And no I don't run the PC harder at night than during the day, I game randomly, day and night.

I think the internal fan of the PSU doesn't work. I'll test that now. Thanks for the advice, and don't ever call me a dick again, that's pretty ignorant, grow up. I may have been a little rude, having been called a "TOOL", and the irony, I get a little offended, and you go ahead and call me a dick, which is worse than what I did. Are you people seriously stupid? Forget it, I don't want your advice. So far I've gotten no valuable advice as is, I've already tested the obvious stuff you've mentioned, and although I appreciate the effort and time you took to post, this is a waste. How dare you call me a dick, you don't know me. Just another pussy talking shit behind the safety of a computer screen. Think about how ignorant it was of you to say that, seriously. You wouldn't like being called a TOOL either, unless it has some other meaning where you dudes are from.

Thanks for calling me a dick. What the hell is wrong with you? I'll ask a mod to delete this thread since you guys can't help but call each other dicks and tools. I hope you see how pathetic it is to say such things on a forum. Don't think for a second it means anything to me, I'm a grown ass man. But I like this forum, and would prefer that language were left off the board. Jeez, grow the hell up ppl, so sad you can get offended by simple text on a computer screen. I can't imagine the type of person you are in real life, maybe you should join the military, let them straighten your smart ass out.

Quote from DHRammstein :

I don't argue on the internet, so I won't play your immature game.
...
How dare you call me a dick, you don't know me. Just another pussy talking shit behind the safety of a computer screen. Think about how ignorant it was of you to say that, seriously. You wouldn't like being called a TOOL either, unless it has some other meaning where you dudes are from.

Thanks for calling me a dick. What the hell is wrong with you? I'll ask a mod to delete this thread since you guys can't help but call each other dicks and tools. I hope you see how pathetic it is to say such things on a forum. Don't think for a second it means anything, but I like this forum, and would prefer that language were left off the board
...
Jeez, grow the hell up ppl, so sad you can get offended by simple text on a computer screen.

Irony much?

Also, you never mentioned warranty. You said the store gave you 30 days to return it, which anyone would assume is a warranty. Also, I can't believe that the manufacturer expects you to send it to them at your expense? The store is obliged to take it back, and send it back to the manufacturer

If the PSU fan doesn't work, why didn't you bring it back straight away, or when it stopped working? And if you've already tested everything else, why haven't you at least tried another PSU? If you know so much about it, and have tried everything else, why are you even asking here

I'm not easily offended by what people say to me either, especially in digital form. If you get so worked up that easily over a piece of advice, I'd highly doubt you're in USMC. And I don't jump down others' throats because they've made an assumption, due to lack of information.

(BTW, you might be a Marine, whoop-dee-doo. That's just internet tough-guy talk. I'm Irish RDF for what it's worth :shrug

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

Irony much?

Also, you never mentioned warranty. You said the store gave you 30 days to return it, which anyone would assume is a warranty. Also, I can't believe that the manufacturer expects you to send it to them at your expense? The store is obliged to take it back, and send it back to the manufacturer

If the PSU fan doesn't work, why didn't you bring it back straight away, or when it stopped working? And if you've already tested everything else, why haven't you at least tried another PSU? If you know so much about it, and have tried everything else, why are you even asking here

I'm not easily offended by what people say to me either, especially in digital form. If you get so worked up that easily over a piece of advice, I'd highly doubt you're in USMC. And I don't jump down others' throats because they've made an assumption, due to lack of information.

(BTW, you might be a Marine, whoop-dee-doo. That's just internet tough-guy talk. I'm Irish RDF for what it's worth :shrug

No, the 30 days to return it would be the return policy....I just don't get how you don't understand that.
I never said the manu wanted me to send it back at my expense.
The store is not obligated to take it back after I've had it nearly 3 months, when there's only a 30 day return policy!!!!!!
I didn't say the PSU fan didn't work, I said I think it may not be working, I'm testing it at this very moment, I'm on my laptop right now.
I don't have another PSU to test it with, my spare died on my shelf, dunno how.
Dude I was asking here, to get advice, I don't know "everything". Why are you acting like this? I actually want you to answer this question, since I answered all of yours, and in doing so revealed exactly how presumptuous you are.
There was no lack of information. Why can't you just stop posting in this thread? Because you're a crybaby and you gotta get the last word in, well, go ahead and have it. And don't speak of Irish RDF...lol, what a joke. I laugh at that. They strike such fear in their enemies, probably all alcoholics with beer guts; there, that's for calling me a dick.
Wanna prove your the bigger man, stop posting in this thread. If you can't stop, your just a whiny bitch.

