Probably he meant just Montoya by that waiting a good place to make a pass 
Yeah, and on the subject of really fast guys and leaving room on the exit.
I remember a while ago, when I was just starting to get reasonably competitive, I ended up having a really good battle with an alien who shall remain nameless on FE gold, keeping him behind me for a lap or so. But running down the long straight along the tram tracks, he got really close then made a move into the lefthander at the end.
I could see he'd probably get alongside, so I left a cars width at the apex. He got three quarters past me in the turn, then moved all the way over to the right hand kerb on exit assuming that he'd cleared me, but he hadnt and so his rear quarter hit my front quarter, sending him spinning off to the right.
He had a bit of a go at me, and at the time I wasnt really sure what had happened so grovelled apologies in the presence of the master. But on watching the replay is was as clear as day that it was his mistake. He'd just assumed he was so much faster than he would have cleared me in the corner, and didnt leave a cars width on the exit.
I remember a while ago, when I was just starting to get reasonably competitive, I ended up having a really good battle with an alien who shall remain nameless on FE gold, keeping him behind me for a lap or so. But running down the long straight along the tram tracks, he got really close then made a move into the lefthander at the end.
I could see he'd probably get alongside, so I left a cars width at the apex. He got three quarters past me in the turn, then moved all the way over to the right hand kerb on exit assuming that he'd cleared me, but he hadnt and so his rear quarter hit my front quarter, sending him spinning off to the right.
He had a bit of a go at me, and at the time I wasnt really sure what had happened so grovelled apologies in the presence of the master. But on watching the replay is was as clear as day that it was his mistake. He'd just assumed he was so much faster than he would have cleared me in the corner, and didnt leave a cars width on the exit.
Sometimes I say sorry no matter what because it's easier to just stick your hand up and admit blame than upset someone, but I do sometimes despair at how fickle the LFS population is. In the real racing I do appologies are rarely made, a race is long (I do enduro) and it's hard to hold a grudge until the chequered flag - you just have to get on with it.
Saying sorry seems to be somewhat mandatory in LFS - whether it's your own fault or not. I've probably got a reputation for crashing by my name appearing in big pink letters on everyones screen saying "sorry" every 5 laps, but better than then a teenage hormone junkie throwing a hissie fit !
Why would he have any right to be angry?
If someone behind me is significantly faster, I will let off the gas and let them through or go wide on a corner.
This is why I like to start on the grid next to last ( and because im slow anyway) that way let the agressive ones sort it out in the first corner. I also like being the hunter, its more of a challenge to me.
So, if you see me on the track, the only reason you may of spin out because of me is becuase of an error in trying to read what the faster will be doing.
Its great to win, but not everyone can be the winner. So I let the leaders go by; anything less is uncouth.
This is why I like to start on the grid next to last ( and because im slow anyway) that way let the agressive ones sort it out in the first corner. I also like being the hunter, its more of a challenge to me.
So, if you see me on the track, the only reason you may of spin out because of me is becuase of an error in trying to read what the faster will be doing.
Its great to win, but not everyone can be the winner. So I let the leaders go by; anything less is uncouth.
too true this, i say sorry even if i didnt hit someone but got wobbly on exit of a corner or something
If there's one thing I hate, it's taking off another car by accident. So I try to avoid it at all costs, but of course that doesn't always work.
I like battling for position, but when I see a car is coming in from behind at a much higher pace than my own, I usually let it pass without much trouble. I often use my direction lights to sign that I'm staying at one side of the track so he can make a safe pass without confusion. Of course I could try to hold him behind me and defend my position, but what's the point? It will only make the faster driver more angry and in the end force him to do stupid things in which we both may go off.
However, when I see the incoming car is running at more or less the same pace (I'm faster in sector x, the other's faster in sector y) then I like a good fight. But, even though I do look around a lot and try to leave enough room for a fair fight, it frequently happens that I push it a bit too far in the heat of the moment. It's rare I take someone out on the entry of a turn, but it happened more than once I lost control on the exit by stepping too early on the accellerator pedal in the hope to stay ahead. When I'm on the inside it's usually just me spinning, but when I'm on the outside the car slides across the track taking the car on the inside with me.
Of course, it happens the other way around too. But although regrettable, those are just racing incidents.
And some people just choose idiot moments to place an overtaking maneuver. Like in Aston's chicane. With Patch S/T the chicane became a lot easier, but with the previous patch the chicane was quite hard if you pushed. I usually needed every inch of space the chicane offered, but still there were people trying to overtake through the chicane, either forcing me off the track, or both going off.
I like battling for position, but when I see a car is coming in from behind at a much higher pace than my own, I usually let it pass without much trouble. I often use my direction lights to sign that I'm staying at one side of the track so he can make a safe pass without confusion. Of course I could try to hold him behind me and defend my position, but what's the point? It will only make the faster driver more angry and in the end force him to do stupid things in which we both may go off.
However, when I see the incoming car is running at more or less the same pace (I'm faster in sector x, the other's faster in sector y) then I like a good fight. But, even though I do look around a lot and try to leave enough room for a fair fight, it frequently happens that I push it a bit too far in the heat of the moment. It's rare I take someone out on the entry of a turn, but it happened more than once I lost control on the exit by stepping too early on the accellerator pedal in the hope to stay ahead. When I'm on the inside it's usually just me spinning, but when I'm on the outside the car slides across the track taking the car on the inside with me.
Of course, it happens the other way around too. But although regrettable, those are just racing incidents.
