I think it was Maserati Trofeo cup where TC is used in race.

For road use I would like to have TC, stability control and ABS with loud buzzer that warns when system is activated so that driver would understand to slow down, today many has these features but they drive 100kph while dash is like christmas tree, warning that system is in control not driver, without those systems driver would been crashed long time, but there is no feeling at all only those lights, car is not telling nowdays that it is slippery.
This is because many car maganize reporters comment that car is good to drive when it is like sitting on sofa and watching tv, which I find very wrong, car should feel nerveous when it is near to loose grip, it is way to car telling driver that slowdown.
Well then car manufacturers are reading this and order to design car that is completely dull without any feedback from grip.

That is reason why I prefer older cars without any help systems as those old systems were crap and some of today's systems are crap too, some are great, specially sports cars TC systems, they improve lap times with good drivers too, of course all best drivers are still faster, but there is not many of them.

But as I said, for road I like to have all nice helpers for track nothing

So for sim then, I think possibility to have TC and ABS is good, but should be serverside option to be able to forbid those, also user should have possibility to turn them off. ABS is always easy to disable, take out the fuse, TC might be bit tricky one, but disconnecting wheel speed sensors should do the job

What was this thread about again??

Ahhhh, that's right the LX8 GTR and grid girls

TC is a good thing for the majority of people who know bugger all about driving, along with ABS etc. Maybe we should remove airbags and let people slam their heads into steering wheels and dashboards again? Even better, lets remove collapsible steering coloums so the driver gets impaled like in the old days.

Lets face it, if technology makes cars safer for all those around it, then what's the problem? You have to look at the big picture and not just own personal preference. If it offers more safety for the majority, then majority rules. Sure some features on some cars may encourage a rich idiot to push his Enzo harder... put lets face it, with or without these aids the same rich idiot is still gonna buy the Enzo and push it beyond his limits anyway.

In motor sport though, I prefer raw mechanical racing. Man v's Machine. Hence my current dislike for modern F1, which is more like AI v's Man. Gimme the good old days, where the cars were raw and the driving talent was real... kinda like what the LX8 GTR would offer us

Having said that, I'm often told to turn TC ON in the BF1 - what, you don't like my often sideways action through turns (resulting in a trip into the sand or grass - damn minimal steering lock, who designs these cars anyways??) One day I'll master the throttle control in that car without TC

I agree here with some points made and disagree with others... but to sum it up (again): Adding electronic devices to supercars spoils the fun for those who could do without and saves the butts of those who can't.

In real life - since i'm able NOT to overrate my driving skills - I'm not to unhappy if i find a "powerful" car to be equipped with TC, it's just....that you can relax a bit and not need to drive with a knife between your teeth at all times...even if its a Alfa 147 (with 150 turbodiesl bhp) on sicilian mountain roads....
I simply dislike the thought having in RL the same crashes as in LFS..

And for all the supercars out there with all that gadgetery.. in the end, the market (i.e. rich customers) decides, what's being added to a car, not us who mostly will never be able to afford it...

Quote from tristancliffe :

Most people don't actually know what black ice IS, let alone how to predict/recover from it, and TC won't save you if you drive along blissfully unaware of the threat.

nope, tc wont save you but vsc/vsd or what ever the manufacture calls is will

Quote from tristancliffe :

ABS on the other hand has real world benefits. I myself still like to NOT have it, as I have learnt how to cadance brake in emergency situations (and I've tested it succesfully too). But 99% of people don't even know what cadance braking is, let alone how to do it. They just see a Go pedal and a Stop pedal, and to stop quicker, no matter what the situation, they press Stop harder and harder. Thus ABS works in reality. TC just spoils the fun. In the UK one of the few things that isn't directly forbidden is acceleration. It is perfectly legal to accelerate as fast as any car is capable of, though you might get booked for driving without due care and attention.

ABS is one thing VSD is another, no matter how good you are, or how good you think you are YOU cannot individually brake each wheel, have a look at one of the old fifth gear episode's tiff (ex f1 driver) takes a jag with VSD onto a swedish iced lake and trys to go around 3 obsticles at 80 mph, the first time without VSD, he ends up in the snow banks, the second time with vsd, he just carmly turn around them, vsd work by individually braking the wheels and PREVENTING understeer and oversteer, any idiot can do emergency swerves under heavy braking and can turn the car as if there driving normally, have a look at the test you will be surprissed

I saw it, and it looked like a crap test. Tiff didn't drive ANYTHING LIKE he would have been doing had it been an accident. he made no attempt to countersteer, or panic, and there's every that doing so would have rendered the systems less effective. Also the car seemed to dig in.