You ridicule me because of how I posted my questions and keep on and on like you can't stop. Actually **** this, I was trying to get some insight and you've gotta turn it into some childish bullshit. If you knew how to read, and make sense of what you read, you'd realize what I said what I said, lastly, why would I care if you beleived what I do for a living, like I'll ever meet you, you're not even a person to me, you're an avatar.
So lets see if you can stop posting here, until it's deleted, DICK.

[PM sent]

Listen Lads, all I can say is It's been comical.

DH, you suck ass in every way.

2c

I smell an Inferiority complex.

This is the first time I've encountered anything like this on this board, thought it was civilized here. CSU1 please just let it go... illepall

Quote from DHRammstein :

GFY? Where you from? .... I don't argue on the internet, so I won't play your immature game. You don't tell ppl GFY, are you 13 yrs old? You call me a tool and expect me to overlook that? This is a public board, PM me if you have issues, as will I after this post if you do so. In the meantime, don't insult people for asking for help. Say that to a marine in person, watch what happens.

In the UK (not sure how it works in the US) the 5 year warranty probably is with the manufacturer, however you get a standard 1 years warranty with anything, which is with the retailer.

In the UK companies often say "oh sorry it's outside of 28 days, go away, phone the manufacturer" etc - but by law they DO have to accept it.

Quote from DHRammstein :

No, the 30 days to return it would be the return policy....I just don't get how you don't understand that.
I never said the manu wanted me to send it back at my expense.
The store is not obligated to take it back after I've had it nearly 3 months, when there's only a 30 day return policy!!!!!!

I think you'll find they are - a quality PSU weighs a lot, it's in no way fair to say that if it breaks after 30 days you have to send it back to whatever far-flung location their repair centre is and pay for the priveledge.


Are you telling me if Best Buy had a faulty bid of hardware after 28 days then the manufacturer wouldn't give them a new bit?

Quote from Jakg :

Are you telling me if Best Buy had a faulty bid of hardware after 28 days then the manufacturer wouldn't give them a new bit?

Best Buy cannot get credit from manufacturers on all items they carry, therefor, some items they sell they can't take back after the return/exchange policy has expired. My particular PSU is one that they will get credit for, so the manager of the store is letting me exchange it, even tho he doesn't have to.


Okay, I'm gonna try really hard to be clear, maybe I'm just not taking the time to explain this properly.

Okay, I bought a brand new PSU from Best Buy two and a half months ago. Best Buy has a 30 day return/exchange policy, if it breaks after that, you must send it to the company that manufactured the item, and have them return you a new one. Yes, I would be required to pay for the shipping 'to' the manufacturer, they'd pay to ship the new one back.

I've had this PSU a long time, long after Best Buy's policy ran out. Technically, I should have to send it to the manufacturer to have it replaced, which is perfectly normal here, in the U.S. However, I spoke with a manager at Best Buy, explained to him what happened, how long it's been, and I'd appreciate it if he could help me out somehow. He took my phone number, said he needed to check and see if it were an item Best Buy could get credit for from the manufacturer, he called me back ten minutes later and said that they could get credit, and since I've been a long time customer, he'd do it this once. So today I got my new PSU, and my PC is fixed. Problem solved.

Ah - seems that in the UK you have a contract with the retailer, but not in the US.

FWIW I wouldn't say your trade is so important to the store - the margin on hardware is very very slim.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I smell an Inferiority complex.

, remind's me of my ol' friend Oscar.

The works of a self confessed narcissist

Tbh, this thread was only going one way from the OP - I don't understand why a certified Microsoft Systems engineer is asking us how to fault-find hardware...