And some people just choose idiot moments to place an overtaking maneuver. Like in Aston's chicane. With Patch S/T the chicane became a lot easier, but with the previous patch the chicane was quite hard if you pushed. I usually needed every inch of space the chicane offered, but still there were people trying to overtake through the chicane, either forcing me off the track, or both going off.
Hey, wanted to get your opinions on something else. Yesterday after beating this guy a few times on blackwod with BF1, i was in 2nd right behind him and had pulled up close enough to draft after the first chicane (long back straight). He proceeded to swerve back and forth down the entire straight so that i couldn't pick up a draft. Is it just me, or is this kinda sad and pathetic? I had passed him there in the couple races before so i guess that's how he dealt with it, but it just seems "cheap" to me. Do you guys agree that that's poor racing etiquette?
Well its pretty annoying. He probably really wanted to win, and just didnt want to let you go. It's pretty unrealistic as well. I don't really like that. That was a little tactic on the oval, but I mean, on Blackwood, I dont see that as being very mature. I don't really like that type of stuff. I hope you won though 
I just like to drive around and am not really bothered by racing incidents that happen to me. I've been hit a lot of times and unfortunately I've hit others quite a lot of times. The last is usually just poor control of my own vehicle, because I just suck at LFS 
(slowly improving though :P)
Whatever happens I'll usually say "Sorry, my fault" and don't really care if it really is my fault or not. When I hit someone in any way I probably could have avoided it in any way and could have made that effort.
As for me I like to leave room in corners whenever I expect there might be even a slight overlap. If somebody is behind me and I no longer see him/her directly in my rearview mirror I start driving wider lines, because I expect them to be a little beside me. This is poor position defending, but invites close door to door racing which is fun. I don't care what position I'm driving in at all, just as long as there is someone close to have a bit of a 'race' with I'm happy and smiling through every mistake I make
(slowly improving though :P)Whatever happens I'll usually say "Sorry, my fault" and don't really care if it really is my fault or not. When I hit someone in any way I probably could have avoided it in any way and could have made that effort.
As for me I like to leave room in corners whenever I expect there might be even a slight overlap. If somebody is behind me and I no longer see him/her directly in my rearview mirror I start driving wider lines, because I expect them to be a little beside me. This is poor position defending, but invites close door to door racing which is fun. I don't care what position I'm driving in at all, just as long as there is someone close to have a bit of a 'race' with I'm happy and smiling through every mistake I make
^Same here, i tend to leave too much room for people to pass. I'd rather have a fun race than end up crashing into each other. I've had some surprisingly good races with the bf1 already. Some races i've swapped positions with someone close to 10 times in a relatively short race. Very fun stuff
I do this as well to my own detriment. I'm not aggresive enough sometimes because I want to avoid an accident, so I leave too much room and people pass me easily. Also one problem I find is that if you try to drive very defensively and make your car as wide as possible, people will just try to blast past you anyway and hit you off, so often it's less hassle just to let people pass. Often people decide that they're going to make a pass stick in a corner and don't ease off no matter what you do. I used to race in leagues with clean drivers who were much faster than me, so I learned how to drive very defensively and effectively. But it's hard to find a situation where you can put that sort of skill into practice in LFS. Especially when you race with the mindset of not causing any accidents...
Answering to the original post and noting I haven't read any of the others 
, I think that you'll never get an exact answer to how a race should be raced. It's a matter o common sense and no-one will ever agree fully. Just look at top level motorsport these days, crashes and differences of opinion happen all the time.
You just have to acknowledge a mistake when you know you are in the wrong.
, I think that you'll never get an exact answer to how a race should be raced. It's a matter o common sense and no-one will ever agree fully. Just look at top level motorsport these days, crashes and differences of opinion happen all the time.You just have to acknowledge a mistake when you know you are in the wrong.
This is a major problem in LFS, even in the league i'm in I made a post about it and somebody said that it's fine to do this and what's the problem?
It isn't, technically you are moving to block and then you are moving back to your line, then you are moving to block and then... and so on.
It's illegal in real racing because it's unsafe and unsporting, and in LFS it can be even more dangerous because a missed packet can make your little lateral movement into a full on latent sideswipe.
This little annoyance can be really annoying sometimes because you know that if the other driver was also playing by the rules you'd have got past, but there's no cause for recourse in LFS :/.
You're allowed to block and then you are allowed to return to your line - this actually does give significant leeway already and can stalemate two fairly evenly matched competitors on most tracks, but if you let the driver behind get close enough on the corner that leads to a long strait - you've lost it, fair and square ...
avoiding a draft isn't exactly blocking though, as the other car is much further back, so it gets a little grey there to my mind.
because the guy in the draft is travelling faster it will turn into a block eventually
me personally, i like to let someone use all my draft if he gets a PB from it then thats sweet!
me personally, i like to let someone use all my draft if he gets a PB from it then thats sweet!
He would be disqualified in real racing.
Can someone point me to an example of a rule or incident where someone has been disqualified for swerving to disrupt the slipstream (say 20-30 metres behind - not swerving to physically block the car which if you are infront you can do once, but presumably only comes into effect when the two cars are within a close proximity).
I dont do it anymore in LFS because I think most accept it is unsporting and specifically not allowed in some leagues but is there actually a rule against it in real-life?
I dont do it anymore in LFS because I think most accept it is unsporting and specifically not allowed in some leagues but is there actually a rule against it in real-life?
Yes. I don't think the rule is very old though, not shure.
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race etiquet ?
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