Whilst undoubtedly those systems can save lives, and I have no objection to having them on road cars (as long as I can turn off the fun restricting ones when I want to). But we were talking about TC originally, not ABS/Stability Control etc, and that, I believe, has very little place on a car other than to make them more boring.

But for some reason people don't mind all the good/super cars becoming sanitised. That's why I love the Stratos and the Miura. Uncomfy, heavy control, hot, totally impracticle, but go like the clappers (in their day) and look like Sex on Wheels. THAT is what a supercar should be. Not a trumped up Ford Focus with bling all over it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But for some reason people don't mind all the good/super cars becoming sanitised. That's why I love the Stratos and the Miura. Uncomfy, heavy control, hot, totally impracticle, but go like the clappers (in their day) and look like Sex on Wheels. THAT is what a supercar should be. Not a trumped up Ford Focus with bling all over it.

o/t

how about a TVR , shame they are closing the factory down in Blackpool

Quote from The Dide :

I agree here with some points made and disagree with others... but to sum it up (again): Adding electronic devices to supercars spoils the fun for those who could do without and saves the butts of those who can't.

As this thread is already OT, I have to disagree.
IMHO, electronic driving aids don't save lives in "supercars" (note: I think it's a good thing my 50 HP diesel has abs ), but make their drivers largely overestimate their ablities, which then leads to even more lethal crashes at much higher velocities... Because even the very well working, high tech aids have their limits, and once you reach them (often unwarned), theres nothing that can save you.

Yup, quite like TVR's, but it's not the same since Peter Wheeler was ousted by that 3 year old russian. And they REALLY need to hire someone old enough to design interiors, and remove the sledge hammers from the design workshop.

But we do own the old style Griffith, and it's even got the manly stub axles that fall off when you least expect it

What's wrong with TVR interiors? The original tuscan "cockpit" was great (the mk2 one just looks like a bad attempt at cost cutting). Mmm, brass...

TVR would suit well to LFS

We used to have an original Tuscan that my Dad raced, but I suspect we're talking different 'original' tuscans here...

And I don't like the interiors. Silly swoops and seams, cheap looking leather and shiny bits. It's the sort of thing you 'design' when you're 6, not sell as a world reknowned sports car manufactuer. If I had to buy a TVR it would be a Tamora I think, or a Speed12 (!) with the holes filled in.

Quote from tristancliffe :

We used to have an original Tuscan that my Dad raced, but I suspect we're talking different 'original' tuscans here...

And I don't like the interiors. Silly swoops and seams, cheap looking leather and shiny bits. It's the sort of thing you 'design' when you're 6, not sell as a world reknowned sports car manufactuer. If I had to buy a TVR it would be a Tamora I think, or a Speed12 (!) with the holes filled in.

I saw Top Gear or something where they put ppl into new TVR and asked to start engine and get out from car, none of them managed to do that

I agree totally your opinion from those interiors.

But older TVR is nice :lovies3d:

Complety O/T on lx's
TVR's are as supercars should be. Not electronics just driver and machine. The interiors arent great but i like the sagaris. Makes me feel like a little boy and that i should go buy a poster and put on my bedroom wall

Quote from tristancliffe :

We used to have an original Tuscan that my Dad raced, but I suspect we're talking different 'original' tuscans here..

Well that's TVRs fault for making 4 completely different cars called the Tuscan. But I digress. Just wait until we can make add-on cars, I'll re-make all the TVRs you'll ever want.

Still no LX8... /me taps foot and checks watch...

Ahh... i'm glad someone mentioned TVR as a response to numpty aids

air bags? well dont crash then....
traction control? you have a right foot dont you?
ABS? again.. learn to use your feet properly

ditto with lotus & caterham.


have loved the LX cars since getting S2 - tho did find them over skittish compared to the real thing, tho havnt had too much time behind the wheel since loading T. always felt putting a V8 engine in 7esq cars was against the premise of supercar slaying performance from light, nimble & responsive 4pot engines that can carry bags of speed through corners... set up with a 50:50 weight distribution, and Chapman's view that so long as you can dial in enough lock, you can pull back almost any rear slide - find Jim Clark in the 66 south african GP - back end slides out on exit... full lock and wait for the back end to return.

a LX8 GTR with a 400hp wankel engine, slicks and wings would be awesome