So how long did that PSU last you? Just a couple of months? That doesn't sound right, PSUs usually last a good year or two when used heavily.

Quote from CSU1 :

...... - I don't understand why a certified Microsoft Systems engineer is asking us how to fault-find hardware...

MSCE certification only covers use of Microsoft OS software, plus a few of their biggest selling software products, (depending on which elective you choose). It doesn't teach you anything about how a computer actually works. Plus IME you don't have to be all that smart, (or knowledgeable), to gain the certification either, (not saying the OP isn't smart just stating a fact).

I actually find it really sad that employers put so much store in what are effectively pretty piss poor certifications such as MCP, MCSE, CCNA etc. All of which teach you no more than anyone with half a brain could pick up in 6 months or less. Passing an old fasioned O Level is a lot harder, (oh they don't do them any more do they.. wonder why? )

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

So how long did that PSU last you? Just a couple of months? That doesn't sound right, PSUs usually last a good year or two when used heavily.

Theirs no reason what so ever that a PSU shouldn't work faultlessly for well over 5 years, irrespective of how "heavily" it's used. Assuming it's been installed according to manufacturers instructions and isn't underrated for what you expect of it.

That's absolutely not true, I've had to switch my PSU every 2 years, granted they weren't top of the line PSUs, just generic ones, but still they couldn't take more than 2 years before they would start making noises, then finally give up. This is on a low-end PC not a high-end PC, the PSUs had more than enough power to power the system, they just weren't built for longevity.

Quote from gezmoor :

MSCE certification only covers use of Microsoft OS software, plus a few of their biggest selling software products, (depending on which elective you choose). It doesn't teach you anything about how a computer actually works. Plus IME you don't have to be all that smart, (or knowledgeable), to gain the certification either, (not saying the OP isn't smart just stating a fact).

I actually find it really sad that employers put so much store in what are effectively pretty piss poor certifications such as MCP, MCSE, CCNA etc. All of which teach you no more than anyone with half a brain could pick up in 6 months or less. Passing an old fasioned O Level is a lot harder, (oh they don't do them any more do they.. wonder why? )

Ah, I see. It's just that it leaves the impression that a person might have half a brain when they present themself's as an IT pro with various certifications etc under their belt.

For me two things just don't add up 1. the fact that the original PSU somehow by magiska stopped working when lying on a shelf doing nothing between the time the new PSU was installed and when the new PSU failed

2. Half-wit thread names and blatant disregard civilized conversation coupled with lack of facts and testing results, for any person used to working in an IT environment this is standard procedure.

As I said in my OP it very may well be the PSU, but my money is on either a virus(mis configured system settings), or motherboard fault.

OT: Myself and dougie-lampkin have been bombarded with the most childish PM's congaing some extreme graphic actions and violent threats - the kind of stuff you don't show to your kids I would be very surprised if the OP was older than 16 yo...

Not a nice person.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

That's absolutely not true, I've had to switch my PSU every 2 years, granted they weren't top of the line PSUs, just generic ones, but still they couldn't take more than 2 years before they would start making noises, then finally give up. This is on a low-end PC not a high-end PC, the PSUs had more than enough power to power the system, they just weren't built for longevity.

Well, I guess you get what you pay for I've worked in companies for nearly 20 years and I have never known PSUs to "break" as a matter of course every two years. Plenty of places I've worked we've had the vast majority of machines remain completely hardware reliable for the entire period they were deployed, (well over 2 years in nearly every case), in fact many of them were "sold on" in a working condition.

Even on a personal level I don't know anyone who owns a pc that has had their PSU fail on them. In fact as far as I can make out looking around various forums etc the only people I ever hear of with PSU failures are either the odd unlucky person that got a faulty unit in the first place, or people that self build, overclock or otherwise mess around with their machines.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

That's absolutely not true, I've had to switch my PSU every 2 years, granted they weren't top of the line PSUs, just generic ones, but still they couldn't take more than 2 years before they would start making noises, then finally give up. This is on a low-end PC not a high-end PC, the PSUs had more than enough power to power the system, they just weren't built for longevity.

For me, some generic chinese 300W PSU lasts already over 4 year in mine server, which runs 24/7/365

It became very noisy tho